#323: Dr. Tila Kansagra - How Lifestyle Medicine Heals Chronic Fatigue, Fibromyalgia, and Burnout
Work with Dr. Tila Kansagra
We all know the saying, “the body keeps the score,” and this week’s guest, Dr. Tila Kansagra, has lived it — and now helps others heal from it.
A UK-based general practitioner and lifestyle medicine physician, Dr. Kansagra brings compassion, lived experience, and evidence-based practice together to help her patients move beyond symptoms and toward true wellness.
In this conversation, we dive into her personal journey with familial trauma, her passion for plant-based nutrition, and how the six pillars of lifestyle medicine — nutrition, movement, sleep, stress management, connection, and avoidance of risky substances — can transform lives.
Whether you’re struggling with chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, burnout, or just want to live stronger and more intentionally, Dr. Kansagra’s story will remind you that healing starts when you care for the whole person — body, mind, and spirit.
Key Takeaways:
How trauma and lived experience shaped Dr. Kansagra’s approach to medicine
Why empathy and connection are essential tools for healing
The definitions and diagnosis of chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia
The role of plant-based nutrition in helping to reverse chronic fatigue and restore energy
How lifestyle medicine empowers patients to take control of their health
Practical steps to build resilience and vitality
Learn more about Dr. Tila Kansagra, the plant-promoting doctor
Episode Resources
Watch the Episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/3FLJ1BwO5mA
Follow Dr. Kansagra on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/plant_promoting_doctor/
Follow Dr. Kansagra on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@plant_promoting_doctor/videos
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Epsiode Transcript via AI Transcription Service
I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
[0:05] I think we've all experienced moments when our bodies finally say, enough. Whether it happens to be chronic fatigue, a lingering illness, or just a mental toll of life's challenges, sometimes it takes a wake-up call to shift course. Today, I have the pleasure of sitting down with Dr. Tila Kansagra. She's a lifestyle medicine physician who has seen firsthand how trauma and illness can shape a person and how intentional lifestyle changes can help us reclaim our health. We're going to meet this compassionate physician right after these words from PLANTSTRONG.
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[1:50] We've all heard the phrase, the body keeps the score. And when it comes to our physical and mental well-being, that couldn't be more true. And at some point, whether it's trauma, illness, or just pushing too hard for too long, the body finally says, enough. It's time for a change. Well, my guest today, Dr. Tila Kansagra, knows this firsthand. After doing the hard work of processing her own past through therapy, she's now a general practitioner and a lifestyle medicine physician who helps patients navigate some of the most misunderstood things.
[2:38] And complicated conditions that are out there, including chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. You may be wondering, what's her approach? Well, what she does is she leans into the powerful pillars of lifestyle medicine, from sleep and movement to stress management, and of course, a predominantly whole food, plant-based diet. Dr. Kansagra's story is inspiring. Her perspective is refreshing. And the way that she cares for her patients and her family is nothing short of beautiful. I can't wait for you to meet her. Let's dive right in. Dr. Tila Kansagra, welcome to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. It is my pleasure. Now, you are across the pond, as we like to say, over in the UK.
[3:39] Tell me, what time is it there? 7.45-ish? Yeah, 7.45 in the evening. I was going to say it's a big pond. It is a big pond. It's a big pond. Yes. So does that mean have you had dinner yet? I have had dinner, and I thought you were going to ask me, so I've got my answer prepared. Well, you're very smart. You're very smart because I was going to grill you as far as what you had for dinner tonight. Please share. So my daughter really wanted to have sloppy joes because she's playing football and needs to be fueled correctly. So I put lots of mushrooms and tempeh and peppers and they had that in wholemeal buns. And I made some homemade wedges with potatoes and that and a salad.
[4:29] Well, that all sounds very delicious. Did she gobble it up? She did, yeah. I know Stoppy Joe's is more of an American thing. People here in the UK don't know what that is, but we're used to having like bolognese, basically. So it's the same kind of thing, but dry, isn't it? So you can put it in rolls. Yeah. How old is she? She is 10. She's turning 11 soon. That's such a fun age. And when you say she's playing football, I would imagine that's not American football. That's probably European football, like soccer. Yeah, European soccer, European football. So both my children play. So they really, really enjoy it. And what's the age of your other child? I've got a son who's eight years old as well. Oh, are they pretty close, your son and your daughter? Yeah, I mean, they have their moments of fighting now and again, but they really do look after each other. So, yeah, it's really nice. That's great. Now, you are a plant-based general practitioner. Would that be accurate to say that about you? Correct. I have subspecialized as well. So I do work as a general practitioner, so a family doctor, but I also specialize in chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia as well.
[5:46] But, you know, we see a lot of patients with those conditions during general practice anyway. Yeah. Well, I definitely want to dive into that because I'm sure that the Plan Strong
Tila's Early Life and Background
[5:57] audience would love to know, as would I, a little bit more about chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. So before we get into you and your medical practice and things like that, your professional, the professional side of Tila, I would love to know more about your personal side and your journey. Because you grew up with Indian parents in the UK, so I'd love to know what that was like. Uh i did have you know quite a traumatic childhood and i think that has led to where i am now i do believe that everything happens for a reason so both my parents are from india originally but my father grew up in uganda in africa and around that time that there were issues with idiameen Um, so a lot of, um, Indians from there had to move, um, to Britain and because they moved, um.
[7:01] Back in the day, my grandfather had gone for opportunities in Africa to work there because it was under British rule. So they had British passports and came to the UK. And my father then married my mum, who's from India, and they ran a catering company. So that's where my passion for cooking and nutrition has come from, really. I remember growing up, you know, filling samosas, peeling peas and cutting onions. I think that was the worst job I ever got, but lots of crying there. So that's how I grew up. But, you know, I did experience quite a lot of trauma in my childhood.
[7:43] I kind of accidentally got into medicine because I was just always good at science, but I wanted to do something creative, but didn't have the confidence to go out there because back then my mum said, look, there's not many South Asians within that space. I wanted to do journalism.
[8:03] But then, you know, I had a really good science teacher who believed in me and kind of where I was at school, everyone was doing medicine. So I went into medicine, but actually I really enjoyed family practice because I love having a rapport with people. I like to know their stories and what makes them them. Because, you know, only about 10% of it is really medicine and treating someone really. The rest is, you know, their circumstances and developing a relationship with that person. So I really do enjoy it. Do you remember the name of the teacher that kind of instilled that confidence in you? Mr. Maines. And I just wonder if one day I could find him and reconnect because, yeah, I also had, you know, some work experience that he sort of organized for me. So, you know, you do remember your teachers that really shaped you when you were younger. So, yeah. No doubt about it. In high school, I had a teacher named Mr. Burkholder and he was something else. Yeah, had the same effect. Okay. Tell me a little bit more about, because, you know, you, you say you had some trauma, what, what, what happened with your, with your father and, um.
[9:27] And some circumstances around him that I think shaped who you are today?
[9:34] So, I mean, it's, it's difficult to reveal because obviously being younger and from the culture that I am, you're always told, you know, don't reveal things about you. Like, you know, it's kind of like airing things. But I realized with time and with therapy that, you know, I wasn't in control of those circumstances. And actually, despite that, you know, I've made a lot of change in a positive way. So has my mother. But ever since I remember, my father has been an alcoholic and it really affected us. I had to grow up quite quickly. Often I was left at home to manage him while he was drying out from the alcohol. So, you know, my mum will say, look, there's three cans of beer here. Make sure that you only give it to him if he really shouts. And she had to go to work. But we kind of normalised that in our society. And there was some patriarchy around that in terms of, you know, it kind of felt that we were at fault and that's why he drank. And it was always the circumstances or somebody else rather than the person who had that addiction.
[10:44] So, I mean, for most of my life, of his life that I've known him, he was drinking. He did give up a year or two before he passed away. there was some physical abuse and emotional abuse as well from people.
[11:03] Him and emotional abuse from his family but I can say that you know for the last couple of years maybe about four years actually I got my mum out that situation and we're both in a more positive place and we like to share you know doesn't matter despite what's happened to us you know we've worked through it and we can have a laugh we can have a joke and look at the positive side of things if you my mom's in a cruise at the moment in Europe with her friends and she's always out she's always having fun she doesn't let it stop her so yeah I think it shaped me um in terms of you know I wanted to get out of those circumstances so I used to work very very hard um thinking about my future um and just wanting to you know afford a nice house for my mom um and have that job security so you know I do have that there but I'm a big believer and with many of my patients I've had some sort of trauma in their lives and you know it may be that their circumstances are better now but unless we work through those traumas accept them because you know they shape our behavior they shape our the way we react
Overcoming Childhood Trauma
[12:20] to other people and patterns that keep reoccurring unless we work through them.
[12:27] So, you know, I'm a big believer in plant-based nutrition, but I know that's not everything. I know that, you know, there's lots of work that can be done in terms of mental well-being, you know, and all the other pillars of lifestyle medicine.
[12:41] Just so I understand the timeline a little bit more. So you say that your father died. How long ago did he die? He was age 46. I was about, I just turned 17 years old. I'm now 41. So I don't know how many years that's been. It's been quite a long time. It's been quite a long time. And so when he died, were you guys in a dire situation as a family, as far as having to bring in money, just your mom was working, or were you guys able to make ends kale?
[13:21] So my father had left a lot of debt. Luckily, we were able to still run the house. You know we didn't live in the best you know house and circumstances um but you know we did have a roof over our head um my mom worked two jobs and luckily in the uk you know we get a lot of help from the government so back then when i entered medical school i didn't have to pay any tuition fees um so actually you know i'm very grateful for that you know six years of education that I benefited from without having to pay the extortionate fees. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, in reading a little bit about you, I know that you, and the reason I'm diving into this is because I think it is all super helpful because it all, I think, forms, it helped form and kind of dictate the kind of doctor that you would become and your deep sense of empathy for your patients. But you also suffered from what, some anxiety and OCD? Yeah, so I mean, I don't think I fully accepted or realized, you know, because mental health wasn't something that was talked about, especially in my culture, especially in the time I grew up, really.
[14:48] And I did have anxiety in one form or another. I had an eating disorder as a child. I was always anxious. People would comment that I was anxious, but I think it all came to a head when I had my second child. OCD was a way of me trying to control everything around me, really. I thought it gave me control, when in fact it was given the opposite. Can you give me an idea of what were some OCD tendencies that you had? So I know most people think of obsessive-compulsive disorder around cleanliness, but actually there can be a number of different obsessions that people have.
[15:28] Mine, I think the way I... The way I look at it is the fact that, you know, growing up as a child, I didn't have that ideal house, that ideal upbringing. And so when I finally got that house, we moved to a really nice place. And my OCD was centered around the house, you know, damage to the house. So, you know, if something would fall and it would dent something.
[15:58] My compulsion would be to check it. So it did you know not many people knew about it only some very close friends if they came over or my mother and and my partner really um but I worked through it um with therapy but I think also you know making the nutritional changes you know the effects it has on your gut microbiome all of those things really helped and even though I didn't I did some CBT some cognitive behavioral therapy. But actually, I think just working on the anxiety in general, and the past trauma has really helped me overcome the OCD. You know, everybody is always living with something.
Journey into Lifestyle Medicine
[16:41] It's not like, you know, if you have heart disease, it's not like it's suddenly gone. If you go back to the same foods that have caused it in the first place, you know, you start getting the symptoms back so it's always a work in progress really yeah so so you were so you're able to reach out get some help plant-based diet and some other things and um and it sounds like you're in a really solid place now yeah definitely yeah yeah wonderful and so you have been practicing this kind of lifestyle medicine for how many years?
[17:24] So I would say I only took it very seriously about four years ago. And I think that's when I actually came across your sister's channel. I went plant-based way before then, but I think I was having a few doubts. And when COVID hit, literally I just thought, you know, sod it. So I kind of didn't have any nutrition. I didn't have any nutritional knowledge when I first started. I kind of just said, look, I'm going to challenge myself to make everything out of whole foods. and I lost weight and I felt better. But then, you know, during COVID, I relied a lot on those, you know, we couldn't go out. So then it was like, oh, I'll try this product and that product or the kind of ultra processed foods. And I'm not saying they don't have their place sometimes in people that are transitioning or, you know, as a celebration, but, you know, that was forming the bulk of my calories. I regained some weight back. And then I was kind of questioning the sustainability of a plant-based diet. And then as you watch things on YouTube, you know, it went down the rabbit hole. I saw your sister's video with your mom, um, showing how to cook onions without oil. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember watching that and I'm going, is that really possible? Um, and then I was worried, you know, if I introduce, um, you know, this many carbohydrates, Am I going to be okay? And actually, the exact opposite happened. And I was just amazed. Yeah.
[18:53] You are currently, are you working with a hospital? What kind of organization? Because it sounds like whoever you're working with is kind of in alignment with your values as a physician. Yeah. So I'm not currently working in those organizations, but I have been a specialist for four years in chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia. I started out in Hertfordshire Community Trust. So it's an area around London and then also for University College Hospital in London as well. So I worked within those specialties for about four years, but I brought that expertise into just general practice. So I work in general practice at the moment.
Understanding Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia
[19:39] Well, I'd love, I think it's time, I mean, I'd love to jump into your specialty of chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. I think for starters, I think it might be nice for the listeners, as well as myself, to understand what is your definition of both.
[20:00] Um so chronic fatigue syndrome is a condition where there are three cardinal symptoms so there's no real test for it it's a diagnosis of exclusion that means we have to make sure that there isn't anything else contributing to the condition but it's a syndrome it's people share the same constellation of symptoms and the three symptoms are um post-exertional malaise that means every time you do a physical activity you are tied out of kilter of the activity it might be delayed it might be I don't know you emptied the dishwasher you went to met a friend and then you know six hours later or a day after you are extremely fatigued you can't you know move or function the way you used to and then you have unrefreshing sleep so it doesn't matter how long you sleep for that sleep is not refreshing and that's you know without any other condition contributing to it so you can't have something like um i don't know obstructive sleep apnea for example that's disturbing your sleep um and then brain fog so obviously we need to make sure especially in our elderly patients that it isn't you know dementia.
[21:14] But that's another symptom as well and then you get lots of other I don't want to use the word minor but these aren't the cardinal symptoms so for a diagnosis you need all three of those but then there can be other symptoms like temperature hypersensitivity it might be POTS so every time you stand up your heart rate goes up your blood pressure may go down you may feel dizzy so there's loads of other symptoms people may find that they get infections quite easily, their glands swell up. So those type of things. Oh, you asked what fibromyalgia is as well. I did. I did.
[21:49] And again, that is a condition of exclusion as well. I mean, you can also have metabolic conditions like heart disease, for example, and also have fibromyalgia. But it's a diagnosis of exclusion in the sense that you have chronic widespread pain and it's not accounted for by any other physical conditions such as rheumatoid arthritis for example so you have normal blood markers but it causes very extreme chronic pain and you can have overlap with chronic fatigue syndrome so many patients that have widespread pain can have fatigue but we tend to diagnose according to which symptoms are the worst so if the fatigue is the worst then we say chronic fatigue syndrome with features of fibromyalgia and the other way around if the pain is worse than the actual fatigue. That's really, really interesting.
[22:45] The chronic fatigue between the malaise, the brain fog, and then the not great sleep, that sounds like it could be a lot of Americans these days, especially with the amount of screen time, sleep patterns, and.
[23:07] Crappy diet, not moving, you know, nothing that's really feeding your, your body and your soul and your spirit. But the, the, the, the fatigue that you're talking about, that, that is a whole nother thing. And, and I have a very close friend that's exhibiting everything that you're talking about there between the two. And I think it's, it's probably the, just to kind of personalize this a little bit. I think that it's the deep-seated fatigue, and I think that the pain has been maybe masked by some steroids that they are taking to help with that pain.
[23:54] So painkillers don't really help with fibromyalgia, and some actually can make it worse, especially opiate medication so we really don't advise you know giving people things like codeine and morphine um you know neuropathic painkillers can be helpful but there's kind of like a risk benefit it's like the sliding scale because it may help your pain but it makes you more fatigued so we take a very holistic approach to treating the symptoms so it's very much aligned with lifestyle medicine um you know looking at mental well-being looking at nutrition sleep all of those things. But unfortunately, you know, there's not been much research in these conditions. They're not, you know, sexy to research compared to something like heart disease, and it mainly affects women.
[24:40] So unfortunately, you know, what do we do when we don't know enough about a condition? We just say, well, actually, there's no hope for you. There's no, we can treat the symptoms, but you can't get better from this. And I, you know, I refuse to believe that when we have, you know we don't have evidence of any lasting damage you know um i believe it's not helpful um and in fact it can be dangerous to tell somebody that there's no hope of them getting better um but obviously i'm quite realistic in the sense that i can't tell anybody you know that they're going to be 100 better uh everyone's circumstances are different there are things that aren't under our control too but we can be in
The Holistic Approach to Treatment
[25:23] control of what we can be in control of And we know how powerful lifestyle medicine can be.
[25:28] So I just think that there needs to be more research into it, but the treatment is holistic. There isn't really a pill that's going to take this away. And a lot of my patients are on lots of supplements as well. And again, supplements are there to supplement. If there was a supplement cure of chronic fatigue syndrome, no one would be seeing me on this list of things that they take basically yeah.
[25:58] Give me an idea how many patients are you seeing on average a week, not for chronic fatigue, but just in general. And then I'm wondering what percentage are you seeing that have the chronic fatigue or the fibromyalgia or both? So being tired or being fatigued in general is so common. I think it was estimated to be like a fifth of general practice consultations. It feels like it's a lot more. And my idea might be skewed because everyone's like, oh, go and see her. She's the chronic fatigue doctor. So I probably do get everybody. But I like to say that, you know, fatigue is such a general symptom. It's such a nonspecific symptom of every single condition. Because if you think about the word disease, it's exactly what it says on the tin. Dis-ease, you don't feel well, right? So many people want to have, you know, a neat little box. They want to have a diagnosis.
[26:55] But, you know, what are we going to do with that diagnosis if there's no treatment for it? So I always say, you know, the aim is not to give you a label it's how am i going to actually get you better so often you know many of my patients are diabetic for example will go well you know it can't be the it can't be the diabetes because i had the diabetes diagnosis a while ago i've only become fatigued now you know our health's not static and i try to explain you know why would you be fatigued with diabetes for example you know you're not getting glucose into your cells you've got insulin resistance how are you going to feel when you're not putting your main source of energy it's not getting into your cells you're going to feel fatigued aren't you so i like to try and explain in a relatable way not putting blame on anyone not saying that this is your fault but in a more positive way that there's lots we can do about it yeah as you i think have said it's it it's such an invisible illness. And so since it's hard to kind of point your finger on exactly what's going on, looking at it holistically, I guess, makes so much sense. What percent of your patients would you say, you are able to treat and get them healed or better?
[28:19] It's a difficult one. I can't really say, to be honest with you. Unfortunately, it's kind of like you're working in a very closed system. So it's, as you know, like the healthcare system is upside down. So it's very reactive, not proactive. So we're not preventing these conditions. And actually the treatment is geared towards living with the symptoms as opposed to getting better. Nutrition isn't part of that. As a doctor, I'm working in the capacity of a doctor. There's only so much, you know, from one appointment that someone could take away from me. I hope I, you know, sow a seed and I give lots of resources, but whether they take that away, you know, it's very hard for me to know how many of my patients are fully better. But, you know, even if they make a 5% change in any of those pillars, there is a difference, you know, there is worth doing. And one of my patients actually contacted me recently. And she said, Oh, I heard you left. And I'm just really sad because I wanted to come see you and tell you I lost eight kilograms. And I said, Are you feeling better? And she goes, Yeah, my pain is a bit better. So you know, I can't really say how many people have 100% got better. Because unfortunately, and working in a system that hasn't bought into that yet.
[29:39] So when they come to see you, do they know that you are a lifestyle medicine physician and the six pillars that you're going to be, advocating for? Yeah, I say it from the outset, to be honest with you.
[29:56] And I do have a spiel where I explain, you know, the 90% of disease is influenced by epigenetics and the 10% is genes where, you know, we may not have any control over. And that usually does go down well. And, you know, I gauge it, you know, if I realize that that person's not ready to hear it, you know, I won't go there, but I might sow a little seed. You know, it might be that I meet people where they're at. So if I know that they're not going to overhaul their diet, what can we work on? You know, it might just be breakfast, for example, and we'll work on that. Or, you know, that person's not being able to go outside at all. So we focus on, you know, having a bit of sunlight throughout the day. So I try to meet people where they're at.
The Role of Epigenetics
[30:40] When you say 90% is epigenetics. For the PlanStrong listener that doesn't know what epigenetics, what that word means, what does that word mean? That your genes can be switched on and off by your lifestyle. So we have a feedback with our environment and what we literally feed ourselves. It's not just our nutrition, but it's also, you know, what people wear around, you know, whether they're toxic or positive, whether, you know, what we listen to, you know, what we read, all of those things.
[31:17] So is it fair to say then that the vast majority of the patients that you see come to see you for chronic fatigue and or fibromyalgia? Is that fair to say? Yeah, but I obviously, I'm a general practitioner, so I treat every single condition. And like I say fatigue is part of most conditions anyway so you know we know a lot we know a little about every single condition yeah i'm just like i'm trying to understand over in the uk what the, what the ethos is like there around plant-based nutrition and lifestyle medicine is it something that is like widely accepted is it just starting like where's the needle like here you know here in the in america you know we're we're if this is all you know full-on you know we're here right and i'm wondering where you are in the uk.
[32:20] Probably there um so not as not as much as the us but maybe i'm only seeing it within the plant-based space right so i don't know how it is in the bigger environment um i'm gonna say it is difficult and it's mainly not actually the patients it's other health professionals so there's two types so there will be ones that haven't bought into lifestyle medicine at all and feel it's dangerous you're giving that advice um and over investigates and over medicate um then you've got people having the lifestyle medicine conversation but it can be in a different way it could be keto for example and we all know you know how that is in terms of it yes it may cause some weight loss initially but it increases your risk of all-cause mortality and cardiovascular disease by above 50 percent And so unfortunately, you know.
[33:15] We have, you know, the diabetes care here is very much around low carbohydrate diets. We've got someone called Dr. David Unwin, who is kind of propagating the whole low carbohydrate, meat heavy approach, unfortunately, so that you get a lot of that misinformation. Yeah. So you've got it. You've got that over there as well. I'm sorry. We have, but we have a wonderful organization, Plant-Based Health Professionals UK, headed by Dr. Shireen Kazam, who's making, you know, so much progress in terms of, you know, changing hospital food, for example, and, you know, Dr. Gemma Newman as well. So there are, you know, there are doctors out there, but I think lifestyle medicine is still in its infancy here. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I saw on one of your YouTube channel videos, you had one of your doctor physician friends on there and you two were talking about the organization organizations and societies. And is there consensus that. Within these organizations around a prescribed nutrition pattern that makes the most sense for prevention of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, cancer, et cetera. And do you remember what your answer was?
[34:40] Yes. So it was Dr. Sandhya Raman who was on my show and she's a brilliant physician. She basically writes the guidelines for the cardiovascular societies. And she was saying that there is consensus among every single society about a more plant forward diet. But unfortunately, like you know, in medical school, we are not taught nutrition.
[35:02] So everyone's idea of good nutrition really differs. Well, I guess what's surprising to me, and I'd love to know your opinion, is that if the European Society of Cardiology, the European Society for the Study of Diabetes, the American College of Cardiology, the American Heart Association, if all of these associations have put plant-based first and foremost and front and center, how is it that the physicians that are required to have continuing education credits, right, so many per year, have not got on board with this message? Are they just, like, what's your opinion? Because they're focusing on allopathic medicine. They're focusing on, you know, the drugs that treat a certain condition.
Challenges in the UK Healthcare System
[35:53] Also, within the UK, we have the National Health Service. And I think it's amazing, you know, at the point, you know, anyone gets ill, you know, we have a free healthcare service. It's very, very valuable. But then, you know, with the fact that, you know, the government is funding this, And the negatives are that, you know, resources are short, right?
[36:16] Health professionals have 10 minutes per patient. You know, literally someone's got to come through the door and lift their shirt up to be examined and the 10 minutes is gone. So it's hard to have those conversations within that time. But also the education is around the reactiveness to a condition as opposed to actually preventing them in the first place. And I really do wish that we had that focus because, you know, a lot of the complaints are, you know, I can't get an appointment with my doctor. You know, the ambulance has taken hours to get there. But it doesn't matter how many appointments, how many ambulances you provide. You know, if everyone's getting chronically ill, if the numbers are rising, we're never going to meet that demand. That's the problem. Well, I mean.
[37:07] It's so unfortunate to me that we cannot get consensus, even though it sounds like we do have consensus in the societies, that is then filtered out to the public that, hey, if we can all rally together and eat in this fashion, if we can collectively get behind this, we can do amazing, amazing things for the health of this country, for our health care system, for the physicians that are that are trying to take care of us. You know, your former British prime minister, Winston Churchill. He said regarding Americans, well, actually, he said the the greatest asset any country can have are healthy citizens. Right. And then he followed. that up by saying regarding America, he said, and the thing about America is America always gets it right, but only after they've tried everything else.
[38:12] So, you know, you guys need to get, you guys need to be the shining example of what can be, and then we can follow suit.
[38:19] I think, you know, there's this kind of misconception that we're not as unhealthy as America.
[38:26] But actually, I've heard this saying that we, the British, the British population um we're the las vegas of of europe in terms of when it comes to health which sounds horrible to say but unfortunately you know the stats are even in developing countries um there is this big divide and and chronic illness is becoming more and more popular the more westernized our diets are becoming um and you know i wish you know all physicians read the china study um to know you know that is going back to what our ancestors ate and that's what i'm trying to educate the south asian community as well um that you know dairy isn't naturally part of our diet you know it's a it's a more of a western um concept that has been kind of like integrated into our diets a lot more so it's difficult and unfortunately you know politics is very polarized as well and to get votes and things you know the last government was very much kind of like we support our farmers dairy farmers so I believe when I turned vegan there was a lot of information out there about plant-based diets about the environment but suddenly there's this kind of anti-vegan movement going on and.
[39:54] You know, in terms of plant-based milks, for example, as well, they can't be classed as milks, they're called drinks. And you think that wouldn't have much of an impact. But even my mum, you know, seeing that on the shelf, she's like, well, should we really get this? It sounds like it's ultra processed because it doesn't say milk, it says drink. So, you know, there's a lot of these changes happening and backlash from, you know, those industries. So we know that healthcare is not as it's not as simplistic as this is the evidence. And this translates into our practice, because there's lots of influences there, including, you know, politics as well. So unfortunately, that is the case. Yeah, well said.
Tila's Mother's Health Journey
[40:36] Tell me a little about your mom, and your mom's health journey and where she is today.
[40:42] Um so i think that was a driver to me to learn more about lifestyle medicine too um so shortly after sort of i came across your sister's channel and i started practicing lifestyle medicine and did the plant-based um nutrition um certificate my mom was diagnosed, with an adequate no carcinoma in situ so that's a um type of lung cancer that had not spread um that was in one one of her lungs um she'd just come back from india and covid had just hit and she's been losing weight no she was never a smoker my dad was a heavy smoker though and he was smoking around her um so i i don't know for example but um.
[41:31] She yeah she she had lost weight I was worried about her so she had a chest x-ray which showed up a shadow and that shadow didn't move or shift with antibiotics so then she had a ct scan and, just surprised to hear that this was a lung cancer in situ and you know given my anxiety, and the environment around us at the time obviously there was covid vaccinations went out and I was just really worried for her. She had an operation. She was told that you could leave it alone because the likelihood is this is slow growing or we could remove it and actually, you know, you're quite fit and well, you know, the chances of us removing it safely are quite good. So she had the tumour removed, but then our sort of guidelines are that each patient needs to be followed up for five years with serial ct scans and the serial ct scans found that there were changes in both lungs that had appeared that could be cancerous so there's always that worry and that trepidation but what are we in control of again you know we can only do so much so um.
[42:45] I kind of got my mum into plant-based nutrition. And the funny thing is during COVID, I was going to her house, which is 20 minutes away to pick up things or drop food around. And she'd say, I've made this thing with dairy in it. You can have it sometimes. And I said, no, I can't have it.
[43:03] Mum, I'm vegan. And she'd go, oh, you're too extreme, blah, blah, blah.
[43:08] And then we got COVID and I thought this is the perfect time for mum to come and stay with us because we know we've had the infection we won't be infectious to her now and she came to stay with me and actually she saw this is not hard as she enjoyed the way she's eating you know half her plate is salad it's our cultural foods just made in a healthier way and she embraced it and also you know her exercise tolerance had gone down really low because you know she was told this myth that you must not move So she was staying in bed all day and I'm phoning her going, I don't want you to have a pulmonary embolus. You need to walk up and down the stairs at home. So literally her exercise tolerance had really reduced. She had, you know, a third of her lung removed as well. So obviously that was going to have an impact. So I got her to exercise. I got her to walk to the park and slowly but surely she increased that. You know, she now has a massive backpack and she goes to work 40 minutes away. And she's got so much energy she's dancing and everything and actually every time we got to a doctor's appointment so we had it's our fourth year follow-up i think she's actually only got six months left of follow-up and they told her that actually the uh changes have regressed one lung there's completely no change i can't say it's attributed to the diet we think it may be an infection or non-specific inflammation as opposed to a cancer but you know she's still.
[44:37] She's still taking charge of her health in in a way she can if you know what i mean so you know we're not helpless you know we're trying to do something and she will always you know tell the doctor you know it's thanks to my daughter's um nutrition advice it's thanks to lifestyle medicine and i'm just like mom they don't even they're just be please be quiet well she's excited and And you two are adorable on your YouTube channel. So nicely done. Yeah, yeah. It's so great that she has embraced it so wholeheartedly. How do your children feel about it? Are they all about it or do they have some, any kind of misgivings that they're missing out on?
Family Embracing Plant-Based Living
[45:25] You know, the other stuff. So they were quite young when we transitioned. My son was just a baby, so he doesn't really remember eating meat. My daughter does. And I remember at first there was a little bit of arguments over it. And I turned vegan before everybody else. And I was making completely plant-based meals at home, but they would eat it outside. But then slowly but surely, everyone just embraced it. They're not 100% vegan, so they will have some dairy outside.
[45:55] Um, but it's difficult because my partner's not fully vegan, but he is like 99% of the time. Uh, he, he drinks plant-based milk. So, you know, I, I'm hoping I get them in fully, um, soon. And my daughter keeps saying, you look, when I go to high school, I'll be in more control of, you know, uh, having more plant-based meals. So my son has actual, uh, vegan meals at school, um, because we noticed that he was having gastric reflux uh with dairy so that's completely gone now um and he had eczema which has got better as well so i mean they enjoy it they kind of like educate their friends as well so i have to tell them that they have to be careful with the way they put it out there but um they they enjoy food and you know whatever i prepare or my husband prepares so and my they love making salads now as well um my daughter's a master at um at doing salad dressings.
[46:59] Does she have a favorite salad dressing that you can share with us it's a really simple one i've shared it on my channel it's just sumac and it's pomegranate molasses basically but it just gives this nice sweet tangy flavor, What was the first thing you said? Pomegranate molasses. No, but before that you said somac? Somac. So it's a Middle Eastern spice. It's kind of like dried berries that's ground into powder. It's really nice. It's kind of like purplish burgundy in color.
[47:35] And it can replace salt as well. So, you know, I know that you don't use salt in your cooking. So that is a really good replacement. Yeah. Will you spell that for me? Sumac. S-U-M-A-C.
[47:53] All right. I'm going to see if we have any of that here. That sounds really good. With a pomegranate kind of, you said juice or like a... So I use, I'm probably pronouncing it wrong, but Odysseus brand. And I don't know if you get it in the U.S., but it's just 100% pomegranate molasses. So it's the syrup. There's no sugar or anything. It's just the juice, basically. Wow. That sounds like it's pretty thick. It is. A little goes a long way. I always get told, like, sometimes I just pour it in and I was like, Mom, you've put too much. And it's like liquid gold. What I like about that, too, is it sounds like it's a sweet salad dressing, very, you know, obviously very heavy, which I am a huge fan of. It goes really well with Indian food. For some reason, it just goes really well. And it's very Moorish. And I like to put sweet. I like to put fruit inside my salad as well. So I like to add grapes or apples. And it's just really nice. Yeah. Do you have a favorite breakfast that you make for yourself and or your kids?
[49:09] Um, there's this thing that I've become really obsessed with and it's called, uh, kagina. And it's basically like, it's originally made with eggs and it's from this, uh, region in the South of India called Hyderabad. And literally they, um, saute onions, garlic and chilies. And then, um, obviously fry the eggs and I'm not using eggs. So I use silken tofu and I add things like nutritional yeast, black salt to give it that eggy flavour and turmeric. And literally just saute that. I add some plant-based milk and some cornflour. And then I make this kind of sauce, which is kind of with tamarind and red chillies, which I've ground up. And I put that on top. If you don't like spicy food, you don't have to add that and garlic. So it's really nice and savoury. And we went on a family holiday recently and everyone loved it. And actually one of the uncles thought I had made eggs and I was like, I'm vegan. How did you think I made eggs? But that's how good it was.
[50:14] What about dessert? Your kids have a favorite dessert? Um, what do I make that they like? I mean, any, I love silken tofu, as you've heard, basically, just making that into a dessert. Chocolate mousse, for example. I make a gajar kahalva. So that's basically a, it's like an Indian version of carrot cake, basically. But I make a cheesecake out of it, again, using silken tofu. I use oats and walnuts as the base and some maple syrup to sweeten, but you can use dates instead. Um that really goes down well as well um so they like that um yeah how could they not, and when you go whole food plant-based you kind of appreciate things for what they are so fruit suddenly tastes sweeter than it used to and i noticed like i sometimes hesitate giving my desserts out to people that are used to still having that richness of dairy and things because you know, I don't like sickly sweets. I like things to be just about sweet, but not too sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect.
Closing Thoughts and Resources
[51:19] Well, this has been wonderful, Tila. Really wonderful. I really appreciate your time today. Where can people find you? What's the best way if they want to check out your YouTube videos with your mom or do you have an Instagram channel? Yeah. So I've got Instagram, YouTube, and I've got a website. So it's Plant Promoting Doctor. And the YouTube and Instagram has underscores between each word. And the website is www.plantpromotingdoctor.com. Plant Promoting Doctor. Dr. Tila.
[51:57] Wonderful. Well, I hope you enjoy your night. Thank you. And please give my best to your children and your mother and... I hope to see you one day. Thank you. Yeah. Can you give me a plant strong fist bump on the way out? Boom. I don't know if it's the right side. There you go. Right there. Boom. All right. Bye. Bye. Thank you.
[52:29] I absolutely love how Dr. Kansagra brings so much compassion and wisdom to our patients and reminds us that healing isn't necessarily about a quick fix. It's about caring for the whole person. If you're interested, she has a fantastic YouTube channel, and she also works one-on-one with people who are looking to improve their health and their well-being through lifestyle changes, particularly by adopting a more whole food, plant-strong diet. If you want more information on that, you can visit plantpromotingdoctor.com. And as always, I'll be sure to drop a link in the show notes to make it a snap. But until next week, do me a favor. Be compassionate with yourself. And if you need to, seek the help that you may need. And as always, always keep it Plant Strong.
[53:29] The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich and Ami Mackey. If you like what you hear do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones you can always leave a five-star rating and review on apple podcast or spotify and while you're there make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode as always this and every episode is dedicated to my parents Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr. and Ann Crile Esselstyn thanks so much for listening.
