#227: Chris Miller, MD - Playing the Long Game of Healing From Autoimmune Disease
Dr. Chris Miller now practices telehealth lifestyle medicine at love.life
In this episode of the PLANTSTRONG Podcast, Rip Esselstyn speaks with Dr. Chris Miller, a former emergency room physician who shares her journey with autoimmune disease and her commitment to a whole food plant-based diet.
Imagine being a young and rising emergency room physician when you start to notice alarming changes in your own body- including chest pains and stiff, painful joints.
At the age of 36, Dr. Chris Miller started experiencing these and other symptoms and her subsequent bloodwork lit up with many autoimmune markers, including systemic lupus.
Dr. Miller discusses the challenges she faced and why some individuals may not experience immediate improvement on a plant-based diet. She emphasizes the importance of individualizing the diet and eliminating pro-inflammatory foods. Dr. Miller also highlights the role of stress management, mind-body work, and incorporating micronutrient-rich foods like leafy greens and sprouts. She provides insights into gut health and the importance of addressing triggers and making necessary changes to heal the gut.
As challenging and frustrating as it was, Dr. Miller played the long game with her health. She knew that a whole food plant-based diet was the best path, but it took time to figure out what worked best for her and her healing journey certainly wasn't linear.
Today, she practices telemedicine where she is well equipped to uncover the many nuances of autoimmune disease and get her patients on their own paths back to health.
As she says, "There is hope! Even though that path may not be easy, it’s always worth it."
Episode Highlights:
0:14:34 Dr. Miller Starts Experiencing Migrating Pain and Physical Limitations
0:17:59 Delving into Research and Learning from Pioneering Physicians
0:22:08 Understanding Lupus: A Connective Tissue Disease
0:30:23 Managing Stress through Mind-Body Techniques
0:39:22 Identifying Triggers and Healing the Gut
0:43:34 The Impact of Omega-3 to Omega-6 Ratio on Health
0:54:32 Incredible Body Recovery and Remission Story
0:58:46 Personalized Approach to Supplementation
1:01:07 Importance of Checking Iron and Omega-3 Levels
1:05:27 Conclusion and Farewell
1:06:34 Learn more about Dr. Chris Miller at love.life
About Chris Miller, MD
Dr. Chris Miller is double board-certified in emergency and integrative medicine. Due to her own health concerns with an autoimmune disease, she left the ER after ten years and radically changed her practice to lifestyle medicine. She has practiced integrative and lifestyle medicine since 2012 in Aspen, Colorado and southern Vermont and currently lives in Colorado. Dr. Miller began practicing lifestyle telemedicine in 2020 and is licensed to practice in 23 states.
Dr. Miller specializes in autoimmune diseases, chronic inflammation, optimization of overall health, lipids, cardiovascular disease, metabolic disorders, and gut health. She is very passionate about microbiome research and everything autoimmune and inflammation related.
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Full Transcript via AI Transcription Service
I'm Rip Esselstyn and welcome to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
The mission at PLANTSTRONG is to further the advancement of all things within the plant-based movement.
We advocate for the scientifically proven benefits of plant-based living and envision a world that universally understands, promotes, and prescribes plants as a solution to empowering your health, enhancing your performance, restoring the environment, and becoming better guardians to the animals we share this planet with.
We welcome you wherever you are on your PLANTSTRONG journey, and I hope that you enjoy the show.
Imagine, if you will, being a young and rising emergency room physician, and then you suddenly start to notice these alarming changes in your own body, including chest pains and stiff and painful joints, that potentially hinder your work and could threaten your whole career.
At the age of 36, Dr. Chris Miller started experiencing these and other symptoms.
[1:09]And her subsequent blood work lit up like a Christmas tree with many autoimmune markers and she was diagnosed with systemic lupus.
And as Chris says, her body was literally on fire from the inside out.
As you're gonna hear today, her journey to healing wasn't linear and simply changing to a plant-based diet didn't cure her.
In fact, for almost five long years, it got much worse before it even got better, even though she remained whole food plant-based.
So why did she stay the course during these lonely and super frustrating years?
Well, Dr. Miller was playing the long game with her health and the healing of her gut.
She knew that a whole food plant-based diet was her best path forward for her long-term health, but she needed to sort out how to make it work for her.
Today, she shares her very personal story and even some reasons why you as well, may not feel better on a plant-based diet.
Dr. Miller left the ER and now practices as a telehealth lifestyle medicine physician where she's currently licensed in 23 states.
[2:30]She loves, adores working with chronically ill autoimmune patients and needless to say, she is well-equipped to uncover the many nuances that get her patients on the path back to health.
It's not always easy, but it's always worth it. Please welcome Dr. Chris Miller.
Introducing Dr. Chris Miller to the PLANTSTRONG podcast
[2:56]All right, today I have got Dr. Chris Miller joining us for the PLANTSTRONG podcast.
And Chris, you are giving us this jazzy purple shirt that reminds me of eggplant, which if you don't know, I can't stand eggplant, but I love the color that you're wearing.
So that's no indication of how I feel about you. Thank you.
I guess purple wasn't the right color to choose, but thank you very and thanks for having me here, Rip. It's so good to see you. Absolutely.
[3:30]So what's that little sign in the back? It says, breathe. So when, is that for yourself or for your patients?
It's for everybody, right? Isn't that what we always forget when we get anxious or stressed or the harder the day gets or the more going on, you just forget to take these slow, deep breaths, which resets us.
It's just what I need to remind myself. So I like to have it there.
Yeah. And when you take these slow, deep breaths, how do you do them?
Is it through the nose and out the mouth or any particular method that you recommend?
I definitely am doing more nose breathing now since the book Breath came out by James Nester, right?
A lot more information about the benefits of breathing through my nose.
So I breathe in from my nose for, I do the count of four in, I hold for the count of seven and I breathe out for the count of eight.
And I tend to do that out through my mouth, but sometimes I'll do it all through my nose.
So I always inhale through my nose though, So, because when you inhale through your nose though, it increases, it cleans the air, it warms the air, and actually increases nitric oxide secretion through your nose.
So breathing in through your nose is beneficial for many reasons.
And so I do that, yep. So in addition to chewing our green leafy vegetable.
[4:42]It's also important to also breathe through your nose.
It actually makes a difference. And even more than breathing through your nose, doing things like humming or singing loudly also increase nitric oxide secretion.
So I hum through the day more now, which I've never done before.
So help me out with the humming. Let's you and I both hum for 10 seconds just because I want to try it.
The Benefits of Humming and Long Exhales
[5:12]And you kind of, like, if you would ask me, when you hum, do you breathe in or you breathe out? I would have said, I don't know, but you're obviously breathing out.
You're breathing out, right. It's an exhale. And what I think part of that benefit is, it's a long exhale too, right?
When you breathe, when you're humming, you're like slow, long breathing out and that's what you want.
So to reset you as well. Right. Right.
Boy, I mean, we haven't even started. Look at all these gems that are just flying off the cuff.
This is beautiful.
So Chris, I would love, well, first of all, let me say, it's great to see you.
I think the last time I saw you, we might've been next to each other on an airplane going out to LA.
And that's when I was like, boy, we gotta get you on the PLANTSTRONG Podcast, because you're doing such really wonderful work right now in the plant-based telehealth space, which you must just be just loving. I can't even imagine.
It's super fun to do telemedicine. Yeah, and to actually do lifestyle telemedicine, it's the biggest honor because people come to us because they're interested in improving their health.
And so right there, they're motivated and looking for a way to be healthier or someone to make sure they're dialed in with their labs or that they're doing it right, as people say.
So it's the greatest honor. and we get to see people all over the country and international so the types of people I'm meeting is amazing, so wonderful.
Yeah, and I would imagine.
[6:41]That, well, so what's your experience when you were seeing people in person, right? As an ER doc, I guess.
And now when you're seeing people over the computer, but it's very, very visual, do you feel like you're, you're connecting as well.
[7:01]Worse, better, because maybe there's a little bit of distance between you now, and they're more comfortable being in the comfort of their own home.
I just love to hear you kind of pontificate on that for a sec.
Yeah, it's definitely different is the word I would use. It's not the same, but it's still amazing.
Like we are getting really close. I was truly worried because as a physician, you know, we're taught to do physical exams and lay your hands on someone, feeling someone, someone's abdomen, listening to someone's heart.
There's a lot you gain looking at their skin tone and hydration status, there's a lot you gain by being with someone, watching their bodies and their facial expressions as they listen to you or as they explain their own story to you.
And so I was worried we would lose that and I did not know how it would go, but it's actually amazing.
So we can't touch people, and that is true, but I feel very connected to people.
And what's working out well is people are seeing me regularly or at least more than and so we feel like we're making a connection.
And I can still watch their body language and their facial expressions.
So I can still gain a lot from the relationship. So it's been great, yeah.
How long have you been doing the telehealth medicine?
I've been doing it three years now, which I can't believe it's been that long already. So I started it in 2020.
Wow. So let's take a look in the rear view mirror for a second.
[8:31]So, when did you decide, Chris Miller, self, I think you should become a doctor.
How did that all come to fruition?
[8:43]I grew up with my father, a pediatrician, so like you, I had a doctor in the family, and I used to go to his office and help.
So I always thought I wanted to be a pediatrician, but it turns out I didn't like sick kids.
[8:54]I like kids, but I don't like them when they're sick. And so I really enjoy working with adults and working with people.
And so I try to- Can I stop you for a second? Let me just stop you for a second because you say you don't like working with sick kids.
What is it about kids that are sick? Because it seems like it's just, what is it exactly? Can you put your finger on it?
A little bit, because in the ER I would get a lot of sick kids come in and it's scary for one.
So if they can't breathe, you want, it's just different. kids have little airways and things that can go wrong.
Granted, they're healthier, they bounce back fast, and most of the time they're not truly sick, but it is scary when that happens.
And two, I wanna play with kids. I love kids when they're smiling and playful and awesome, right, and so now they're crying or something's going on. So that was not my thing.
It was, I love kids though, but not in the ER.
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny, just having three kids of my own, And also when I was a firefighter having to make calls on children, right?
They just are They're so innocent.
They're so vulnerable and you just hate to see them Yeah in pain or discomfort or anything like that, you know You want to take it on yourself and remove it from them if you could okay, so I I'm sorry I interrupted so you were you were going on to talk about.
[10:20]I think your practice. Yeah. So we were talking about why I was a doctor.
So I became an emergency physician because I truly love being with people when they're sick.
I originally trained in internal medicine. So it's adult medicine.
But then when something was wrong with them, they would go to the ER.
So I decided I wanted to train emergency medicine and be there in that moment when they're having the heart attack or get in a trauma.
So I was an emergency physician for 10 years and I really loved it and and then things went a little where were you where were you doing your emergency I trained in Denver in Denver Health and University of Colorado so I've been out here in Colorado ever since.
Oh like the mountains huh in the altitude.
[11:04]All right yeah so and so I practiced for 10 years in the ER and I loved it and then I got sick with my own autoimmune issues and that's when life took a little change.
So do you mind if we dive into that for a little bit?
Wonderful. So how did that begin? When did you notice that something was a little awry with Chris Miller's body?
Yeah, so I was working in the ER and I started getting swelling of my index finger. The whole finger was swollen.
And so I was looking at like what did I hit it? Was there trauma?
No, no, none of that. It was tender and it was just swollen.
Just one finger. That was it. And I was like, that's weird.
[11:44]And so of course, I'm working a bunch of shifts in a row. So like any good doctor, I did nothing about it.
And then a couple of days later, that had gotten better. I'm like, oh, sweet, well, it went away, whatever it was.
And then a finger on my other side of my hand started swelling.
And that's when I was like, uh-oh, this is autoimmune because changing joint migrating arthralgia, as we call it, which is joint pains that are migrating.
And it was red and it was swollen. And I was like, oh shoot, I need to go get this checked.
So I went to the doctor right away and everything came back positive, everything lit up.
And what's interesting about autoimmune people is often you can't find anything.
You get the initial blood work done.
And it's indeterminate. So nobody knows what's going on. So poor autoimmune people often, it takes a few years.
They say the average is three years to diagnose a lot of people with autoimmune diseases.
Mine, everything lit up and I couldn't believe it. So I was- When you say everything lit up, what does that mean exactly? Oh, sorry, yeah.
So that's all the blood work. So we test autoimmune. There's like an autoimmune panel type, autoimmune type labs.
So ANA for connective tissue disease, lupus, things like that, that was positive.
Double-strand DNA for lupus specifically, that was positive.
Rheumatoid factor for rheumatoid arthritis, that was positive.
They were doing all these inflammatory markers. They were all high.
I was like, what? Because I didn't even know that any of this was going on inside my body.
[13:09]And I was blindsided. I thought I was this healthy doctor in the ER.
You know, my career was thriving. I was having fun. And I had no idea that this was going on. and how were you fueling yourself?
And as you start to answer that question, I'm gonna duck underneath my desk and get my power cord so that my computer doesn't die, but I'm listening.
So I was in, I had come out of residency, two residencies and was working in the ER at this time and was eating a standard American diet.
And what's interesting about the ER is you eat throughout the middle of the night too.
So I was up all night on shifts sometimes. So I was eating then And I tried to be healthy right standard American diet healthy So I wasn't eating at McDonald's, but I was eating regular food pizzas, and you know, whatever I was eating, sweets sometimes at night, so I, always exercised a lot, you know, I thought I was healthy by because I did what I did, but My body was inflamed.
It was you know, they they say like a body on fire.
I was truly that body on fire I had inflammation, systemic inflammation everywhere in my body at that time.
And so when you have this, and so it started with your index fingers, and then it kind of started to spread this body on fire.
Did you hurt? Were you in pain?
Experiencing Migrating Pain and Physical Limitations
[14:34]Describe what your body felt like. What does a body on fire feel like?
Yeah. So I was in pain. I had the migrating pain.
So it would be a terrible shoulder pain where I couldn't even move my arm or terrible Achilles tendon pain where I couldn't walk, I was limping in the ER.
[14:50]By the end of the shift, my knee was swollen, I couldn't walk or one time my hand was so stiff, I had to intubate a patient.
So that's where you have to open their mouth with a handle.
And then I put the tube into someone's airway to breathe for them.
So this patient wasn't breathing, this was a life-saving technique.
I'm the only doctor there, it's a night shift. And my hand was so stiff, I didn't even know if I could grab it, but adrenaline, thankfully, adrenaline soared through me and I was able to do it.
I did the procedure and I got through the night.
It was horrible and I didn't want to tell anyone at this time.
I was a private person I didn't want anyone to think I was less of a doctor, right?
So I went through this kind of on my own and people like oh, what's wrong with your ankle? What's wrong with your shoulder?
And you know, I just kind of tried to work my way around that answer So pick a ball pick a ball injury.
No, it was it was a rough journey and people with chronic illness You will know what I'm talking about.
You know, you try your hardest to get through without being a sick person And, but it's hard, it was hard.
It was definitely a hard time in my life. Hmm.
And how old were you when this kind of cascade of inflammation started to invade your body? I was 36, yeah.
[16:05]So relatively young. I was young, yeah. Okay, and so what did you decide to do?
So after, for the first year and a half, this is back 12 years ago now.
So I didn't know about the plant-based movement or the benefits of it at that time.
And nobody told me about it either. So I saw my rheumatologist and my regular doctors and I was put on meds.
I was on up to six medications to calm the inflammation down and quiet my system and nothing was working. That was what was scary.
I kept flaring through it. I was having chest pains and difficulty breathing and more and more joint pains and my numbers were so crazy high.
And my doctors would kind of freak out and they sell my numbers, my labs.
And then they wanted to try experimental medications. And I was like, oh boy, this is trouble. So I gotta do something.
And that's when I started Googling for the first time, 12 years ago, that what else could I do?
And I came up with people changing their diet.
[17:04]Okay, and so you stumbled upon or you found what, whole food plant-based?
So I found whole food plant-based and I started, like everyone else, when we first learned about it, You know, I was amazed I flew out to I listened to your dad and your mom at a workshop I I flew on this is dr. Furman. I flew out and met dr.
McDougal I you know, I was going everywhere trying to learn everything I could about this.
I read everything I could Online about all this, you know what people could do for I mean, this is still a little bit early So there weren't a lot.
It's not like the number of you know podcasts and things that are now So I was and there weren't any podcasts at that time So I had to fly out to actually hear what they were saying or yeah, cuz this is this is 2011 roughly, right?
Exactly. That's when I changed to 2011. Did you did you watch the documentary forks over knives?
Not at the beginning, but a little bit later I did.
Delving into Research and Learning from Pioneering Physicians
[17:59]Got it. Got it interesting. So, I mean, I love the way You kind of so you started to read up and then you went out and you visited all these basically pioneering physicians.
[18:13]McDougall, Esselstyn, Furman. So you don't mess around. You like to kind of, you know, get dirty, right? Get in the mud.
I wanted to know the details. I wanted to hear like why it worked, how it worked, what did I need to do?
So yeah, I flew out there and they were all, you know, they all host events and there was ways I could sign up for it. So I did.
Right, right, okay. And so did you have success?
What did the next year or so look like for you? Yeah, so this is where my story gets even more interesting.
I didn't. So at the beginning, you know, I was so excited.
So I knew this was my answer and I just couldn't wait to reverse and improve everything and move on in my life.
[18:57]And I started doing these changes and my inflammation got worse and I had more joint pains and more chest pains, and had to go on more medications.
And it was crazy, and I was like, well, what am I doing wrong?
That's why I was flying out and meeting these guys, because I needed more advice.
Like, what am I doing wrong? What is it? Why is this not working?
And they would tell me, do this or that, make these changes, add more of this, do this elimination diet, do some water fasting.
So I went to TrueNorth and water fasted for 16 days.
So I was given all this advice and I kept following it, but I kept flaring.
I just kept flaring. and my joint pains got worse, I was on more, and I was like, I would cry every day.
I mean, I was so upset, right? You see these people reversing, people are doing so well, like, oh, autoimmune diseases, you can change it.
And so I was like, what am I doing? Why am I not doing that?
So it was quite a journey for me.
And so what period of time are we talking about here when you kind of decided to go down the whole food plant-based path and you're experimenting with all these different kind of iterations and you're still not having success. Is this like a year?
No, it was a long time. This is from about 2011 when I changed.
It was 2011 when I changed.
And then it was probably until about 2016 that I was struggling.
For almost five years?
[20:21]Well, oh my God. Well, that's- I mean, there were periods where it'd get a little better, you know, and I kept on my journey, but I kept on a whole food plant-based diet because the data is so good, right?
And the other thing that's interesting about it is I know about comorbidities.
So autoimmune people have inflammation or higher risk for cardiovascular disease, for cancers, for blood clots, you know, and I'm well aware of that.
And I know me with inflammation that that's, you know, that's a kiss of death right there.
So, and for anyone listening, don't be alarmed because we can get better.
[20:52]But Yeah, so I flew all over and you know I just kept trying to get to the root cause and actually when that wasn't the initial things weren't working I thought well what is not working about it? Why am I not getting better?
What what is going on in my body right because we're we're physiological beings.
There's a reason things happen, right? There's a reason that I'm not reaching homeostasis and I'm not improving and so that's when I kept my training I took I did a fellowship in integrative medicine with Andrew Weil because he does a whole lot of mind body work And he does a lot with herbs and I wanted to learn that deeper like is there something that I don't know and I study Functional medicine actually and that was another two years where I flew to all these conferences sat in the front row and they talked about Microbiome they talked about immune system and I get to the root cause how it works and what why it goes wrong So I could start to understand my body a little bit better and start understanding mechanism like okay if I have this inflammation, what's triggering it?
And if you could keep going back, you know, backstream to figure out like what is going wrong with my body and that's what I did.
Wow, love your persistence.
[21:58]So what autoimmune disease were you eventually diagnosed with?
I have lupus, systemic lupus. Systemic lupus, okay.
Understanding Lupus: A Connective Tissue Disease
[22:08]And what exactly, how do you define lupus? It seems like there's a...
A cascade of different autoimmune diseases that are out there.
What exactly is lupus besides a body on fire?
[22:24]So lupus is, it's a connective tissue disease.
And so it's my body is making antibodies against my connective tissue and actually against the cell nucleus inside the cell nucleus, my body is making antibodies.
So cells are breaking and my body is making antibodies against that.
So, it manifests all throughout the body. So it can be blood vessels, connective tissues, joints, it's around heart, lungs, kidneys are a big one, brain, so it affects everything. So lupus is pretty ugly.
But what's interesting is that all autoimmune diseases are more similar than different.
So mine happens to affect connective tissue. If someone has a thyroid, it's a similar way that they start and then it affects that person's thyroid.
Or if someone has MS, or if someone has Crohn's disease, right, these are all examples of autoimmune and they're all, they start from a similar place and it's just genetically what we're susceptible to, how it manifests.
So when we try to improve these, and when we do improve them, we can do it similarly, even though we manifest so differently as autoimmune people.
So it sounds to me, based upon your own autoimmune disease.
[23:38]And your ruthless pursuit of trying to get to the bottom of it, you've become quite a like expert on probably autoimmune diseases in general. Is that fair to say?
Probably, yeah. I mean, yeah. I read everything I can right now about it and etiology of it and mechanism and then what we can do to improve it in every way, shape, and form.
So, and that's where I became a holistic physician, taking on.
You know, obviously food plays a huge role, but there's other factors too.
And I feel like for me personally, I had to address everything in order to finally start getting results.
Yeah. So you wrote a blog article not too long ago, and I think it'd be great if we did a little review of that.
And it's basically the seven reasons autoimmune diseases, or I should say patients, may not feel better on a plant-based diet.
So do you mind if I tee you up and then you could talk about each one of those?
Yeah, absolutely. I was trying to think what the seven were that I wrote.
Yeah. No, no, no, absolutely.
So number one is still eating a pro-inflammatory, still eating pro-inflammatory foods, even though you're eating plant-based.
[24:51]What would you say to that? Yeah. So a lot of people have come to me with a plant-based diet, and in order to reverse or improve, I say reverse, but who knows what it's really happening, but put ourselves in remission.
And we really need to be anti-inflammatory.
And so certain plant foods are more anti-inflammatory than others.
And so if people are eating processed plant foods, for example, or oils, or excess nuts and seeds, or even, you know, even, yeah, sugar sweeteners.
So there's a lot of foods that are plant-based and would in general be considered a relatively healthy plant-based diet, but it's still pro-inflammatory.
And the other thing is, and it might be a separate thing, I can't remember, but if you're eating food triggers, like for me, brown rice was a food trigger.
So I had to take that out and grains.
And so I was on a pro-inflammatory diet for me personally when I was eating brown rice and trying to do this elimination diet.
So I had to take all my grains out for a short time in order to improve my symptoms.
And so that's what I mean by pro-inflammatory.
Yeah, so I'll keep going down the list, but first I wanna dive into you just for a sec.
So what was it that ultimately worked for you that unlocked the, you know, autoimmune key to allow you not to have a body on fire?
[26:14]Well, a lot of it I'm going to list in that. It's in that list. Okay.
But it's a holistic approach, and I had to individualize it for me.
So when I was following these different protocols or programs that are so well written by people so well intended, and, You know, they help so many people like Brooke Goldner or or Clint Pattison These are my friends and they're such lovely people and they're amazing.
They help so many people but for me personally I had food sensitivities and I had anxiety and I had a microbiome that was so out of balance and if without addressing those, And some of these other issues then just the food and more of the good food.
It just didn't work for me I wasn't actually repairing myself enough And how long did it take you before you realized that like brown rice and other grains were a bit of a trigger for you?
Well, I kind of realized it quickly. I was doing one of the elimination diets for autoimmune where you eat brown rice, green, yellow, orange vegetables, cooked vegetables.
And I was doing that within the first two days. I felt horrible.
I started getting chest pains and I knew it was probably the food.
And when I took the rice out, it went away and brought it back in and it came right back. So I knew quickly.
For me, it was easy. And is it not only rice? Would it be amaranth, millet, quinoa, barley, farro? At that time it was any grain, yeah. Isn't that crazy?
Like how do you be plant-based? You can't even eat any grains.
So all I was, and even beans. I had the same type of reaction with beans. Really?
[27:41]So, you poor thing. So are you able to eat grains or beans today?
I can eat all of that now. I eat all of that. You can?
[27:47]So there's hope at the end of this. Oh, there's so much hope.
Anyone listening, there's so much hope, which is what I love to work with my patients because we get better.
So I just, I, you know, trying a protocol where everyone says this is what you have to eat at the beginning, it doesn't work.
It didn't work for me because those weren't my foods and I wasn't dealing with my other issues, right?
So microbiome issues or mind body work without dealing with the big picture because inflammation comes from stressful thoughts as much as it comes from what you're eating.
So I, even though I was eating plant-based, I was worrying about things persevering about how bad my numbers were. and how sick I was.
And so I just couldn't get to that state of calm that you need for a body to heal.
And my microbiome was still out of balance. And...
And interestingly, this is a study, this is an aside, but I wanna throw this in there.
And a lot of your listeners are gonna know this study, but there was a study where they took people and made them either plant-based or in high fiber, clean plant-based diet, or they gave them fermented foods.
And the people who eat fermented foods, at least four to six servings a day, or maybe even more, that those people had lower inflammatory markers.
Whereas the plant-based people, there were three different outcomes.
A third of them completely reversed any symptoms and had low inflammation.
A third of them got better, but didn't fully resolve their issues.
And a third of them got worse on that plant-based diet.
And what they think, the reason is, the authors speculated was that it was.
[29:16]Those people have a narrower microbiome.
And so they're giving them all this diverse fiber, but if they don't have the microbiome to actually do good things with it, then they didn't get the benefits.
And in fact, they got inflammation.
And I think that was me. I was one of those third and so when I I would read stuff like this as this comes out That was a group in Stanford.
I think it was Christopher Gardner and the Sudden Burks Maybe maybe all of them or maybe just one of them. I can't remember.
I think it was those guys that group And so they came up with the study and you know, I would read stuff like that and that's when what how I would start Changing my diet.
Well, I need to bring fermented foods in well I need to you know, I started making changes not based on anyone's program anymore But based on stuff I was reading trying to understand my own microbiome and I tested my microbiome many times So I had plenty of my own narrow microbiome issues.
And so I was able to start broadening it So it's the prebiotic fiber as well as the fermented foods and suddenly my bot You know, my gut is starting to diversify itself a little bit How long did that take do you know?
I started feeling better pretty quickly a few months. So that's quick in my terms.
Managing Stress through Mind-Body Techniques
[30:23]You also mentioned, you know, stressful thoughts and how those can kind of create, be a, maybe a trigger for inflammation.
What have you done to help prevent your mind from perseverating on things so much? Yeah, I've done a lot. I do a lot of mind-body work.
I'm someone who can definitely feel anxious and get worried about things easily.
And I work on this with my patients. Any of my patients listening will know, on our first visit, I talk about what they do to handle stress, and we talk about tricks right away.
But I do that breathwork technique that I explained to you, So that long exhale, super beneficial too.
That can even lower blood pressure by 20 points just by doing that.
So I do my breath work.
[31:10]I get outside almost every day now. So before it was like, oh, I'm too busy with work.
But now I started my work just a little bit later in the morning.
So I do have time to get outside because I need it for my health.
It resets me to be outdoors and hopefully exercising or at least moving outdoors.
I do exercise regularly. But I when I was really stressed out I did a lot of coloring books because I couldn't even meditate, you know Just getting that focus was I would just perseverate during that meditation period and so coloring books brought my focus just a coloring So that really helped me personally then and now I do more meditation yoga really reset me There's some really good data about yoga and rheumatoid arthritis and joint pain people and so I read that and I thought okay Well, I'll start yoga, but it really did help me It's somehow reset my mind where things just didn't seem to be so worrisome after a yoga session.
So I do a lot of yoga and I'm always looking for more activities.
You know, now I socialize with neighbors, with friends as if it's a job, right? It's not just something you do when you're not working for fun.
It's now like, well, what did I do to socialize this week? What, you know, I need to plan something because it resets me and I know I'm not as anxious.
So, yeah, it's so important. I say that people come to me because they want to talk about diet or what's going on with them with their chronic illness or whatever, just being healthier as they age.
And the first thing I talk about is what do you do, what's the stress in your life? How do you handle it? What are your techniques?
[32:39]Because what I've learned in my patients as well as myself is that when we're stressed out and have these thoughts, we don't heal, we don't reverse without them.
So we have to get to a calm sense of get our vagal tone revved up.
And then things start to improve just kind of on their own. They just our bodies take care of themselves.
Yeah, there is such a powerful mind body connection.
And I think that in a lot of us.
We're missing out on that. That key word connection, right?
I mean, we all are right. COVID was so hard too. And yeah, so in the way sometimes our neighborhoods are built, it kind of depends.
Yeah, well, let's move on. That was number one.
So number two is not eating enough micronutrients.
[33:28]So yeah, what are micronutrients and why do we need more of them?
So the micronutrients are your, things like polyphenols, all your vitamins, all your minerals, phytonutrients, which are in your leafy greens, your cruciferous vegetables, right? Your sprouts.
So what I have noticed is that some elimination diets that I had tried for myself, or that sometimes I see people eating a plant-based diet, but they're not eating the high power micronutrient rich foods, and that's gonna be your leafy greens, your cruciferous vegetables, your sprouts.
Those in particular, especially if you eat some of them raw, a lot of them raw, and again, that's where Brooke Goldner's brand comes from, right? Cause she's doing the all raw all day.
And there's a lot of benefits to those raw foods.
[34:18]They're, when they're raw, they have the living enzymes still in them because, you know, like the glucosinase in cruciferous vegetables.
Well, that's heat labile. So that gets cooked out.
If you cook them for too long, a light steam, you'll still have them.
Or if you chop them first, you'll still have them. But if you cook everything for a long time, or you don't eat them, some people aren't eating them after those greens.
And so eating them raw is particularly super good for you.
And sprouts, now there's some really good data with sulfur raffine from sprouts that 20 milligrams of that sulfur raffine really calms the immune system down, can heal our guts, the leaky gut that we get from autoimmune diseases, and actually help our system build tolerance because our immune system shouldn't react to different foods.
We shouldn't have these food sensitivities. We shouldn't be causing antibodies against ourself and eating the sprouts, the sulfur raffane actually helps your body build tolerance.
So they're powerful. So some people are doing autoimmune disease, I mean, are doing these plant-based diets, but if you're not getting enough, sometimes all I do for people is add a whole lot more of these raw living, you know, these greens and micronutrient rich foods and that alone will help.
Yeah. I've had Doug Evans on the podcast. He wrote the Sprout book and he's quite the advocate.
Of all the sprouts, lentils, broccoli, the sulforaphane.
[35:41]Boy, boy, boy, it sounds. Yeah. There's probably just not evidence with all of those yet, but there will be, because all of those sprouts are amazing.
I listened to that podcast with him, by the way.
Yeah, that stuff, it's really good. It's good for us.
What do you, is there any particular way that you recommend that your patients consume their green leafies?
Because I find for so many people, It's just a matter of having it be convenient and you know, how do you add it to you know?
You're your breakfast your lunch your dinners in a way that is just kind of, Streamlined and not a huge effort. Do you have any tricks there?
Um, I do so, you know, I did three sessions with Brooke Goldner.
So I definitely the smoothies work They definitely help so for a lot of people they can throw it in that the trick with a smoothie I think is that some people and myself being one of them but might put in too much, Fruit and then that will sabotage what you're trying to do So you have to just very little fruit and then it doesn't taste as good So it gets a little challenging but you can see you can blend them because you will get the benefits Don't tell your father but you will get the best.
[36:52]For your immune system that way and that's been proven, you know people that are improving significantly with that So that's one way for people that are on the run and you can make it in the morning and you have it through the day.
You can just eat salads or, you know, I love those pre-shredded broccoli slaws or cabbage slaws and I just cut it, pour it in and, you know, put a lemon or vinegar or something on top of it.
So that's super easy to, or, so making salads ready to go, no time involved, or buy those containers of greens, you know, or Costco and you have them ready to go.
So all of that works, all of that works. Even frozen, I work with patients in my neighborhood here, underserved people, and I did some talks about this, and they went to our local Walmart, which has a grocery store, and bought it frozen, bought it on sale, and they got disease reversal.
I mean, people were improving, and I didn't know if it would work, but it did. So yeah, you can get them all over, and it can be fast and easy.
Yeah, oh, we're a huge fan of frozen. and we do frozen cauliflower, broccoli, kale.
There's a three, Whole Foods has a three kind of green leafy blend that you can buy as well.
I think it's Swiss chard, kale, and maybe collards.
Yeah. I love that. I didn't even know about that. So yeah, all of that works.
All that's gonna be helpful for people. Yeah. Wonderful.
[38:19]Okay, number three, you have.
You haven't quite removed all the trigger foods.
We kind of talked about this, I think with your brown rice and stuff like that.
And it can be, there's a lot of, there's some common triggers.
So some people will know like nightshade vegetables, tomatoes, white potatoes, peppers, eggplant.
So back to the eggplant that you can tie that in throughout the theme of the day.
But so those can be triggers about 10% of people with joint pains like rheumatoid arthritis or lupus or others, about 10% of people might have an issue with those nightshade vegetables.
So that's something that if you have in joint pains, we might take it out for a short time and then bring them in one at a time and kind of retest it with yourself. Make, see if that's a problem.
Gluten can be a problem for a lot of people with autoimmune.
Dairy is a huge problem. So going plant-based certainly helps with that.
Eggs, fish can be a problem for people as well. So depending on people's food triggers.
So that's why going plant-based helps significantly right there.
But then within the plant-based world, there are triggers.
Identifying triggers and healing the gut
[39:22]And so we have to look, and I can usually work now with my patients and I know like watching them, how they're doing, if they're gonna do better, or if they're still having pain and they're not doing better, then we look at what they're eating and can pick out potential triggers and help them.
But the thing about triggers are, you just put them to the side because we get better.
The goal is to heal the leaky gut and the microbiome, bring that balance back, and then we can bring those foods back in.
Yeah, that's the plan. Yeah. So let me, taking a little break from our list, are there any foods that you can't eat now that are kind of still mini triggers?
I still don't eat gluten because I have celiac genes.
So that's the one for me. Otherwise, I can eat, no, I can eat all plant-based foods now. Yeah.
So it's fair to say you have achieved that state of homeostasis.
I've healed my gut up significantly, so I'm not having, I don't have any joint pains.
I don't need any medications, which it was years till I could say that.
So yeah, it's finally healed my gut.
[40:31]What is it about the nightshades that are pro-inflammatory? Do you know?
I do know, but I'm not going to remember. It's like there's a protein.
Some of your listeners, I know they're going to know this.
Someone can put it in the chat box if they see it, if they know, but it's, there's a protein in it that can trigger people.
But the thing that I want people to know is that it's only 10% of people.
That means 90% of people who are plant-based can still eat them.
I could still eat tomatoes, I could eat peppers.
So those are healthy, nourishing foods. You don't wanna not eat them, right? They have a lot of benefits. And they make salads and dishes delicious.
And so you wanna eat them. It's just if you're at the beginning, maybe take it out for the first two weeks or a month, or if you're not getting better, then do a trial, I'll take them out for a little bit and see, so.
Mm-hmm, got it. So number five, again, we've kind of talked about a lot here since you've done such a great job going in into details here, but number five is you haven't completely healed your gut yet. Mm-hmm.
So I guess, what would you say there?
[41:35]It takes time and you got to continue to figure it out. Yeah, you got to figure it out So as long if you're not eating, you know The anti-inflammatory foods like we talked about the broccoli sprouts the sulfur refane Those types of things will actually help heal your gut if you're low in omega-3s That might be another list that actually helps heal your gut, Um, if you're still eating pro-inflammatory foods, your gut is still inflamed and it's not going to recover itself If you still have an if you have a narrow micro biome your gut's not going to recover itself.
So So, you gotta improve all of those things.
Or if someone's taking aspirin daily or, which some people need, so I don't wanna tell people to stop medications, but ibuprofen daily or, you know, certain medications can be affecting your gut as well.
So, that's something you wanna talk to your doctor about and see if you can help that. Dr. Justin Marchegiani Got it.
So, I just realized I did skip over number four. So, let's go back to four, which is you're not getting enough omega-3s to omega-6 fatty acids.
Yeah, the ratio- Dr. Justin Marchegiani Talk to me- talk to me about the imbalance there.
Dr. Megan Wolf The ratio is super important. So uhm- the Omega-3s are gonna be anti-inflammatory and they help with the anti-inflammatory pathway so they put out inflammation.
And they're found in plant foods. They're found in your flax seeds, your chia seeds, a little bit in walnuts and- and hemp seeds and- and leafy greens. That's kind of the main thing.
And flax and chia seeds raise it in your blood the most. So if you wanna raise it, those are- those two are gonna raise it in your blood the most.
[43:01]And other nuts and seeds are good for you for a lot of reasons, right?
Which we've seen the data, but they're gonna be higher in omega-6 fatty acids.
So if you eat too many nuts and seeds relative to the amount of omega-3 fatty acids that you eat, then you're gonna be in a pro-inflammatory state throughout the day.
And so then you wonder, why do my joints still hurt? So we check levels on people.
I do this on my patients, and if their ratios aren't good, I help them really increase it, which can make a huge difference for people.
Yeah.
The Impact of Omega-3 to Omega-6 Ratio on Health
[43:34]What is it that I've I think that I've read that you the ideal, like ratio of omega threes to omega sixes is something like what one to three, or something like that.
I guess most people have a ratio because of all the process refined foods and the oils of like one to 20 or one to 30.
Yeah, amazing, right on a standard American diet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, even on a plant based diet, if people are eating a lot of nut butters or a little bit of oil here or there, a little processed foods, the ratio can be way off or not paying enough attention to get enough omega-3.
So that really, it makes a huge difference.
And I look at the percentage of omega-3s because they're incorporated into your cell membranes.
And so I want a percentage, at least five and a half to 6%, even up to 8%, somewhere up in that.
So most Americans are around 5%. a lot of our plant-based eaters might be around three to 4% because they're, you know, if they just don't pay attention to it or eat those types of foods.
So, by really supporting people with it, that can make a huge difference.
Yeah. So, you know, my third book was called the Engine 27 Day Rescue Diet.
And in that book, our protocol is we recommend that people really limit.
[44:52]Their nut consumption. And when they do nuts, do walnuts.
And remember, this is for people that are sick. Do walnuts, keep it to about an ounce because the walnut is about a one to three ratio of omega-3s to omega-6s.
And people say, well, what about almonds? And if you look up an almond, you'll see that it's omega-3 to omega-6 ratio is like one to 2,500.
So it's like off the charts. Yeah, and so again, it's why when you know, people are doing three to four to five handfuls of you know, all roasted salted almonds a day, not only are they getting just a huge influx of calories and fat but also, you know, the This imbalance they get threes to Omega six.
Oh, that's really good point. Yeah. Yeah, that's so true I didn't know that almonds were like that and it's not like nuts and seeds are all bad like no can get him in as long as they're getting enough omega-3s to counter and they just do a little bit for some of the benefits of it. But that is really interesting. Yeah.
[45:53]Um, so that also brings up one other point is sometimes the roasting as you brought up, that roasting alone can be pro-inflammatory.
When I say that people are still eating a pro-inflammatory diet, if you're eating roasted foods, even things like Mary's crackers, which look like they have really good ingredients, they're oil-free. A lot of people eat them.
I eat them sometimes now, but back in the day, if I would have a Mary's Cracker, I would flare.
And you know, it's processed. It's not like you're eating brown rice and sesame seeds or sunflower seeds.
It's processed and cooked at high temperatures and roasted and all of that can trigger, potentially trigger autoimmune people.
Yeah, well, I know that when you burn different like bread and different kinds of carbohydrates, you get those acrylamides.
Maybe those are super pro-inflammatory. Same idea, yep, same idea.
So even like dried cereals, anything cooked at high temperatures, which is why you want to do stuff yourself and cook it at low temperatures.
Right on. Number six is you have other triggers. Maybe we've talked about this.
[46:55]But you tell me if there's anything else you can think of. Yeah, those are other life triggers. So life stressors can be a trigger, you know, your situation.
And, and I know this myself, I moved out of my mountains into, into Vermont, New Hampshire area for a short time.
And I lost my community and my people and my friends and and my inflammation went up.
You know, I didn't change my diet at all, but I started having more joint pains and more issues again.
And so I needed my people, I needed my community, I needed my home and you know, all the stuff I built for so many years.
And so I came back here and everything just immediately improved.
And I was like, wow, look at this. My mind is totally controlling my immune system right now.
So dealing with life in any way we can, and this is something I try to work on with my patients, because you know, life is hard and we have real stressors we can't address.
So figuring out how we can make things better for ourselves So that's what I mean by that because that definitely impairs healing of an autoimmune disease.
[47:53]Yeah, what life is hard isn't it it can be sometimes right yeah But I read a book about from a neurosurgeon and he said maybe that's the point of life though Right the challenges that make us better people and more meaningful lives.
And so give us our sense of purpose.
So So, we have to just say it's challenging, not hard, yeah, but who knows. Yeah.
Well, I think if you go in, if you go into something and you're expecting it to be a challenge and to be difficult and to be hard.
[48:25]It's kind of like okay, I'm I'm expecting this I'm bracing for it and then it's not a shocker and you don't just go Okay, screw this.
I'm out. I'm quitting life, right Right.
It depends on what your goals are if you want to reach them So yeah, but it's that's what you work on You know people like you you're doing such a good job rip helping people overcome these challenges by sharing all these great speakers and techniques And in different ways for people to navigate, you know, cuz it's challenging Yeah.
Well, thank you very much. I appreciate that.
So number seven on your list is it just takes more time.
Yeah, we have to be patient. So just like me, you know, I did Brooke Goldner's within the first month. I wanted to be like, I'm reversed.
Look at me. I'm better. And, you know, and she had to say that to me, like, no, it's going to take you more time. It took a lifetime to build these diseases.
They don't just in mind, didn't just manifest when I was 36.
It took time to build it, years of damage to myself to lead to that.
So it takes time to repair it.
So sometimes we just need to breathe and be patient and stay the course.
It's it's it's so ironic because today we want everything resolved like it's this microwave mentality.
I want it resolved tomorrow. And you're saying that this may take months or even a year or two.
You got to be kidding me, Chris. I don't have that kind of patience or time.
[49:51]It doesn't always take that long though. The things I've learned now, I can help people.
People can navigate it a lot faster, I would say, than my journey.
So I don't want anyone to get scared off by that.
But yeah, but even if it's been a long time, we can still get better right there.
We just have to figure our bodies out because we're physiological creatures.
So there's a reason why things are doing what they're doing.
And we just got to figure that out. So can you share one or two success stories with me of patients that you've been working with that have had some nice reversals of.
Whatever it is you wanna share. Yeah, I have so many amazing patients doing really well.
[50:32]So one of my favorite patients is a diabetic and he had a hemoglobin A1C of 11.1 and he was on insulin at that time, even with that.
And he was on oral medication, metformin and had high blood pressure, was a little bit overweight.
And he was making these, we laugh now, but we call them these fat bomb smoothies because he was putting in greens, but he was loaning it with like nut butters and nuts and seeds and avocado.
I mean, they were literally fat bonds. And so he couldn't understand why he wasn't getting results. So, you know, we changed his diet and we did a clean whole food plant based diet.
And we worked on his mind, body and his exercise program and gave him support, you know, sending him to podcasts like this or to the Mastering Diabetes friends of ours, or, you know, he worked with different people to help him as well as me.
And you know, we check labs every so often, we use a continuous glucose monitor, and he's fully reversed.
His hemoglobin AMC is 5.2, which is not at all diabetic.
[51:33]He lost over 40 pounds, I can't remember the exact number, but over 40 pounds.
And his blood pressure is normal, he's not on blood pressure medications anymore.
So he's an amazing success story of mine. And his took about one year.
And what's interesting about him is he was doing, I don't know what podcast he got this from, but he was doing air fried potatoes.
He loved them. And he said, I don't want to give up my air fried potatoes.
I said, well, let's not give them up then. Let's watch your results.
You know, let's work on this. Let's navigate you and watch your results.
And so we did, we worked together.
He ate air fried potatoes for lunch every single day. It's his French fries with a little bit of ketchup and a no sugar ketchup. And he reversed, even eating potatoes every day.
So I was like, isn't that amazing? That's awesome.
Yeah, well, I'm not surprised about the potatoes. I'm glad he found a nice, healthy way of cooking them.
The Pitfalls of Unhealthy Cooking Habits
[52:27]Unless you think air frying is not healthy, but yeah, I mean, you know, not putting oil or, you know, butter.
I mean, the typical firefighter will put half a stick of butter on their baked potato and, you know, they just, they desecrate it.
Yeah. Yeah. And that room, there goes all the health. So, that was a fun story.
Yeah. And so he's still at it. And then I had a patient who was a young woman who was recently married, she had three children, and she was going through a bad breakup with her husband, and she had rheumatoid arthritis, and she couldn't move her whole left side of her body, it was so stiff, like she just couldn't move, and she had to have someone help sit down.
And what's interesting about her is she spoke Spanish only, and I get a lot through talking to my patients and connecting with them and understanding each other, you know, through what we're saying and through body language.
And we couldn't understand each other, So we had an interpreter going through us.
[53:25]And so I explained the diet and what needed to be done, what to eat, any supplements or probiotics we were using for her particularly, and what we needed to do.
So we explained the program. I thought, oh my gosh, it's never gonna work. This will be horrible.
She came back a month later and she wasn't yet better.
To be honest, and she was so stressed out that going through this breakup.
And I said, what are you doing for mind body work?
She wasn't doing anything cause she didn't have time. And so I had her have her mom watch the kids half an hour every morning, that was it.
And she was able to go outside, go for a walk, get out in nature, take some deep breaths, just be still and have time to herself.
So she started doing that.
So she came back, I didn't see her for three months. I thought, Oh, I wonder if I'm gonna see her anymore. You know, I don't know what's happening.
She came back three months later.
She walked in my office and she hadn't taken that She was supposed to be taking prednisone a steroid and Plaquenil another rheumatoid arthritis drug.
She hadn't taken those She can move her whole body.
She was not having any more pain so she was able to do the mind-body work she said she was even starting a little bit of yoga and.
Incredible Body Recovery and Remission Story
[54:32]She followed the diet I mean so I couldn't believe it it really works On other people.
I mean it works on a lot of people I help a lot of people, but every time I'm just, I'm in awe that our bodies can recover, right?
And so she's doing well.
She, when I say reverse, she's in remission. She's now, you know, she's pain-free and she's thriving. She doesn't live too far from me.
And she works in the community center where I help out. And yeah, she's amazing.
So is there not an app now where if you have somebody that is speaking Spanish, that it converts it, like her words into English on your screen?
Maybe, there probably is, do you know that?
I should get that. No, I'm just throwing it out there. It's gotta exist.
Yeah, it probably does. Yeah, yeah, that would be amazing to help, so. Okay, listeners, let us know.
So you have a quote on your website. It's, I'm not saying it's gonna be easy.
I'm saying it's gonna be worth it, which I really like a lot.
So accurate. All right, so you've said that.
Finding Purpose in Illness
[55:39]You're grateful for your illness and what it's given you. Can you expound on that?
[55:46]So I remember when I first got lupus and all these people were like, oh, well, it's gonna be a gift for you.
What's your gift? And I was like, this is not a gift at all.
This has been my life. I'm not working in the ER anymore.
And I loved it there. And I'm like, there's nothing that's a gift about this at all.
But over time, as you start living this new lifestyle, it brought me to this.
It brought me to this world, which I, you know, hopefully I would have learned about it eventually, but I came around and it taught me to open a new practice and to train in integrative and functional and lifestyle medicine and brought me new friends and new meaning and new purpose.
And now I get to work with all these people in such a special way to help people attain their health and get really healthy.
So, and I'm with an amazing group, my whole group at Love Life Telehealth.
We have some fantastic doctors, we cover all 50 states and I have these great colleagues that I never would have had or got to work with.
So, it's been a blessing. And how many states are you licensed in?
I'm licensed in 23 states right now, so.
That's really phenomenal, congratulations. That must have been quite the grind.
It was a grind, so yeah, I don't know how long I'll be able to keep all 23, but that's what I have right now but I do have patients in all 23, so it's awesome.
It's so great to work with people on different walks of life in different areas.
So you tell people to play the long game when it comes to your health.
That's certainly what you've done.
[57:12]It seems like so many people, they wanna play the short game.
And I think it goes back to kind of our conversation about just being patient with this and making it happen.
But what would you say as far as the long game when it comes to whole food plant-based? Um, just like.
Stay the course and grind it out and figure out any kind of little idiosyncrasies that may be, that are, and foibles that are unique to you.
[57:41]That's exactly right. So, you know, what happens is people listen, including myself, we listen to all these great speakers, right?
All these great people that have gotten results, all these knowledgeable experts that are out there that are coming to speak, and we hear these pearls and wonderful things that they do.
And so we try it and it may not work on us.
And so then that's where some people get stuck or they don't want to do this or they think it's not working or they're not getting results.
And so I just, I want results.
I'm looking to reverse my pain. You know, I don't want pain anymore.
That's what I, that was my goal.
And to not be dependent on so many, all those medications. So, you know, and so that was my goal going into it. So I just kept looking for results.
So working with people, people can start, people will start to notice changes right away.
And so, you know, that's the, if you're starting to feel better, then it's easy to keep going, right?
And so that's what we're looking for, is starting to get change and make it fun, build this community. Cause it was, I still was building a community, even though I didn't yet have my results, but so. Yeah.
Personalized Approach to Supplementation
[58:46]Chris, what are your thoughts on supplementation? What supplements do you think people should be taking taking or not taking?
Well, you know, we know what people say in the plant-based world.
First of all, because I work with patients one-on-one, I get to check labs so we can test people.
People are different, so what your needs are gonna be very different from mine, right?
I already know I have gut issues. I don't absorb as well, so I might be low in iron and vitamin D and B12, and you may not have that issue at all, right? So we're gonna be different.
So that's the first thing I would say is that if people get a chance to test, that would be helpful, just to know if you're absorbing what you're eating, if you're eating enough diversity, if you're getting what you need.
[59:30]But in general, plant-based people need the B12 because we're not eating animal products, so we need to get B12.
Vitamin D is so vital to the immune system, to heart health, to bone health, to brain health as we age, so many things.
And so vitamin D to make sure either you're getting it from the sun and your levels are good, or you're supplementing with it. What levels do you like?
To see? I like to see someone at least probably around 40 to 50 is what I'm shooting for.
So, 30 is the standard where they say. So, below 30, you're definitely deficient. You got to at least be 30.
But I think with COVID, with immune issues, with just the world as it is, I push people just a little higher, 40 to 50.
Maybe there's some data showing that the higher levels help prevent cancer.
But it's early. It's not large amounts of data yet.
So, who knows if that's right or not. but so I push at least a 40 to 50 if I can.
Okay, B12 and we also check, I also check homocysteine to make sure that people's B12 is functional and doing what it needs to do.
Cause some people, you have to methylate the B12 in order for it to do all these, be a co-factor for so many things in our body, like making red blood cells and everything.
So B12, I'll check both of those to make sure your level is okay for that as well.
[1:00:48]And then other supplements, Iodine, so making sure people have a source of iodine if you're eating either iodized salt or many people are doing salt-free or low salt or sea salt so they're not getting it so then you can get it from seaweed or you can get it from a supplement.
So that you need to pay attention to it, whatever your source is.
Importance of Checking Iron and Omega-3 Levels
[1:01:07]And what else? Iron for some people, so check level. It's worth checking the level.
Some people think that they're perfect and then we find that it's a little bit low and we can support that and get that better.
So that's something that I don't just put people on it but I would test it.
[1:01:21]Omega-3s is worth making sure people are getting enough.
Because as we age, our brains need omega-3s. And there's actually proof of that.
Now we know with certain genetics, people who have a gene called the ApoE4 gene, we know that they need extra DHA because one of the transports across the brain, if you have the ApoE4 gene, it doesn't work as well.
And so those people need extra omega-3s. So I do check my omega-3s in my patients and make sure that their levels are where we want them to be.
Is it your understanding, is it the omega-3s are the only?
Fats that can cross that blood-brain barrier?
Well, it's the omega, the DHA in particular, but it's been shown, it's probably others that we don't know about, or maybe I don't know about, but definitely that DHA is important to go across, but eating, if you can get it from your flax or chia seeds, if you can convert that ALA into the EPA and DHA, but certain people don't have the gene for that, so they won't, they'll be low levels, even if they're eating it, and they have to be supported.
And so I address that so a pee I would recommend that plant-based eaters take a look at their omega-3 level Even just once if your levels are good, you know, it's not like you need to check that all the time So I can't remember who I was talking to it might have been Cyrus.
[1:02:39]Kambada a couple weeks ago, you know when people say oh, but the brain is like, 60% fat and you need fat in your diet for your brain and, It's like well you really you I mean I mean, yes, you need some, like you just said, some of these DHAs or whatever, but you don't need to feed your brain fat.
Right, right, and because most of those aren't gonna do a lot for the brain anyway, right?
So you just, and even people like Cyrus, Cyrus shared his omega-3s online one time.
I don't know it personally from working with him or anything, but he shared it online.
His omega-3s, even though he's this low-fat guy, his omega-3s were high.
So he was converting, he was getting what he needed. but I have other people eating more omega-3s than him and they're low, because that person doesn't convert as well.
So we can't just look at what your diet is. We actually have to look at you personally.
And that's where, to make sure people are getting enough of the omega-3s.
That's super interesting.
Anything else as far as supplementation?
Zinc can be low in people. So that's worth checking. It's a little bit harder to absorb for plant-based eaters.
So not everyone is low, but it can be.
Selenium, I've seen that to be low. What about magnesium?
[1:03:49]Magnesium can be low in some people. And you know, it's interesting about magnesium because it's super high in fruits and vegetables.
So we're all eating these high fruits and vegetables, ideally, you know, we're all trying to eat more fruits and vegetables.
So you'd think all of ours were good, but it's still, some people can be a little bit low.
So some people do better with magnesium as well. Right.
How many pieces of fruit have you had today?
[1:04:12]Probably one so far. I'll have at least three. I love fruit.
I mean, I love fruit. What'd you have?
I had blueberries so far this morning.
Frozen or fresh? Frozen.
Did you microwave them? How do you, what do you do with them?
Oh, for these I had, no, I had blueberries with some greens.
So I had blueberries and greens and some flax seeds this morning.
Nice. Yeah. I've been really upping my fruit intake. I'd say I'm probably eating 10 pieces of fruit a day.
I know, I love it. I can do a lot of fruit too. I'm a huge fruit person, but it depends too how people feel eating a lot of fruit.
So I definitely feel better when I eat a little less than fruit, but I love it so much. So I eat it.
How does it make you feel when you have too much?
I get a little achier, I would say, just kind of general.
I don't know when I'm humming along, when my body's humming, I wake up, I bounce out of bed. I am ready to go work out.
I can't wait to connect with people. I'm just so, you know, I just got it.
And eating too many grains for me or too much fruit, I just feel a little weighted down. I'm not my best. So I just I eat all of those things.
And but I just am mindful how much I eat. So got it.
Conclusion and Farewell
[1:05:27]Chris, this has been a lot of fun, a lot of fun. Thank you. Thank you for coming and joining me on the PLANTSTRONG podcast.
You know, you say don't follow the crowd, let the crowd follow you.
Yeah, you know, it's fun to just take charge of your health and have fun with it and become a new family with people as you guys, as we're all getting healthier.
So I know I love that line.
Yeah. Not my quote, someone else's, but I love it. Yeah, well, I hope to see you again sometime soon.
Maybe the next time you're in Austin. Yeah, I'd love to. I know, it's so great out there. I love to visit Austin.
Yeah. Thank you. And then the next time that you're in Austin, if it's in a couple months, we'll get you back on the podcast and we can do it in person.
Oh, fine. Yes, we have so much more fun things we could talk about too. Absolutely.
Well, listen, will you give me a virtual PLANTSTRONG fist bump on the way out?
Get it up, there you go, boom.
Dr. Chris Miller, thank you. Thank you, Riff. It's so great to talk to you. Yep, bye.
Learn more about Dr. Chris Miller at love.life
[1:06:34]You can learn more about Dr. Chris Miller or schedule an appointment at the website, love.life.
That's it, love.life. No .com, no anything on the end. It's just love.life.
We'll be sure to link up this with other resources, including Chris's blog article that we reference in the show notes.
Thanks so much for listening, for playing the long game, and always keeping the PLANTSTRONG . See you next week.
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The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, Ami Mackey, Patrick Gavin and Wade Clark.
This season is dedicated to all of those courageous truth seekers who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth.
Most notably, my parents, Dr.
Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr. and Anne Crile Esselstyn.
Thanks for listening.
