#305: Chef Kevin McGee - How He Went From Making Bank Deals to Plant Meals
What if your next meal could change a life—starting with your own?
Rip sits down with Chef Kevin McGee, a 25-year veteran of plant-based living and the visionary behind the Urban Oak Initiative. From his Missouri roots and a former career in investment banking, to leading a nonprofit centered on food justice, Kevin shares a moving personal and professional journey grounded in compassion, health, and cultural heritage.
Listeners will hear how Kevin’s childhood influences—especially his mother and grandmother—shaped his culinary philosophy.
And you’ll hear a very personal story—how his daughter’s battle with cancer became a turning point in his life, igniting a new level of purpose that fuels everything he does today.
This episode is a masterclass in how food can nourish not just our bodies, but our spirits and communities as well. So grab a seat at the table—Chef Kevin is serving up something truly special.
Key Takeaways:
From Wall Street to the Kitchen: Kevin reflects on leaving investment banking to follow his passion for food, driven by values of compassion, connection, and service.
Family Roots and Culinary Inspiration: His grandmother’s cooking instilled a love for wholesome food and laid the groundwork for his approach to plant-based cuisine.
Urban Oak Initiative in Action:
Kids Can Cook: Empowering children with plant-based cooking skills and healthy eating habits.
Plants Over Pills: A food-as-medicine program aimed at improving seniors’ health through nutritious meals.
Making Plant-Based Culturally Relevant: Kevin discusses how he reimagines soul food and traditional dishes to bridge the gap between heritage and health.
A Personal Catalyst: Kevin shares how his daughter’s cancer diagnosis fueled his deeper commitment to health equity and community food education.
Food, Mood, and Energy: "We are what we eat"—Kevin dives into the connection between diet, mood, and well-being, and how this insight shapes his culinary work.
Looking Ahead: The vision for a 100% plant-based commercial kitchen that supports aspiring chefs and food entrepreneurs from underserved communities.
Visit the Urban Oak Initiative
About Chef Kevin McGee
Chef Kevin R. McGee, a.k.a. "Chef Kev." is the third-generation to advocate for his family founded nonprofit, The Urban Oak Initiative.
As an innovative and experienced chef who focuses on plant-based foods, he strives to educate people on plant-based eating in a non-judgemental fashion. For more than 25-years, he has helped people achieve their health, wellness and lifestyle goals using the Earth’s greatest gift…FOOD.
He believes that everyone has the right to eat healthy, wholesome and nourishing food. As a society, we should advocate for food justice and equity, particularly in communities of color - many of which still lack access to food education and fresh, healthy food. He is on a mission to change that.
Episode Resources
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Full Episode Transcription via AI Transcription Service
I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
What if Your Next Meal Could Change a Life?
[0:05] What if your next meal could change a life starting with your own? Today, you're going to meet Chef Kevin McGee, who traded investment banking for plant-based cooking to improve the health of his family and his community. His story is coming up right after these words from PLANTSTRONG.
[0:28] One of my favorite things about the PLANTSTRONG podcast is getting to highlight and celebrate the people who are living proof that your plate has the power to transform your health, your community, and the planet. My guest today is someone who is doing just that and then some. Chef Kevin McGee, he's not just a master of plant-based flavor. He's a food justice warrior, a teacher, a visionary, and the beating heart behind the Urban Oak Initiative. For over 25 years, Kevin has been walking the plant-strong path, but his journey to the kitchen wasn't a straight line.
[1:14] He started out in the high-stakes world of investment banking, but it was his deep-rooted family values, like compassion, connection, and culture that ultimately pulled him towards his true calling, empowering others through food. In this conversation, we talk about everything from Kevin's Missouri upbringing and his grandmother's soulful influence to the powerful programs that he's built, like Kids Can Cook and Plants Over Pills that are making plant-based living accessible, joyful, and deeply relevant to the underserved communities. And you're going to hear a very personal story, how Kevin's daughter's battle with cancer became a turning point in his life, igniting a new level of purpose that fuels everything that he does today. This episode is a masterclass in how food can nourish not just our bodies, but our spirits and communities as well. So grab a seat at the table.
Meet Chef Kevin McGee
[2:21] Chef Kevin is serving up something truly special.
[2:28] Chef Kevin McGee, welcome to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. It's a pleasure to have you. Hey, it is awesome to be here, Rip. Good to meet you. Nice to meet you. So if I'm not mistaken, you, my man, have been plant-based for around 25 years. Is that right? Yes, we have. We've had some falling off the wagon here and there, but we got back on, and so now we're 100% plant-based and advocating for plant-based eating as well 100% of the time. I know you are, and I can't wait to dive in and hear all about the advocacy work that you guys are doing. Now, when you say we, who's we? Is that your family? What is that? So we would be Urban Oak Initiative that does the advocacy. That's a nonprofit that my grandmother started many, many years ago. Yeah. Well, and she and your mother and you, amazing people, and we're going to dive into that. But before we do, though, I'd love to know just, so where am I talking to you right now? What city are you in? So right now, I'm actually in Athens, Georgia. I live in Atlanta, Georgia. But at this moment, I'm in Athens, Georgia at what they call a flavor of the South. So it's like a value-added food producers conference. So I'm also in work mode as soon as I jump off the call here. Right. What are you going to be doing there? So we have a program that we run with the nonprofit where we work with aspiring plant-based food entrepreneurs.
[3:55] These are individuals who make things like jams and jellies and sauces. And so we're helping them bring your products to market. So this particular event is like a marketing event for several product companies across Georgia that may or may not be plant-based. But we're trying to bring them here to get some additional information so that we can kind of have their plant-based products on the shelves now alongside everyone else's. Right. So I'd love to dive into some of your background. Yeah. You grew up in Missouri.
From Investment Banking to Culinary Arts
[4:23] Yeah. Yeah. Middle of Missouri, middle of somewhere. So a big agriculture town. So what they would call the heartland of Missouri. So you can imagine just thousands of acres of just flat fields and they grow a lot of the agribusiness crops, soybeans, flax, rice, you know, a lot of things, you know, like we're talking barges, you know, taking out the grains and things like that. that. So very, very heavy agriculture. So I grew up in a very agricultural background. Wow.
[4:51] And what did your... Your, your, your parents do for, you know, to, to make, to make money where you got average, poor, rich. Yeah. Yeah. You guys definitely rich in spirit, you know, rich, rich in spirit, rich, rich in values. Uh, but definitely, you know, many, most people in that part of the country, you know, a lot of your rural areas, you know, do struggle from, you know, uh, you know, lack of resources, poverty, things like that. Uh, my parents, my mother, uh, went to law school, was a state legislator for many years. My father worked for the school system down there. Now he's retired and does his own thing. So, you know, they were able to make, you know, some great decisions and I ultimately, you know, relocated from there. We left Missouri, a small town in Missouri, moved to Kansas City, Missouri. And that's where I spent most of my, my, my, my young adult years. All right. Uh, and, and so did you, um, did you go to college? Oh, definitely. Yes. I came to Atlanta. I found my way to Atlanta by way of Morehouse College. So I went to Morehouse. I majored in banking and finance. I was going to be a Wall Street raider at that time. I think that was the early 90s. So that was the greed is good, Wall Street movies, those types of things. So I wanted to be a financier. So I thought, spent a little time in the investment banking area on Wall Street and quickly found out that some of my core values of, you know, honesty, love, connection.
[6:17] You know, compassion didn't necessarily align too much with investment banking at that time. So I quickly made a pivot myself and ended up in the hospitality industry and
The Influence of Family Values
[6:26] started down this path and becoming a hospitality professional. Ultimately became a certified executive chef, owned a number of restaurants and catered facilities, and now transitioned over to still maintaining that chef role. But now we educate people in the community and provide plant-based foods as a way to help them address things like health equity, food disparities, and health issues as well.
[6:47] Well, you just said a lot there in a very, very short period of time. So I want to backtrack for a second. Yeah, let's not pack it. You and Gordon Gekko didn't quite see eye to eye on certain things, right? But so how long were you in the finance banking world before you were like, you know what? This just doesn't, I mean, did you know on day one, but it took you five years or?
[7:12] It probably, I knew on day one, it probably took me six months. You know i'm not one to stay in a place where i don't really really really find myself resonating or aligning with so i made a quick move out of there yeah good for you yeah yeah okay and then uh and so you went so have you have you always had a love for like food and cooking uh is that what i mean it at some point like six months in you're like okay this isn't that and then is that when you immediately made the pivot and you're like, okay, my passion is food and I'm going to do something in this arena? Yeah. So I think I immediately made the pivot. I started doing some work in the nonprofit sector, working with farmers, agriculture farmers, helping them do things like get business loans, business finance. So I found a nice hybrid of the two where I was using, I was using what I had learned, but I was using it to kind of help, you know, the food system at that time. What would later be known as a food system. I thought I was just sort of helping farmers you know, get loans to do crops and things like that. But I believe that along with some of the other exposure that I had to different types of cuisines in the early years of my career, you know, largely what made me be focused more on, you know, cooking and the culinary aspects.
[8:28] You said there that some of the values didn't align with yours, namely like love, compassion, honesty. Those are i think like foundational core traits that right more people really should embrace definitely where did you learn those those qualities so i think the same thing so you know my grandmother uh played a big big role in my development growing up uh she raised me a lot along with my mother and my father from a really small country town only 2 000 people where Everybody knows you. So there's always a sense of accountability no matter where you go. The closest major town was Memphis, which was like an hour and a half. So, you know, that type of environment, you do kind of form those core values around just, you know, compassion, honesty, because you can't go too far if you're not honest.
[9:24] Our town is pretty small, so you can't, you know, you can't, you go to the next town over, but it's like five miles. So, you know, word travels fast in small town. So you have to really be accountable for yourself and reputation still mean a lot in that part of the country as well. Yeah. So how close were you to your grandmother?
[9:44] Oh, exceptionally close, you know, so much so, uh, uh, you know, she started the nonprofit back in 1997 that I now run today in Atlanta.
[9:53] Uh, and so, you know, a very major influence in my life. And I think, you know, looking back on it, one of the major influences was around food, you know, while she was not plant-based, that was a foreign term to her, you know, 40, 50 years ago. So, you know, our table was always fresh greens out the garden, beans, peas, you know, everything had some freshly sliced tomatoes, cucumbers, things like that. You know, maybe a small piece of meat is seasoning or something like that, but never, ever, you know, meat heavy. I remember distinctly, even when we would go to the hamburger stand, you know, 50 something years ago, she would say, hey, make sure you get extra lettuce and tomato on there. That was kind of her version of making sure you get, it was all,
The Journey to Plant-Based Living
[10:35] you know, emphasis was always on adding more vegetables to the plate. So I thank her for that. I think that's kind of what started me in this past so many years ago.
[10:44] Yeah. Well, and her name, because I love her name, Robbie. Yes. Yes. Robbie Towns. towns and um it sounds like she started that non-profit originally to kind of help um provide emergency assistance to families that were you know going through some really really hard times i mean what what kind of a person starts a non-profit for people that are you know very very special people definitely and so i think that speaks volumes about you know who she was a human being thank you for that yeah yeah and then obviously it sounds like your mom her daughter was able to carry that torch and yes as you said was a legislature legislature in the legislature and.
[11:27] Pretty amazing in her own right if I'm not mistaken here well or maybe you can tell me like she she, carried that torch with the nonprofit? And what were some of the initiatives that she started in the town you grew up in? Yeah. So they were always focused around youth and their families. So one of the most popular ones would be giving out the common food baskets throughout the year. So a lot of her work was always focused on food.
[11:57] Again, she wasn't plant-based, but was always focused on the importance of food. And I think that's something that we're missing today. You know, she really saw food as something important. She was really focused on health. She quickly said, Hey, you know, you, you're looking a little, you know, you look like you might be putting on a couple of pounds, you know, and it, and it wasn't with the body shaming type of thing that we hear about today. It was just her way of saying, Hey, I'm observing that, you know, maybe you're not eating, you know, eating, eating well, or maybe you need too much, you know, too much processed stuff or too much cookies, candies or cake, but she's always been very focused on, you know, food and health. All right. So 25 plus years ago, you kind of went down the plant-based path. Was there a trigger for you? They kind of got you thinking, you know, maybe I don't need all this meat and dairy.
[12:44] You know, it's interesting. I just started down the culinary path at the same time. And so I was working at a lot of different restaurants. I was working at soul food spots and pizza spots, just trying to get experience in the culinary profession because I didn't have any with an investment banking or finance background. Uh and my roommate at the time was sort of flirting around with the idea of becoming plant-based itself and he brought home some different meat substitutes and some spaghettis and some different things uh being a chef aspiring chef at foodie i just loved any type of food you know vegetables non-vegetables and i and i tasted it and i was like texture was kind of kind of different you know intriguing i was like oh this is kind of interesting it tasted pretty good But and so literally that was the thing that started me on this path. And probably within, I'd say, maybe two or three months of sampling that food, I went from eating, you know, pretty much, you know, everything in terms of meat. I just I just became vegan and I was, you know, vegan.
[13:41] The next, like five, six years, just like that. I've been kind of extreme, extreme dude, you know, so kind of loving to take it type of thing. So, you know, and then I think after the first year, I really began to notice the health benefits. You know, I used to suffer a lot from things like strep throats, chronic colds, you know, kind of issues. And so when I saw that, you know, those were happening, then more importantly, other people were saying, Hey, you know, I noticed, you know,
A Life-Changing Moment
[14:06] you're not, you know, get sick like you used to, and this isn't happening. And I was like, yeah, you know, works for me. You know, after that, I was, I was pretty much sold. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and the fact that, you know, your values are rooted, it sounds like in, you know, love, compassion, um, honesty, I can't think of a better lifestyle to basically align that with than being, you know, vegan slash, you know, plant, plant. Definitely. Perfect. I'd agree. I'd agree. Totally. Rip. Totally. Yeah. And I love the fact that, that you're extreme. I mean, I love, I love extreme people, right? People like to sink their teeth into things and they don't, they don't take the, you know, the average path. I love extremes. Yeah. Yeah. I got to take the extreme, you know, got to take it. So you're, so, um.
[15:00] Your chef's philosophy, I went to your, you know, your website and it basically says eat period, live period, love period. Can you just tell me a little bit about each one of those?
[15:12] You know, I think, um, you know, I think eating is always first, right. You know, even, you know, when we, when we first come out the womb, you know, we're crying primarily one because we have got smacked on the back, but we're hungry. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's kind of the first thing, you know, we want to eat as soon as we get out. So I think, you know, eating is one of the most important things that we can do. You know, eating, it creates our cells, you know, the cells create the organs of the tissue. So, you know, eating is always first. And I think, you know, how you eat determines largely how you live and your quality of life, you know, your ability to live. And then that ability to live and how much you live ultimately, I think, correlates to how much you end up loving other people. Right. You know, so a lot of people, not a lot, well, some people who are maybe suffering from illnesses. I know some people in my family and other people that I know that tend to suffer from illnesses, uh, sometimes they're not the most loving people, you know, you know, sometimes it's probably hard when you're in pain. Yeah. When you're up, exactly, exactly. You know, when you're in pain, you know, it's hard to really kind of be expressive of how you feel in or smiling or happy. You know, if you're in a great amount of pain, I had a friend of mine, I was on a board, uh, I was chair of a board and every time I got on the call, he was just always on my, on my behind, like always an issue. You're doing this wrong. You're doing that wrong. And I was like,
Chef's Philosophy on Eating
[16:28] what is wrong with this guy? Maybe a year or so later, you kind of confided in me that during that time, he was on a lot of medication and he wasn't even really in control.
[16:37] You know, of, of kind of how he was presenting himself. So, you know, I think, you know, we have to really look at what we need and, and understand that it influences ultimately, you know, how we live and how we love. Well, you know.
[16:48] Yes. And I also noticed on your Instagram channel, you had a post, I don't know when, sometime in the last year or so, but it was a woman and she was talking about eating basically animals and eating death and just the vibrations that they kind of go through the body. And do you want to have that death and pain and suffering and those vibrations going through you? I thought it was, I'd never heard it expressed that way before. And I, and it, I thought it was really powerful. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, it's, it's, it's interesting. Uh, I'm also, uh, you know, I do, do some yoga, some low yogi as well, you know, kind of with the whole goes with the whole plant-based, plant-based vibe. You know, you got to take, like I said, you know, it's all or nothing, Rip, you know, so I'm either going to go all the way over here, tree hugger, you know, I'm going to be over here.
[17:38] But I think, you know, part of that is, you know, you know, science is science, right? Everything is vibrating, right? That is a law that, I mean, you know, you can't really deny that. So that means that everything is vibrating, you know, until it's dead, you know, right? So I think, you know, eating more living things and things that are really going to promote health and life are better. You know, I don't really, I'm not a, I don't call, I'm not a judgmental plant-based person or vegan person. And, you know, I let everyone find their own path, but, you know, I do think if you kind of look at it, you know, you, you definitely, you feel better when you eat things that are better for you, that are living things and promotes life in your body. And, uh, you know, you, you look better, sound better and everything, everything's just better when you eat living foods, you know.
The Impact of Intermittent Fasting
[18:21] So I can't really explain it. Nobody's yeah no no no amen yeah um in 2015 your 12 year old daughter was diagnosed with a form of kidney cancer and you say that.
[18:35] Through this experience, you discovered who you really were. Can you, I'd love to hear more about that. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody, so, you know, very, you know, uh, uh, interesting journey, you know, I won't call it unfortunate because I think everything that happens to us, you know, has purpose, has meaning.
[18:53] Uh, and I think when something like that happens to a family in particular, that everyone involved, uh, in that has something that they can get out of that. There's a learning lesson in that for everyone. And for me, you know, that learning lesson was really beginning to focus a lot more on the advocacy piece that we had talked about you know prior to that uh when i was a chef in my early years i wasn't a vegan chef i was just a chef you know that was the job i had i cooked you know meat and other things you know for people that was my job you know so uh but but but after that event that kind of really made me a little bit more focused uh on the health of other people and the health of others and so then i really switched my direction and started to do more around advocacy around plant-based eating and healthier eating. And that was around the time also that I began to flirt with the idea of kind of taking on my grandmother's nonprofit or that time my mother's non-profit and taking it to the next level. So yeah, definitely, definitely, you know, interesting experience. I like to always give that to my daughter because that's really a big part of her story, you know, and so I think that, you know, But for me, though, it was really just a learning lesson about, you know, how I can be more focused on doing things to kind of add more to the conversation around health and wellness and eating well. Yeah. And so I assume, how is your daughter doing? Oh, she's graduating this in a couple of weeks.
[20:21] She's 22. She's a special education teacher, which is what I call exceptional education teacher, which is amazing. She's going to have her master's at 22 in special education. And that really has come from her journey, you know, as a result of her journey and being around so many other children who had some issues, different challenges and, you know, things like bullying and being sort of marginalized. It really put a fire in her and her spirit to go out there and help, you know, other young people who are having challenges, you know, around autism or special education or special needs. And so she truly excels at that. She truly excels at that. So, and so is she cancer-free at this point? Definitely. Yeah. Yes, she is. Indeed. Indeed. Is she, is she also plant-based? She's somewhat, you know, somewhat, you know, she, she, she, she's not a hundred percent there, but, uh, that's how they grew up and they do have a very good knowledge of health. You know, she juices a lot, a lot of juicing. So, you know, like I said, you know, you let people take their path and, you know, you, uh, just do what you can. She knows the plant-based way and the vegan way, so maybe one day she'll return to that path, but she definitely has the knowledge to do so. Yeah. No, I... I'll bet you dollars to donuts that she comes back to that. Oh, yeah. Maybe dollars to bacon and kale. Right, dollars to kale, right.
[21:46] So you were a chef. You cooked with everything imaginable. And now you're pretty much, when you cook, it's exclusively plants. What did you find is the biggest difference between cooking meat and, you know, using animal products versus taking them out as a chef. Is it more challenging, less challenging?
[22:13] You know, I think it is more challenging. It's a little more time intensive to get the textures and the vegan items to be more palatable to people who don't eat meat. Yeah. You know, I think one of my goals is you obviously want to, you know, create things for people who are plant-based. But I think, you know, my goal, and I'd maybe say even, you know, part of your goal, too, is, you know, to convert people, you know, to kind of get people to come over to this side. And so in order for them to do that, the food does have to taste, has to taste good. It has to have the same texture, you know, the flavor profiles and things like that. And so in order to get it to that, it's a little bit more work. I'll give you kind of a specific example. So, you know, dealing with, you know, vegan proteins, whether it's tofu or jackfruit or, you know, whole foods, you know, zucchini squash. Gosh, typically in cooking with meat-based proteins, we're trying to put more moisture in, right? So you're trying to do stuff to keep the chicken moist. You're trying to keep the beef moist, right? Because it'll dry out. Yeah. With plant-based food, it's the reverse in terms of texture. You're trying to pull moisture out of the tofu so that it's a little hard to chew. You're trying to pull the moisture out of the jackfruit so that it chews a little bit tougher. It has that kind of bite that people want. So I think that's probably the biggest
Cooking Techniques and Textures
[23:31] change is just working with the textures and the flavor profiles. But once you get the texture down, you know, as you as you know.
[23:38] You know, flavors, flavor, whether it's on tofu or a piece of chicken or, you know, tempeh or, you know, whatever, even kale, you know, flavors, flavor. We have to get that texture right. It's really interesting. So the way you describe that, I've never heard that described that way before with, you know, with the meat. And the animal products, you're always basically trying to make sure it doesn't get too dry, right? Yeah. With the plant-based products, you're basically trying to many times dry it out. And to me, the best example that I can think of is like mushrooms. Like I can't, I'm really not a huge fan of portobello mushrooms or mushrooms in general. Me either.
[24:15] But when you can like really get the moisture out of them and get them dried out and get the texture just right. And, you know, I don't know if you know who Derek Sarnow is, but he's like the, anyway, he's, he just loves mushrooms and cooking with mushrooms and every kind of mushroom you can have. Derek Sono. What is that? Derek Sono. Derek and Chad Sarnow. They started Wicked Healthy back in the day. And I worked with them at Whole Foods, but they are hardcore, you know, plant-based chefs. I checked them out. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so that's, that's really cool. And speaking of mushrooms, I'm looking forward to getting some of your mushroom burgers. I order a little bundle. Oh, I want to show them there. So we're going to see. I'm going to taste that. I got some broths. I got a few burgers. I got some other stuff. So I'm really excited. I think my order shipped today. So I'm really excited to try those out.
[25:10] Funny story. As a chef, you're always looking for good things to eat that other people have cooked. Yeah. Because you get kind of tired of cooking all your time and eating your own food all the time. So I'm excited to try those. Well, I'd love to know. like so, What are some of the favorite, your favorite meals that you make kind of consistently for, maybe you can give me an example of something for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
[25:34] So I typically don't do a lot of breakfast. You know, I'm pretty light on breakfast. Smoothie, I keep it real simple for breakfast first. So I do,
Favorite Meals and Ingredients
[25:41] I have an amazing blueberry smoothie that I do that has pretty much everything. Blueberries, uh, hemp seeds, uh, plant-based milk, a little bit of maple syrup, uh, sunflower seed. I mean, I just pretty much just dump everything in there with a little bit of cacao, well, cacao powder. And that gets me going most of the day, uh, lunch. I typically do maybe a salad. I'm a big fan of Mediterranean food. Typically when I'm doing like cold dishes, like salad. So I may do a salad with some falafels, some hummus, some olives. I did for dinner. I'd probably do. I love Asian cuisine you know asian cuisine is very pretty very vegan friendly yeah so so anything japanese, vietnamese chinese you know i'm a fan so you know typically do maybe a nice veggie stir fry with maybe some tofu or or not or any rice or noodles and that's pretty much it for me i tend to keep it pretty simple what do you what do you prefer tofu or tempeh tofu but you know i've never i've never kind of gotten too much into tempeh uh i just couldn't get past this the texture of the beans just didn't it just didn't yeah the tempeh is kind of like love it or hate it from what i've seen with most people now i do like tempeh bacon when people do a good tempeh bacon that tends to be pretty pretty good but with my tofu i dry it out a lot so it takes pretty has a pretty meaty consistency you got a favorite bean.
[27:02] Black. Black beans. Black beans. Yeah, I love black beans. Black beans are very good. What about, you got a favorite green leafy vegetable?
[27:13] You know, pretty much all of them. You know, I mean, kale is great. You know, kale is everywhere. Right now, I think I'm doing a lot of arugula.
[27:21] Arugula is really good. Really good. It's quick. It's quick. It doesn't take a whole lot of time. If you want a cookie, you can put it in a soup. You can eat it raw. So I tend to eat a lot of arugula. I like a lot of butter lettuces. Uh so a lot of you know more of the the lighter living lettuces yeah i i noticed that uh i think it was new year's you on on your instagram channel you've got a looks like an amazing maple glazed collard greens oh yeah those are good yeah those are those you know those are award-winning rip we might we might freeze some of those and ship them to you but that's that's that's a grandmother harness so my grandmother always had a pot of green that was kind of her thing you know she always had a pot of literally it was always a pot of greens and some cornbread hot water cornbread on the stove like 24 hours a day and so anyone that would come through there was always at least some greens and cornbread and so it's interesting that's one of the staples that we do now at all of our events for urban oak the non-profit like at every event there's always a pot of collard greens cornbread for anybody who wants to grab something to eat so yeah what what about, uh, black eyed peas? You like black eyed peas?
[28:26] They're good. They're good. Yeah. I love black eyed peas. They're good. Yeah. They seem like they're also kind of a new year's deal as well. Oh, definitely. Definitely. Definitely. I think, you know, they're new years, all years, uh, you know, a lot of, a lot of, a lot of history behind them. Really cheap, you know, full of protein, you know, very, very unique flavor profile on them. Yeah. So yeah. What, um, what about, do you have a favorite potato?
[28:52] Uh, you know, it should be sweet potato, right? Because they're a little bit better for you. You're saying it's not, but it's not, you know, I like the little small Yukon gold, you know, Yukon gold is a good potato. You know, they make great smash potatoes. You can, you know, smash them. You can fry them. So I think Yukon gold is probably,
Advocating for Food Justice
[29:12] you know, one of my favorite potatoes. I mean, I like, I do the purple potatoes on occasion, you know, the heirloom varieties, but you know, you can't beat a really good, a good Yukon gold potato, I think. Yeah. Yeah. You, uh, I saw that you are not a fan, huge fan of eating while you're eating. I'm sorry, drinking while you're eating, right? During mealtime. And I thought that was really, really interesting what you had to say. So can you share with people that maybe tend to maybe get bloated and some other things after eating, why you're not a fan of drinking during mealtime?
[29:49] I think the primary purpose when you eat is to digest the food and the food assimilates to kind of fuel all the functions of the body. We're not eating for pleasure, unfortunately. Sometimes that's not the ultimate purpose. So your stomach has acids that are designed to digest your food and assimilate it. And so when you drink water or any liquid prior to eating, it dilutes the acid. And so it just kind of takes a little bit longer for the food to digest. The longer that it sits there it just sort of for lack of a better word it's kind of slowly ferments and that creates the gas that's giving us giving off of the food that that kind of helps creating a bloating uh that you're feeling so a lot of times if you just take you know a few minutes and maybe stop drinking 30 30 to 40 minutes before you eat and wait 30 to 40 minutes after you eat a lot of that bloating will often alleviate and leave your system and you have a Much better experience with your food, I think. Yeah. It's so funny because I...
[30:49] Back in the day, I used to date a woman from Hungary, and she said, you never want to drink while you're eating. And she told me why, you know. And so this is the second time that I've heard that. And it's interesting because I'm always like down in the water while I'm eating. And so I think I'm going to take your message to heart and give that a try. Yeah. You know, I will say this, though. So it's a little easier, or should I say a little less damaging when you're plant-based though? Like everything's a little bit better when you're plant-based, right? So like everything that might normally affect you, you know, if you eat meat, it's a little bit better when you're plant-based. When you're plant-based and you drink water, it's a little better because it's still getting out a lot quicker anyway, right? Because your body's still digesting that plant fiber a lot quicker than it is that meat protein. So I think you're good there. Yeah. Yeah. So I recently saw that you're doing a lot with intermittent fasting. And if I'm not mistaken, did you also write a book on it? Not a book. We have a little e-book that we give away on Instagram.
[31:59] So tell the Plant Strong audience, what are your thoughts on intermittent fasting? So I think intermittent fasting and fasting in general is really, really, really good for the body. I'm not a medical professional. right so we give the disclaimer you know i'm not a medical professional but you know again we talked about digesting food and so a lot of people don't know but digesting food requires the most energy of your body right so your body spends a lot of time and a lot of energy digesting your food so if if during certain periods of time you can give your body just a little break it now can divert some of that energy to doing some other things like repairing some things maybe fixing up some cells.
[32:39] You know, taking care of some issues that you're having. And so when you do intermittent fasting, that's what it allows it to do. You know, you allow your body a set amount of time, you know, to sort of, you know, repair itself. You know, there are a lot of different ways you could do intermittent fasting. Some people do, you know, one day a week and then eat the other, you know, six days or they do, you know, eat during an eight hour window and then they don't eat for 16 hours. But the bottom line is whenever you do fast, it's really just, It's less about not eating and more about helping your body divert some of that energy to doing some more critical functions that you may need at the time. You know, what's really interesting about that is when you think about it, when you do get sick with the flu or something like that, your appetite typically goes completely away. It does. It's your body's way of saying, you know what, we're going to put everything into making you better. Yep. And you're not going to eat because that's going to basically interfere with that process. Definitely. And you most definitely don't want to eat some chicken noodle soup. So we're just later.
[33:40] Chicken noodle soup for the soul. Yeah, yeah. You know, maybe some broth. Do like some veggie broth. Do something real simple. But like, you know, let's hold off on the chicken. Sure. You're a hundred percent white, a hundred percent white, but that is your body to saying, Hey, you know, let's, let's use that energy elsewhere. And so, uh, you recently went on a 72 hour fast. I was, how was that experience? That was amazing. Well, you know, I'd never done that before. I mean, I've done like 24 hour fast. That's no big deal, but I'd never done the 72 and, you know, much to my surprise after the first two days, the third day, my energy level was through the roof. I mean, like I was, I was, I was in a gym. I was bench pressing. I was, I was curling, you know, I had some friends. It was like, man, wow, you look great. You're like glowing, you know? And I was, I was really shocked myself, you know, but I think again, it's that, you know, that notion of, uh, you know, your body just had a chance to just kind of fix everything and repair it, you know? And I didn't do a complete best time. I was drinking juice, right? I mean, I was drinking like fruit juice, so I was still getting nutrients and vitamins and a small amount of protein, you know, so I wasn't just, you know, not eating anything, but yeah, it was, it was a surprise for me. You know, I was, I was pleasantly surprised. First time that you've done that? It was, it was the first time that I've done it. I'm actually getting ready to do another one, maybe in another, another, another couple of weeks. It was so successful, but yeah, it was, it was amazing. I've never, I've never felt that much energy. You know, my brain was a lot clearer.
[35:04] My inflammation, you know, was, was down, you know, so I think it's kind of back to the same thing, uh, literally my body had three days to kind of fix stuff, you know, so it didn't have to, you know, you know, digest food, you know, for three days. So it said, Hey, you know, we're just, I have a thing to do. I guess we'll just fix this over here and we'll fix the inflammation and we'll take care of this. Yeah. It was an amazing experience. Yeah. Super interesting. Have you ever heard of true North health center in Santa Rosa, of california i have not it's a uh water only fasting um facility and they've been around for over 40 years and people fast anywhere from.
[35:45] Basically, two days to some people up to 40 days. Wow. And it's medically supervised. And you're there at the clinic. But anyway, it's pretty darn amazing. And a lot of amazing doctors are affiliated with that. Dr. Clapper used to work there. John McDougal did some stuff there. Dr. Doug Lyle, Dr. Alan Goldhammer, just a lot of rock stars. A lot of legends in the game. And you threw out some big names there, Riff. Those are some giants. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
[36:22] So you say, you love to say that we are what we eat. And you have an Instagram post where you show people your thumb and this horrendous break. And it looks like it's just, it looks like hamburgers. It's mangled. Yeah, it's mangled. And then like a year later, it looks just as good as the other side. And I would have bet that it would have been, you would have been disfigured forever. Me too. And I'm sure you're a doctor too. So can you show us both your thumbs and tell me like what you attribute that success to? So incredible. I was there, you know, they're both the same. Yeah. You know, I definitely, I attribute it to diet, Rip. A hundred percent. You know, the breaks, for those of you who don't want to see it, but if you go to the face, you can see it. But, I mean, it was horrendous. Like, I was scared. I was in ambulance. I mean, every doctor that came, I saw three or four different doctors in a span of about, like, 20 minutes. And everyone that came in said, hey, I'll be right back. Let me go get somebody. How did you break it?
[37:31] I like to tell people I was doing something like, you know, jumping off a mountain. Or, you know, I come up with these amazing stories. And you're like, oh my God, that's amazing. I saved a pit bull. I saved a kid from a pit bull. I stuck my hand out there. You're so amazing. But in all actuality, Rip, I was walking out of a door. I was carrying a couple of tables. We had an event and I was carrying some tables and I like tripped on my shoelace.
[37:54] It was just a freak accident. And somehow my thumb hit the concrete at the exact correct angle. It pulled off the nail. It pulled off all of the nail bed. I mean, it was tough. It was tough. and you had to go through some surgeries too. Yeah, I did. I had, yeah, I had surgery on a thumb they put in, you know, he redid the thumb and everything. And, uh, it, even now it's still tingles, you know, a little bit. So it's still healing, but, I will say it was amazing to watch it just kind of rebuild and regrow and like the nail to grow. And just it was because it was a year long process. The doctor said, hey, it's going to be like a year before the nail grows. So, you know, as adults, you know, we've never seen our, you know, we never see ourselves grow. Right. You never seen your thumb or your nail because we're grown, you know what I'm saying? So you never see it grow. So like to see something grow back slowly, it was just a very amazing experience. And so with the, you know, the plant-based diet and the other things that I was doing, you know, I definitely feel it was, you know, as a result of, of like, you know, what I ate, you know, like I said, you know, you know, you are what you need, you know, the quality of what you're putting into your body determines everything, everything. Yeah. Yeah. I want to pivot right now to talk a little bit more about the Urban Oak Initiative, which is your 501c3. Has it always been called that or did you rename it when you took it over? So I renamed it. It was originally called Helping Hand Ministries.
[39:23] It was kind of more church. It was church focused when my grandmother first started. That was kind of the institution in the town where they were at. So it was Urban Oak. I mean, it was Helping Hand ministries and then in 2019 i believe we transferred it to georgia registered the name is urban oak initiative and urban oak is stands for urban we're primarily in urban areas uh you know economically challenged areas of oak uh for oak tree that still stands in my grandmother's yard today that was kind of planned it was planted at around the time that i was i was kind of coming to the earth like you know when i was like three or four was planted so i said hey let's go with that. And our logo is a tree, is an oak tree, uh, you know, with a, it's an oak tree with, it looks like it's a fist, but it's a play on words because it's really not a fist. It's, it's a hand with a seed, right? You know? So, so we try to try to play on that and plant those seeds and really plant seeds for the future with the nonprofit. Yeah.
[40:19] So I want to just let everybody know. So your mission is to feed the people. You have a quote in there saying, I believe that everyone has a right to eat healthy, wholesome, and nourishing food. As a society, we should advocate for food justice and equity, particularly in communities of color. I'd love to know some of the initiatives that you're doing right now with your Urban Oak nonprofit and ways that we, the listener of the Plant Strong podcast.
[40:52] Can get involved, support, donate, all those things. Definitely. Well, your number one will be just kind of going to the website, and I think you ought to share that on the platform afterwards. But we have three specific programs. One is called Kids Can Cook. And that is a program where we go into community centers and schools and we show young people how to cook plant-based food. We're not taking them to culinary school. So it is just kind of like basic, you know, how to use an air fryer, how to use a hot pot, you know, how to make smoothies, how to do salads and things like that. And so that is Kids Can Cook. The second program is called... And that, Kev, is for children of 12 to 18? Is there an age range? Primary, like, you know, that's like 8 to 16 range. Okay. Elementary, middle, and early high school, you know, when they're forming those eating patterns, you know, the kids can cook. And then the second one is, we recently renamed this one, but it's called, the second one is Plants Over Pills. And that is a food is medicine initiative that we do targeted towards seniors and just kind of the community in general, where we do client-based pop-ups, plant-based outreach and provide information about the benefits of plant-based eating and give people a way to sample what we call culturally relevant foods. You know, and then the last one is the.
[42:12] Foodpreneur program that we operate in Atlanta, where we are building the nation's first 100% plant-based commercial kitchen that will serve as a place where other small plant-based businesses can come in and create their food products and then be able to sell them or give them away throughout the community. So what we've tried to do, Rip, is create just a little ecosystem of support for the young people with the plant-based food, the seniors are then being able to have you know, products and entrepreneurship around plant-based, uh, eating as well. And it's been going really, really well. Uh, you know, and the other thing I'll say is I think, you know, as we kind of embrace this plant-based,
Urban Oak Initiative's Mission
[42:52] that that term kind of culturally relevant is important, right? Because everybody, every culture eats differently, you know, you ask me what was my favorite food, Chinese, Mediterranean, Asian or whatever. So, you know, I think that's one of the things, you know, uh, we as chefs and plant-based people can do more of is really, you know, making things more appropriate uh you know a lot of people in our communities they don't really jive too well with hummus right now you know that's not a common texture profile for us you know so you know we have to go with the collard greens or the black eyed peas and find unique and creative ways.
[43:22] Uh to introduce those to people uh so that they like it because the bottom line riff is you know whether you know you know if if if you want people to be more plant-based you know people are going to eat food that doesn't taste good you know no matter but somebody you know you you know you all have food products and so you know if they don't taste good you know it has to it has the flavor has to be there rip you know we try to do that and everything that we do is keep that flavor in there oh yeah otherwise i can have a repeat repeat customer exactly yeah um that's really i i love the way you've kind of broken up, Uh, you know, the, the nonprofit, you got the, the kids can cook, you got the plants over pills for, you know, the older people. I think your Instagram is plants over pills collective. Yep. Yep. I love the way you're also kind of, I mean, the food, food for near, I think you said where you're creating that food kitchen, uh, commercialized food kitchen just for plant-based.
[44:24] And, you know, you're going to welcome people in there that, um, want to be entrepreneurial and all that stuff. I mean, what a great ecosystem. Yeah. Yeah. We're excited about it, you know, and I think it's going to, it's going to do well. And it's right in the middle of, you know, a community that, you know, has, you know, low access to food, you know, some economic challenges. So, uh, we've been very well received there, you know, people are loving the jackfruit, they're loving the tofu, you know, they're loving, you know, the different things, you know? Uh, And so we're really excited to be able to do more to help help those individuals, you know, eat better, because I think, you know, like you mentioned, you know, everyone should, you know, there's no whole foods over there. Right. So but does that mean that they shouldn't have the opportunity to eat good and wholesome plant based food? Everybody, you know, you know, I think is as kind of advocates in this plant based space. If we're going to be real advocates, we want everybody to be able to eat, you know, more plant based. Absolutely. Tell me this, because, you know, you, you're really advocating, you say, for, you know, social justice or for food justice.
[45:30] What have you found as far as are they receptive to the plant-based message in the food? Or is there a stigma or something that comes with, hey, you know, you're telling me I shouldn't be eating like animal products and meat. And hey, I'm a man, I need my protein. I can tell you in the firefighting culture, it was almost impossible to get these guys to do it. They just felt so attached and they were so self-identified, right?
[46:03] Yeah, I think, you know, it's as difficult, I think, as it might be with anyone else. I think we introduce things that are familiar, you know, tacos, spaghettis, soul food, things like that. We just make it healthy. And so that is allowed us not have as much resistance as we normally would because we make it palatable and not trying to pat myself on the back. But it's good. Yeah. You know, it's really good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there you go. I mean, if it's, if it's good and it fills you up and it tastes delicious, what's there not to like about it? Right. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Absolutely.
[46:37] Um, well, chef Kev, I so admire kind of your, your journey where you've landed
Closing Thoughts and Takeaways
[46:44] the incredible advocacy work that you're doing, uh, with urban Oak initiative. I would encourage everybody to go and check out, check out the website and the great work you're doing. and to donate if you so feel like it. But, you know, I'm going to let you get back to your conference. I appreciate it, Rip. Yeah. I just want you to know how much I love your work, and I consider you a Plant Strong brother. So thank you. And I appreciate you, Rip, for giving us the opportunity and me the opportunity just to share our message and our mission with everyone. You all are doing amazing work as well, and I'll definitely let you know how those samples talk When I get my PLANTSTRONG box later on today, when I get home, I'm going to try the burgers first, so I'll let you know. Absolutely. And just remember, it's six ounces of water.
[47:36] Don't go seven or eight because you don't want it watery. Don't make it too watery. Hey, Rip, I'm a chef. You know, we don't read directions. We just throw it all in there. But I will read it this time just because you asked. I'll make sure I do it correctly. As you, the chef, as intended, Rip. I appreciate the opportunity. Good, good. Hey, will you give me a virtual Plant Strong fist bump on the way out? I will pow there you go boom boom take care buddy.
[48:01] I want to give a huge shout out to Chef Kevin McGee for reminding us that food is much more than fuel. It's connection, it's culture, and it's a catalyst for change. If you were inspired by Kevin's story, visit his website at urbanoakfood.org to see how you can get involved and support his programming. Thanks as always for listening and supporting the show. Until next week, always, always keep it Plant Strong. The Plant Strong podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey. If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones. You can always leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode. As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr. And Anne Crile Esselstyn. Thanks so much for listening.
