#102: Julieanna Hever - The OG Plant-Based Dietitian
Julieanna Hever is “The Plant-Based Dietitian”
One of the many side benefits of this global plantstrong community -- besides a daily dose of health, motivation, and education -- are the long-lasting friendships developed with people along the way, especially with the pioneers who have long laid the groundwork for those of us out there today.
I’m sure you feel this way too. When you are so invested and so passionate about something, you can’t help but develop a deep respect and mutual admiration with the people you meet in your journey.
Today’s guest is one of those people. Julianna Hever and I have been contemporaries and friends in the plant-based movement together for well over a decade. In fact, as we discuss today, she was one of the first authors to actually put the phrase, “plant-based” in the title of a book...and now, without a doubt, “plant-based” is having its moment!
Since then, she’s written multiple books including the crafty “Vegiterranean Diet,” The Healthspan Solution” and the forthcoming, “The Choose You Now Diet” due out in December.
She also just recently launched her own “Choose You Now” podcast that I guested on just a couple of weeks ago. Today, we turn the tables and I shine the spotlight on the marvelous career and work of THE ORIGINAL plant-based dietitian herself, Julianna Hever.
You'll learn:
Julieanna's "Galileo Moment" when she learned the truth about health and nutrition
How she fought to use the phrase, "plant-based" in her first book
The biggest mistakes beginners make when adopting a plant-based diet
Why and when someone should be gluten-free
How she has pivoted to teaching her clients about "adding life to your days" in her book, The Healthspan Solution
The importance of modeling behavior for both parents and children
About Julieanna Hever
There is nothing Julieanna loves more than diving into a colossal bowl of salad. Known as The Plant-Based Dietitian, Julieanna has a Bachelor of Arts degree in Theatre from UCLA in and a Master of Science degree in Nutrition from Cal State Northridge, bridging her three biggest passions for food, performing, and helping people.
As a Registered Dietitian, Julieanna has authored six books, including The Healthspan Solution, Plant-Based Nutrition (Idiots Guide), Vegiterranean Diet, and two peer-reviewed journal articles on plant-based nutrition for healthcare professionals (in Journal of Geriatric Cardiology and Permanente Journal). Julieanna is the host of The Choose You Now Podcast and her new book, The Choose You Now Diet, will be published in December 2021.
Past projects have included being the host of What Would Julieanna Do?; giving a TEDx talk; writing as the nutrition columnist for VegNews Magazine; and teaching the eCornell Plant-Based Nutrition Certification Program. She recently co-hosted Science and Saucery and Facebook Watch’s Home Sweat Home, and has appeared on Harry, The Dr. Oz Show, The Steve Harvey Show, Reluctantly Healthy, The Marie Osmond Show, and E! News.
New adventures include speaking, presenting, traveling, helping a wide variety of clients achieve their goals, and sharing her passion for healing and happiness eating a whole food, plant-based diet.
Episode Resources
Julieanna Hever Website and Resources
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Full Transcript
Julieanna Hever:
Success on an unhealthy diet is just a series of small little micro successes. So, saying no to that, saying yes to that, and choosing you over and over and over again. And so, my message to my clients are, you're not broken. You can have this. You can have whatever you want. You can have your ideal weight. You can have really good blood work. You can have whatever you want. You just have to choose it. And you choose it again and again.
Rip Esselstyn:
Season 3 of the PLANTSTRONG podcast, explores those Galileo moments where you seek to understand the real truth around your health, and dare to see the world through a different lens. This season, we honor those courageous seekers who are paving the way for you and me. So, grab your telescope, point it towards your future, and let's get PLANTSTRONG together.
Rip Esselstyn:
Fueling for performance is something that I am intimately familiar with, whether I am recharging after my morning master swim here in Austin, or if I'm gearing up for a big family hike through the Greenbelt, or frankly, if I just got a huge day at the PLANTSTRONG World headquarters, oats are always a key ingredient in my morning bowl.
Rip Esselstyn:
If you haven't tried our new PLANTSTRONG granolas, you're missing out. We just launched these four guilt-free flavors in June. And members of the community had been literally gobbling them up. They come in classic oatmeal raisin, all-American apple pie, tahini chocolate chip, and crisp mixed berry crumble, which incidentally is what I had this morning, over my Rip's big bowl cereal.
Rip Esselstyn:
All are handmade in small batches. They're date-sweetened, no added sugar, oil free and 100% whole grain. Simply toss a bag in your backpack and you'll be always prepared when hunger strikes. Simply head over to our website at plantstrongfoods.com and pick up a sampler pack of these four all-new varieties while they're available. Can't wait to hear which one is your favorite.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now, another announcement if you haven't heard, our 10th Anniversary Plant-Stock celebration is online and on sale. Grab a friend and join us virtually from September 8th to the 12th as we honor all the progress that's been made over the last decade with the science, with the food and with the movement as a whole. It is nothing short of phenomenal what has happened. This will be the perfect way to invite that family member who desperately needs a green leafy intervention to come take a drink from the fire hose and learn everything they can about the why and the how of PLANTSTRONG living.
Rip Esselstyn:
And in honor of our 10th anniversary and as part of my mission to reach as many people as possible with the good news about plants, group tickets are just $10 a piece when you buy five. Ten bucks gets you access to life-changing information to help start or strengthen your PLANTSTRONG journey.
Rip Esselstyn:
Our lineup this year includes the ultimate rock stars. Can you say T. Colin Campbell, Caldwell Esselstyn, Dr. Michael Greger, Dr. Michael Clapper, Kristi Funk, Will Bulsiewicz, the Sherzais. The list goes on and on and on. Don't miss out. Visit plantstrong.com/plantstock to sign up today.
Rip Esselstyn:
Just got to give out a huge kale, yeah. Are you feeling it? I am feeling it today. I want to welcome you to another episode of the PLANTSTRONG podcast with me. Rip Esselstyn. One of the many side benefits of this global PLANTSTRONG community that I've been a part of now for, gosh, almost three decades is, besides offering a daily dose of health and motivation and education are the super important and long-lasting friendships that I've developed with people along the way, especially with the pioneers who came well before me whose shoulders I am proudly standing on top of.
Rip Esselstyn:
And I'm sure you know what I'm talking about when I say when you are so invested and so passionate about something, that you just can't help but develop mutual respect and deep admiration for the people that you meet on the journey. Today's guest is one of those people for me. Her name is Julieanna Hever.
Rip Esselstyn:
And she and I have been contemporaries and friends in the plant-based movement for well over a decade. In fact, as we discussed today, she was the first author to actually use the phrase, "plant-based" in the title of her first book. And now, without a doubt, plant-based is having its moment in the sun and it is not going anywhere.
Rip Esselstyn:
Since writing her first book, Julieanna has written multiple books, including the crafty the Vegiterranean Diet, the Healthspan Solution, and the up and coming, the Choose You Now Diet that's due to be released in December. She also just launched her own Choose You Now podcast that I was a guest on a few weeks ago. And today, we're going to turn the tables and I'm going to shine the spotlight on the marvelous career and important work of the OG, the original plant-based dietitian herself, Julieanna Hever.
Rip Esselstyn:
Hey, everybody. Rip Esselstyn with the PLANTSTRONG podcast. And today I have an old friend. We go back, gosh, probably the 2009, 2010. She is one of the OGs of the plant-based movement. And that's Julieanna Hever. Julieanna, welcome to the podcast.
Julieanna Hever:
Thank you so much, Rip. It's so nice to be here with you.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's great to see you. I think the last time that I saw you was in February of 2020, if I'm not mistaken, and we were in the Miami airport.
Julieanna Hever:
I think it was actually 2019 because it was prior to everything.
Rip Esselstyn:
Really?
Julieanna Hever:
And I was at the airport. We were leaving from the cruise and I ran into your whole family at the airport.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah, I think it was maybe at the luggage. Was that right? Was it the luggage?
Julieanna Hever:
No, actually we were at the ticket booth. And we were checking in to get on our flights home. And then, there was a whole Esselstyn family.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm glad one of us has a really good memory around that.
Julieanna Hever:
Well, you gave me a bracelet that I fell in love with. You had this really cool vegetable bracelet. I was like, "Oh, I just loved your bracelet so much." And you actually just handed it to me. And it was so nice. And I still have that. And it was really good.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, good, good, good. So, well, we got lots to talk about. You have done so much in the plant-based movement. You are the plant-based dietitian. And you have so many amazing, I think, insights and experience that you've gleaned over the last decade, plus you've written four or five books. You've got your podcast that you started recently.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, I'd love to dive in first with, can you believe, Julieanna, how far and how fast the movement has come in the last decade since you and I were kind of ... When it was fringe, you and I were like getting into it, the Engine 2 diet. You wrote the Idiot's Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition. I mean, we were some of the first ones.
Julieanna Hever:
I know it's wild and as amazing as it is, I never foresee ... I never would have foresaw, foreseen, how would you say that? I never could have predicted that we would be where we are now where you see the term, plant-based ubiquitously around the world. It's changed so much. And we were just sitting there trying to explain and talk. We were just shouting from the rooftops because we had seen such extraordinary things and so much has evolved since then. It's quite extraordinary to watch.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, I mean, you wrote the Idiot's Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition. And for people, that's not a slight. There's an idiot's guide to just about everything, right?
Julieanna Hever:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
And how did that work out that you actually wrote that book?
Julieanna Hever:
Yeah, it's a good question. And thank you for saying that because people get offended. I'm like, "No, no, it's a whole series. They have a dummy series and an idiot's guide series." And I was approached by an agent to write the Complete Idiot's Guide to Vegan Nutrition. And of course, I was like, "Yes, I want to talk about this." And I got the job and I applied and did a chapter and a TOC and everything.
Julieanna Hever:
And when I finally started writing it, I realized, you know what, I really don't want to call it vegan nutrition because I really see that there's this thing about plant-based that is more tangible and it's more inclusive of a definition than vegan. And I'm a dietitian. I'm not here to be on my ethical soapbox.
Rip Esselstyn:
High horse, yeah.
Julieanna Hever:
Yeah, I just really wanted to talk about the nutrition.
Julieanna Hever:
So, I made a whole petition to change the title midway while I was writing. And my agent's like, "Oh, honey, that's never going to happen." But I think they thought there was another compelling argument. And I think that's when your dad was on, was that CNN?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was with Wolf Blitzer and Dean Ornish and my father and it was president, or I should say, the ex-president, Bill Clinton was talking about how he had embraced kind of combination of Ornish and Esselstyn and Campbell and all the research to reverse his heart disease.
Julieanna Hever:
Right. So, that was all happening right then. And so, I think because I use it as part of my pitch to change the title, it was so compelling and so exciting that they accepted it, and they were on board. And I think that that's when that word just got out. It just became really heavily out there. It's really cool.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, it is. I mean, I think back and I think, who knows exactly, but I think the term, "plant-based" was coined, if I'm not mistaken, from Colin Campbell, way back in the day, right.
Julieanna Hever:
Yup.
Rip Esselstyn:
And then, you tell me, were you the first person to actually write a book that had "plant-based" in the title?
Julieanna Hever:
I don't know. I have to look that up.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. But to me, and that yours came out in 2011, right?
Julieanna Hever:
Yeah, very good.
Rip Esselstyn:
2011. And I think now, I just did a quick look at Amazon. There are so many plant-based 101, plant-based this, plant-based that. I just had some people on the podcast that these nutritionists that did the plant-based toddler and babies. Robert Cheeke and Matt Frazier just did the plant-based athlete. You've got so many people, and it's so fabulous that are jumping into this space that have every credential imaginable.
Rip Esselstyn:
You got Dr. Bulsiewicz is doing fiber-fueled as a gastroenterologist. You've got the Sherzais that are doing basically plant-based for brain health and to ward off Alzheimer's. You've got our friends, Nina and Randa Nelson that did the clear skin diet for acne and pimples. And the list goes on and on and on. So, I look at how many books, it's like the plant-based diet seems to be the solution for pimples, for heart disease, for diabetes, for metabolic syndrome, for Alzheimer's. It's wild.
Julieanna Hever:
It's wild. And I feel like, to me the most surprising, okay, we're at a different world now, was I was in Thailand right before the COVID started. And in Thailand, we went on to a random island the middle of nowhere, got off the boat and said, "Oh, where should we eat lunch?" And we went to some random little restaurant in this tiny little island off Phuket. And the restaurant had an entire plant-based menu. It's everywhere.
Rip Esselstyn:
What were you doing in Thailand? Were you holding a retreat or something?
Julieanna Hever:
Yes, I was doing some culinary retreats and doing some touring.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, my gosh, it sounds fabulous.
Julieanna Hever:
Fabulous.
Rip Esselstyn:
Do you any retreats or anything on the horizon?
Julieanna Hever:
Yes. Well, of course, I had some planned last year that had to be pushed. So, I'm hoping to announce soon that we're going to do a plant-based tour in France. And that's probably going to be in June now. We're trying to hold down those dates. So, it's another year, I can't wait. And then as soon as Thailand opens, I can't wait to go back to Thailand.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. How luxurious. And have you or you and your team been doing research to find out where are some plant-based restaurants you can visit in France?
Julieanna Hever:
Well, I've never been to France. Yeah, I'm trying to go. But this company actually does this. They've done these tours. And it's all like, they have the chef's laid out and it's like everything is completely vegan. Even the wine is vegan, so it's going to be kind of a fun adventure, not necessarily a health retreat everything, more of a fun way to see friends and to see without having to think about the food and enjoy the food.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wonderful. So, this is Season 3 of the PLANTSTRONG podcast. And one of the things I like to ask every guest is when was your Galileo moment. So, like Julieanna, when were you like, "Oh my gosh," like the light bulb went on and you realized, "I've got to go plant-based," or vegan, however you want to call it. And what was the compelling reasons? What was the impetus for that?
Julieanna Hever:
Such a good question. I've been following this question that you're asking this season and I love it so much. And my journey was long. And it was kind of weird. In the stars, it all kind of unfolded to go back to Galileo in a very interesting way. And it all started when I was a teenager. And I grew up in Los Angeles. I was an actress, a dancer, and I was always told to go on a diet to be on camera, to be on stage.
Julieanna Hever:
And so, I was always really interested in studying that stuff anyway, nutrition. And I was reading and reading and reading. And one book that popped up in my queue in the '80s when this all started, not to date myself, but this John Robbins' Diet for a New America. And that planted a major seed. In fact, I just interviewed him recently and talked about this, because it was like a big aha moment for me.
Julieanna Hever:
But I wasn't ready yet. Because, well, there was no internet. I didn't know anybody that was eating this way. So, I was kind of like just winging it. There was no idiot's guide to eating this way. There were no books about this yet that I knew of. So, I tried it. And I just was eliminating animal products.
Julieanna Hever:
And so, what does that mean? I didn't even really know how to cook. So, my mom was like, "Okay, I'll make the steak and you could eat the, whatever, the side dish." I would eat the side dish. I would eat the granola bars. It was not the optimal diet. And so, they were worried because they're good parents. And so, they had an intervention.
Rip Esselstyn:
They literally had an intervention?
Julieanna Hever:
They called their friend, Candy, who was a nurse. And we went to the steak house. And they proceeded to tell me that I'm going to be iron deficient and B12 deficient and protein, all of that. And they made me order a teriyaki steak with a pineapple ring on top. And I remember when that steak got there, in fact, I wrote about this in Vegiterranean Diet because it was kind of traumatizing.
Julieanna Hever:
Because it's like, once you know and you've got this mind frame around something, it's hard to unknow. It's hard to ignore that. And it meant a lot to me. But I did. I got scared and I didn't want to be deficient and all that stuff. So, I took a bite of that steak and slowly, slowly went back to what standard western diets look like, anyway.
Julieanna Hever:
But I kept thinking, okay, vegetarians aren't just dying off. There's more to this story. So, I kept studying it. But it wasn't until I went through graduate school and nutrition and became a registered dietitian, where I really learned how to find out where you get your protein and iron from and dig into the literature and look at those statistics and do an actual analysis on my own and not just rely on someone else's messaging. And when I finished that, and that's when I had kids. So, I was sitting at home because you have nothing to do when you have kids, right?
Rip Esselstyn:
Right. How many kids do you have?
Julieanna Hever:
I have two teenagers.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. Okay, okay. So, anyway, you're home twiddling your thumbs, got nothing to do.
Julieanna Hever:
Yeah. And that's when I started looking back at the science and that's when I met Dr. Campbell. And he kind of mentored me a lot through this. I started teaching for the eCornell course and I started learning. I was like, first of all, I changed my diet very first. I'm like, "I'm just going to do this." And I learned a little bit what that means. And everything changed for my health. I had lifelong acne that disappeared like you said about Nina and Randa. I had sinus infections I would get all the time. My whole life I suffered with sinus infections. My whole life I suffered with GI problems and nothing ever helped.
Julieanna Hever:
And as soon as I changed my diet, as I always say, results are typical, I got completely better. And it was like, this was it. Oh my gosh. I had to implement that with my clients. And that's when I started doing this work. And the book came and then, Dr. Oz Show called. All this stuff just kind of unfolded. It was like I just wanted to talk about it because it was so extraordinary.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So, the first book, the complete idiot's ... I love saying that. The Complete Idiot's Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, what do you find is the biggest mistake that beginners make when they're starting a plant-based diet?
Julieanna Hever:
The biggest mistake has changed since I wrote that book. That book is now 10 years old. I wrote a version two of it. It actually has sold over 100,000 copies, which is quite exciting.
Rip Esselstyn:
That is exciting.
Julieanna Hever:
For me, it was a big deal. And it's changed a lot. As we said at the beginning, things have changed so much. So, back then, it would be like, oh, people didn't know what to eat, so they were, I don't know, veering off and maybe doing the oils and the sugars and stuff like that. But now, everything you could eat, I could eat vegan has changed the world and now, I have literally been having clients come to me for the first time in 16 years, the start about three, four years ago, with the same health problems as omnivores. People that, they're having high blood pressure and high cholesterol and they can't lose the weight.
Julieanna Hever:
And you look at their diet. You always look at the food journal. And there's all of these products that are on the market, the vegan candies and cookies and ice creams and cheeses, and there's just everything. And I'm seeing that that's the biggest mistake now. So, now it's hyper palatable. It's intriguing. It's exciting. And it's changing the way we have to look at plant-based diet.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, isn't that interesting. So, along with the accelerated pace of the plant-based movement, there's also been an accelerated pace of all the new products that are hitting the grocery store shelves Beyond Meat, Impossible, Daiya Cheese, Earth Balance, all that stuff. I was in a store the other day just looking at labels.
Rip Esselstyn:
And I couldn't believe the number of frozen plant-based entrees, pizzas, burritos, enchiladas, and every one of them. And if it was like a 600-calorie serving size, at least half of that or more was coming from fat, right? And typically, three or four different types of oils. So, that is so fascinating to me that that's what you're seeing. And I get it. So, it's the vegan junk food that's out there in spades, calling people's names.
Julieanna Hever:
Right. And that's another reason I like the term that Colin coined at whole food plant-based because when you say vegan, all that means it's an exquisite definition you'd like don't eat anything with animals versus the whole food plant-based. I mean, I eat whole plant foods. And I think that that's more understandable and it's more specific. And so, I think that that eliminates eating these highly processed foods, no matter whether they have animals or not.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to move on from the Complete Idiot's Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition to I think it was your second book, if I'm not mistaken, that was the Vegiterranean Diet, right?
Julieanna Hever:
No. Well, first, I did the Complete Idiot's Guide to Gluten-Free Vegan Cooking. That was a cookbook for the gluten-free vegans. And that was interesting because I was gluten free. And it was challenging at the time. They didn't have all the gluten-free products like they do now, too. So, I did that with Beverly Lynn Bennett. And we did a bunch of recipes that were all, both, and I think gluten free is way harder than plant-based, a million times harder to go gluten free.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Julieanna Hever:
There was that in the interim. And then the next one that you were referring to-
Rip Esselstyn:
So, let me ask you this while you're on that. So, what's your opinion on gluten free? And how many people actually have a gluten intolerance and should be staying away from gluten?
Julieanna Hever:
Great question. I said this was what the book was about. If you have celiac disease, you have to avoid gluten. There's no question. If you have an allergy to either gluten or wheat or one of those derivatives, you have to eliminate that from your diet. If you have an intolerance, there seems to be more and more people that have this intolerance to certain things to many different things. And intolerance could mean all sorts of things. It's not like anaphylaxis, like a real true allergy, but it could be like your stomach is upset or maybe you break out in a rash if you eat this.
Julieanna Hever:
So, depending on there's a wide broad spectrum of symptoms and response to gluten or wheat or whatever it is. And so, if I tell people that if you're in that category, that's up to you. What can you tolerate if you want to. Because there's nothing inherently bad about a bar full of barley. It's a healthy food. There's nothing evil about gluten or something dangerous about gluten. People have vilified it like it's a dangerous thing. Unless you've got celiac or a true allergy, it could be fine in your diet, and it could be healthy.
Julieanna Hever:
I think what I've noticed, too, is that people that say, "Oh, I feel so much better without gluten," it's because they're cutting out cookies and cakes and refined breads and stuff like that. And they're having to focus on eating whole foods. And I think that's why the people that don't have those severe conditions do better when they eliminate it. But for the general population, if you really are fine with it, there's no reason to avoid it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. And so, you wrote that second book, the Complete Idiot's Guide to Gluten Free, was it gluten-free baking or cooking?
Julieanna Hever:
It was gluten-free vegan cooking.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay.
Julieanna Hever:
That's a mouthful.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, narrowing it down, vegan gluten-free cooking. So, how did that book do?
Julieanna Hever:
Oh, very niche, very niche. Because how many people are vegan level then? That was also 2011. I think it was 2011. And how many people are gluten free and vegan? So, it was a limited audience, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah, subset within a subset?
Julieanna Hever:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
And whose idea was that to do a gluten-
Julieanna Hever:
Them, the publishers, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. Well, cool. I mean, sometimes you never know to put it out in the universe.
Julieanna Hever:
True.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Julieanna Hever:
Exactly, exactly. And I learned a lot.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So, let's move on to your third book, the Vegiterranean?
Julieanna Hever:
No. So, this is a trick of the mouth, so it's so hard to say.
Rip Esselstyn:
Vegiterranean, Vegiterranean.
Julieanna Hever:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Vegiterranean.
Julieanna Hever:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
The Vegiterranean Diet. Okay, and tell us what that was about.
Julieanna Hever:
Right. Well, as the name sort of implies, even though it's a trick of the ticket out, is that it's basically, I want it ... Okay. So, I was speaking on a cruise in the Mediterranean. And I was with my mom, accompanied me. And we're sitting in our room and I'm looking at the gorgeous Mediterranean ocean. I'm like, "Why does the Mediterranean diet get so many good props? It's always like the diet of the year and it's so fabulous." I'm like, "How is that possible when you look at the evidence of a plant-based diet?" It just didn't never made sense to me.
Julieanna Hever:
So, I'm like, "You know what, I'm going to get to the bottom of this." And so, that's what I did. I went all the way back to the history of where the Mediterranean diet started. And I uncovered that it's not the olive oil, the fish and the wine that makes that population have healthy benefits. It's actually that it was generally at the beginning, it's mostly whole food plant-based diet, like almost completely plant-based.
Julieanna Hever:
So, then I dug into why the olive oil fit in, because it was times of scarcity and they needed calorie, so olive oil is a great way to get concentrated calorie. But that doesn't mean it was healthy. So, I kind of broke down all the myths about that.
Julieanna Hever:
And then of course, I had to do a ton of recipes. It's so funny because when I first did my first book, they said, "Okay, you have six weeks to write this book and 50 recipes." And I went, "Fifty recipes." I'm like, "I'm a dietitian. I know medicine. I never learned how to cook, what are you talking about?" And I have a toddler and an infant. And I had to teach myself how to cook and develop recipes, and write a book in six weeks.
Rip Esselstyn:
And you did it.
Julieanna Hever:
I did. It was crazy. So, now, every book I've done has turned into ... I become a recipe developer. It just happened. Galileo, right, is in the stars. I don't know how it unfolded, but it did. And actually now, I love cooking and doing. I'm just finishing my eighth book of recipes. So, the Vegiterranean had Mediterranean style recipes, too, so, stuff from the Middle East and from Italy and Greece. And that was fun, too, because I just love that palette.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. And in your research for that book, and I apologize, I don't have it. I didn't read it. The horror.
Julieanna Hever:
I love you anyway.
Rip Esselstyn:
Did it originate in Crete in the 1950s? Was that the true healthy Mediterranean diet?
Julieanna Hever:
That's what I studied and I go back to all of Ancel Keys' work and it was amazing the work that they did. And it's changed so much that if you look at what's happening there now, they've adapted their diet like most of the world, and they don't have those same benefits that they did originally. So, it really is a whole food plant-based diet really is the best diet that we know of. Because anytime you evaluate that, if you look at Okinawa, it's a primarily whole food plant-based diet. If you look at the world's healthiest populations, I love Dan Buettner's work the Blue Zones, they were eating mostly whole plant foods.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah, I heard Jeff Novick, as I'm sure you probably did speak a lot, especially between 2010 and 2015. And he has a great lecture on kind of the Mediterranean diet and how it originated in Crete. And you've got all these different countries that surround the Mediterranean, and which one is the true Mediterranean diet, because each one has a little bit different way of eating.
Rip Esselstyn:
And you look at Greece now, for example, and they're the 16th. The last time I checked, the 16th most overweight country on the planet.
Julieanna Hever:
Really?
Rip Esselstyn:
They're obviously not following the traditional Mediterranean or vegiterranean diet.
Julieanna Hever:
There you go. You got it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Vegiterranean, it's brilliant. Okay, so let's move on to another book that you wrote, the Healthspan Solution. I actually have that one right here. And I know that we were talking before, and you love this book. You love everything that's in it. Can you let us know what do you mean by the Healthspan Solution?
Julieanna Hever:
So, the reason I love this book, first of all, is because I finally got my colored photos and my recipes. Took me all these years.
Rip Esselstyn:
And it's gorgeous. It is absolutely ridiculously gorgeous. Really. I was thinking, "Oh my god, this photography, these dishes." Wow, nice job.
Julieanna Hever:
Thank you. I didn't do the photography. And I'm working with the same publisher for the next book because I was so excited about ... That's what I was really excited about the most. But I'm also excited because plant-based became a thing. And then, I added to what I was learning about healthspan, the healthspan longevity data. And that to me was a really interesting perspective of maybe the ... Because I went around the world for 12, 14 years saying, "No, you can get your protein. No, you can get your iron, but better in plants." My mission was to defend the nutrient adequacy of a plant-based diet.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Julieanna Hever:
Right. That's always the number one question. I know you know. Where do you get your protein? Where do you get your this? And that's what I did. That was literally what I would do. In all the talks I gave, all the Q&As I gave all over the world.
Julieanna Hever:
And I realized when I read this stuff about healthspan and the longevity stuff, that it actually turns out that less, maybe more, that the only way we've ever extended healthspan and longevity and all the model organisms that have been tested from a dietary perspective, it's like the yeast, the primate cousins, everything in between, was with dietary restriction without malnutrition.
Julieanna Hever:
And it looks like a whole food plant-based diet does just that. And maybe that's one of the mechanisms by which it is so efficacious at reducing chronic disease reversing as your father so brilliantly showed. Disease like this, it's maybe the fact that it's not high in essential amino acids and high in heme iron and all that stuff, is why it is so effective. And so, I've moved my work. I played around with the work and it's now more about like, how do we use this to optimize healthspan. Because that's the goal. We want to be healthy. We want to live longer, not just live longer, right? We want to actually have a full and healthy active life and then just go to sleep and be done at 150 or whatever.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. Well, and the subtitle is, How and What to Eat to Add Life to Your Years. Right? And who doesn't want to do that? I mean, nobody. And that's the thing. And you and I know so many people that they have a stroke, they have a heart attack, they have a shot across the bow with a major cancer at the age of 50, 55, and their life basically has been compromised now to a big extent, and the last 15, 20, 25 years of their life are not lived to their fullest by any stretch of the imagination.
Julieanna Hever:
Right.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So, tell me this, with healthspan, just so we can talk about this in an intelligent manner. You have, I think, 10 different healthspan habits. You want to talk about some of those?
Julieanna Hever:
I have to remember them because actually, you're sitting on my book right now.
Rip Esselstyn:
No, no. You don't have to remember them. I can lob ball them to you, if you'd like.
Julieanna Hever:
Sure.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, but the first one is, don't be driven by diet dogma.
Julieanna Hever:
Yes. So, basically, what that was that list of the 10 healthspan habits is basically a summary of how to approach lifestyle because diet is number one. Diet is the number one cause of early death and disability in the world. Now, we all know that. But there's other factors, too. So, in those 10, we go through each if you want. But in those 10, and we include like circadian rhythm, so, sleep and light and exercise and movement, activity.
Julieanna Hever:
And it's interesting because as I'm aging, as we're all aging, I'm starting to think about things differently. I've got these two teenagers, it's like, okay, do I really need to go try to run another marathon? Or do I really need to be? No, I really don't. I'm not feeling that way anymore. I just want to feel good. And so, your perspectives change as the decades go by. And so, we definitely talk about being active rather than hardcore exercise and CrossFit and all this stuff. It's like really intense, and it's not necessarily sustainable for a lot of people. And that's okay.
Julieanna Hever:
So, yeah, but dogma, the first one is about, there's so many things out there. I always say everyone has an opinion about what we should eat. And it's just confusing. And everyone ends up so confused that they're just like, forget it. I'm just going to go have fast food because I just ... Should I have oil, should I not have oil? Carbs are bad, lectins are bad, like all of these things, it's overwhelming for people.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, we'll move on from there. But I want to ask you, so speaking of everybody's got their opinions on everything, have you brought your parents around? Or your mom and dad? Are they plant-based now? Are they supportive of the path you've chosen?
Julieanna Hever:
Oh, Rip. It's so interesting that you asked me that question. Because of what you just said, actually, brought that up. My parents have been fans of me as their daughter, and they came when we did meals for health. They came to all of those and they were watching all of us do that. And they came to all my talks. They've read my books. And they've flirted with it over the years. But on February, they were in Mexico. They live in Mexico part time.
Julieanna Hever:
My father had a stroke and he almost died. And he was in the hospital. And when he finally came to, and I was stuck without a passport, which was really frustrating because I was here in Los Angeles. But I got him on FaceTime for the first time. It was probably a week in or something when he finally was conscious enough. Because my mom at that point was like, "Okay, send me your book," because I couldn't come down. "What are the recipes?" I'm like, you have all these recipes. I'm sending her recipes.
Julieanna Hever:
I'm like, "Come on, you could do this." And my dad looked at me. I'm like, "Dad, do you know what happened?" He's like, "Yeah. I know." I'm like, "You know that this is what I do for my work. I help people in this situation, either avoid it or reverse it." He's like, "Yeah, I know." "So, well, Dad, I want to help you." He's like, "Yeah, Jule, but I have to want to be helped."
Julieanna Hever:
And it hurt. And they forced him to eat healthy for a while. He's in the hospital for a month. And they've since have come back and I've gone out to lunch with him. He's having pulled pork and all the stuff that got him into trouble in the first place. And he just doesn't care. But the doctors, to be fair, his doctor said to him, and thank goodness for your dad and all these amazing physicians out there and the researchers that have changed the narrative in healthcare. But there are still so many doctors, including my father's doctor, who said to him, "Don't have coffee. Don't have alcohol, doesn't matter what you eat."
Rip Esselstyn:
And unfortunately, you hear that, and all of a sudden, if you don't have both feet in that believing in eating whole food plant-based, that's all you need to say, "Okay, I'm okay. I don't need to go there." But I'm sure there's a side of your dad that understands what he needs to do. But like you said, he just isn't willing to commit for who knows why.
Julieanna Hever:
You know, Rip, I've been doing this for a long time. And I was a personal trainer for many years while I was in graduate school. So, like 25 years, I've been a health and fitness industry. And for the majority of those years, I was trying so hard to convince everyone. No, you don't understand. This is amazing. This will change your life and it'll make you feel better. It'll give you everything.
Julieanna Hever:
And I realized that I'm banging my head against the wall. And it was frustrating me because I couldn't convince them. And I finally came to peace. And I said, "Come, surrender to the idea that you have to want it. You have to have your why no matter what. No one else is going to force you or be able to convince you to do so if you don't want it."
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. And I mean, I look at some of the people that are closest to my life as well and they have no interest either, right? And same thing with my father and my mother, it's like they're staring at the answer all the time, yet, I don't know if it's because they're being rebellious or they just feel such an attachment to the old food.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, I'm going to transition. Because you guys, you have a quote in the Healthspan Solution, and it's, "You will find your new favorite foods, but it won't likely happen until after the old food has been off the plate for some time."
Julieanna Hever:
It's a transition. I mean, I love food. I consider myself a foodie. It matters to me. I'm passionate about food. I love my food. I love to enjoy and savor every bite. I'm like, I built my entire career on food. But it's a change. When you're used to certain things, when you're used to especially a hyperpalatable palette that most people are the standard western diet that is, it's so dopamine hitting and it lights up your brain a certain way, that transition to simpler whole foods takes a period of time.
Julieanna Hever:
And there's biochemistry and physiology to explain all this. This is not that anyone's broken. No one's broken. We're just used to eating a certain way. And I always liken it to learning a new language. You learn a few new letters and words. You get a few new ingredients that you maybe never tried. And then you translate that into sentences and paragraphs with new recipes that you find your new favorite recipes that you love, that you should love your food. If you hate broccoli, don't eat broccoli. There's a million other things you can eat.
Julieanna Hever:
And then you become fluent. It becomes your language. You look at the plate a different way. It's delicious. I love to eat. And I always have a goal. I used to have these big gatherings of I'd have friends and family over and my goal was always to get everyone to leave very, very full and very, very happy. And they used to always say, "I can't believe there was no animal products." Like tempt them through their tummy. Like you do that really well, too. It's like, food matters.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, I always tell people, that's how I got a bunch of Texas male firefighters to do this, right?
Julieanna Hever:
Exactly.
Rip Esselstyn:
By just taking their favorite foods and just PLANTSTRONG applying them. Right, right. So, as they said, "This is mantastic." So, that first book, you wrote it in six weeks. You had a toddler. You learned to cook. So, is it fair to say that you now love to cook?
Julieanna Hever:
I love to cook. It's transitioned so far, that when I'm stressed or anything like I feel the most comforted, the most comfortable in the kitchen. And even if I'm not hungry, I'll just go in there and just meal prep. I'll just be like, I just want to chop. I just want to put things together. I put on some music and I'm in my happy place.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, let's say that me and the guys at Fire Station 2 were going to come over for a little dinner. You're going to host us for dinner. What would you serve us?
Julieanna Hever:
Oh, I would probably take a long time to think about it because I want it to be just perfect, but that would be really fun. I hope that you guys are actually going to make that happen. I would make the siracha-stuffed mushrooms from the Healthspan Solution because those are a crowd pleaser. I would make a huge enormous, like you say, shock and awe salad. I love that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Julieanna Hever:
Delicious salad with an amazing dressing. I love to make another seed-based dressing that's creamy. And that's what I had for lunch today.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, wait. So, tell me before you go on, what are some of the ingredients in that dressing?
Julieanna Hever:
The one I made today, I actually posted on my Instagram story. So, it's a Chipotle sauce. It's like a southwest sauce. It's cashew and there's smoked paprika and cayenne. I like everything really hot. And nutritional yeast. And I put red bell peppers, was like the liquid because it gets it really dissolves into ... There's a lot of water in there. And a little bit of ketchup and lime juice. That's it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. Ketchup, I never would have thought of ketchup, ketchup and lime juice. And do your teenagers like your cooking? Are they plant-based?
Julieanna Hever:
Oh my goodness, my teenagers. So, I have not really lived with them for quite a while. It's been this kind of crazy on and off again living with them. And so, they are mostly with their dad because I have super healthy food in my house and they rather be with their dad where they don't have super healthy food. So, it's been a journey. But my daughter when she got into water polo and into boys, she's like, "Okay, Mom, I'm ready to go back to doing what you said. So, what do I do?" And she's like, "Listen."
Julieanna Hever:
And I work with a lot of families and lot of kids and the parents of the kids. And I know what you're supposed to do and we didn't because me and my ex, we're not on the same page about food, unfortunately. Really unfortunately because it's my children.
Julieanna Hever:
But the most important thing with the research anyway is that you role model it, because they don't listen to anything you say, but they watch what you do. So, they've always seen me eat this way and I know that when they're trying, even their dad, they will go in this direction, they will eat this food. But it's not as pretty and seamless as I wish it were with them.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. So, I interrupted you. You were going in to the dinner that you would serve the guys at Firehouse 2.
Julieanna Hever:
Hey, what else? So, we'd do a huge shock and awe salad, some stuffed mushrooms. Maybe I would do the spaghetti squash lasagna. That's in the new book that's coming. It's really kind of fun. I would do a huge fruit ... I have some fruit bowls in the Healthspan Solution that are fruit and salad and nuts and seeds and some nice little flavorings. So, I'd do that for dessert like a big old bowl of deliciousness, of colorful deliciousness. I don't know. I'd probably make you 20 different dishes just so you get to see everything.
Rip Esselstyn:
And what would you serve for a beverage?
Julieanna Hever:
Ah.
Rip Esselstyn:
What's your beverage of choice?
Julieanna Hever:
I am quite a tea girl, but I love to make a big batch of iced in the summer, hibiscus green tea. I have this great hibiscus green tea that has mushrooms in it, but you would never know if I didn't tell you, so it's got the immune enhancing properties and it's so delicious. So, I'll make a huge batch of iced tea to have on tap and then we'd have some sparkling water and whatever else you wanted.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. I'm loving this conversation. And what about spices? What are some of your go-to spices and hot sauces? Because you said you like it hot.
Julieanna Hever:
I do. I mean, when I was in Thailand, I've got some very good friends in Thailand. They can't believe how I can out spicy them because that the restaurant they'll say, Thai spicy or spicy? And my friends will say, "Oh, she wants Thai spicy."
Julieanna Hever:
Because I like it hot. So, I've been trying to do it with more seasoning so you can minimize the salt. So, I love hot sauce. I love all the different types of hot sauces, but some of them tend to be higher in sodium. And so, I'll do like chili flakes, red chili flakes. I love Chipotle powder. I love chili powders, like there's different kinds. I also love curries and that kind of hot, too. And then I just discovered for this new book, I'm going to mess it up, tōgarashi, I think it is. It's a Japanese spice. It's amazing, amazing.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, do you like jalapenos and habaneros and yes?
Julieanna Hever:
I could eat them like this like a pepper.
Rip Esselstyn:
Even a habanero?
Julieanna Hever:
I think so. Have I had a habanero? You know what? I tried with a ghost pepper like that and that was kind of scary. I think that was a little too much for me.
Rip Esselstyn:
No, I've heard ghost is like right at the top.
Julieanna Hever:
Yeah,
Rip Esselstyn:
All right, so you know that my father and also one of the books that I wrote, the Engine 2 Seven-Day Rescue Diet. We're big fans of green leafies. Right? And can you believe? Can you believe how far the research has come on green leafies and how fantastic they are just in the 10 years since you and I first started.
Julieanna Hever:
Extraordinary. I always sign off my podcast, I sign all my books, I've always autographed with leafy green love. When I interviewed your dad in 2010, I think, for my movie. I did an infotainment documentary. Did I get you in there? Did I know you yet?
Julieanna Hever:
And your dad did his green leafy green song and it was the most beautiful song I've ever heard in my life.
Rip Esselstyn:
His rap. It's his rap.
Julieanna Hever:
His rap.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Julieanna Hever:
Brilliant.
Rip Esselstyn:
But so, what are some of the ways you like to get in green leafies? Do you like putting a dressing on top of them? Do you like to steam them? Do you like to eat them raw? Any particular favorites?
Julieanna Hever:
Yes. Well, I always talk about nutrifying your recipes. Like you said, plant-strongifying, so it's like nutrifying. I want you to have leafy greens and cruciferous with everything. So, I had a big salad with tons of different leafy greens like a whole array of different leafy greens. Definitely, if you have them cooked, I like to see them ... If I'm making pasta, my kids were big pasta junkies when I did live with them for their first 14 years. I would always throw in broccoli at the end or spinach or kale at the end of the cooking of the pasta, just getting greens in everywhere. Everything should have green. I agree.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. When was the last time you had animal products of any kind?
Julieanna Hever:
We've had accidental bites a couple times over the years.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Julieanna Hever:
I don't remember the last time.
Rip Esselstyn:
And is there anything that you miss about animal products or animal byproducts?
Julieanna Hever:
No.
Rip Esselstyn:
No?
Julieanna Hever:
Nothing. I love my food. I love eating plants. It's extraordinary. It's changed everything for me.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. What do you think of cheese? I'm not talking about vegan cheese, I'm talking about cheese.
Julieanna Hever:
It's the first thing I recommend people cut out. No matter what their goals are, it helps with everything to eliminate dairy, especially cheese. And that's what caused my ... In fact, I had a conversation with my mom the other day. I'm like, "What was dad eating right before?" Because you think about the blood, the lipemic, the state after you eat a high fat diet and how that can lead. That's when those events tend to take place, a big stroke or a heart attack.
Julieanna Hever:
And my mom said, "Oh, you don't know what he was eating before." I'm like, "Well, I can guess." "No, it was cheese on everything." And I mean, that almost killed him. So, what I've seen over the 16 years of teaching clients one-on-one, I've seen people get rid of not only the acne, asthma, sinus infections, skin infections, autoimmune conditions, cholesterol goes down, blood pressure normalize. Everything changes when you cut out dairy. It's the first thing I recommend.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I refer to cheese as dairy crack.
Julieanna Hever:
It is. Casomorphines, right?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yup, it is trouble with a capital T.
Julieanna Hever:
Agree.
Rip Esselstyn:
Give us just a little bit of a glimpse into the book you're working on that's going to come out, I think later this year.
Julieanna Hever:
December.
Rip Esselstyn:
And then, I'd love to get you back on the podcast when that book drops, but give us a little teaser.
Julieanna Hever:
Okay, well, I'm excited about this. So, it's called the Choose You Now Diet. And like my podcast, the Choose You Now podcast. But both of these concepts emerged from my work, from my conversations with clients. Because my day job is working one-on-one with people to help them transform their diet. And I do a lot of weight loss. It's turned into a lot of weight loss transformations with a plant-based diet.
Julieanna Hever:
But what happens when you talk about food, and this is what my TEDx Talk was about. It's all about how deeply personal and social and I mean, there's so much embedded into food, it's not just what we're eating. It's like, our love, our family, our culture, our religion, our history. Every time is always centered on food. So, when I'm taking my clients on this journey, and I'm having these very intimate conversations, like I love my work. So rewarding, because I'm deeply in their lives, and I'm rooting for them, and I'm like, "Text me."
Julieanna Hever:
I had someone call me with a bag of McDonald's next to him. And I had to talk him off the ledge because they're out at McDonald's. But it's so beautiful when you realize why you eat certain things. And if my dad will let me talk to him. But the stuff that comes up and really success on a healthy diet is just a series of small little micro successes. So, saying no to that, saying yes to that, and choosing you over and over and over again.
Julieanna Hever:
And so, my message to my clients are, you're not broken. You can have this. You can have whatever you want. You can have your ideal weight. You can have really good blood work. You can have whatever you want. You just have to choose it. And you choose it again and again, and again.
Rip Esselstyn:
I love it. I want to have a whole conversation with you just about that. And the Choose You Now podcast, when did you launch that?
Julieanna Hever:
Valentine's Day, because it was all about being in love with yourself, loving yourself. The whole concept of the oxygen mask on an airplane where you put the oxygen mask on yourself first before you can help anyone else. It's about choosing you so you can be your best self for everyone else. But all starts with you making those choices for yourself.
Rip Esselstyn:
Do you find that most people are not in love with themselves?
Julieanna Hever:
Oh, Rip. That's such an interesting question. I think I'm sure that's true sometimes. I think people are afraid to want to take care of themselves because they don't want to be selfish. They think that they need to, especially mothers and women, especially. But a lot of people really believe that we have to nurture everyone else around us.
Julieanna Hever:
But then what happens ultimately is not only you not well and sacrificing your well-being, but you're also not your best self for everyone around you. So, it's a win-win to look within and figure out how to love yourself better and take care of yourself and nourish yourself from the inside out so that you could be your best version for everything else in your life and everything else just, it's a win-win situation.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Julieanna, the passion is just oozing out of every pore of your body. I love it, your big, wonderful smile, being one of the OGs of the plant-based movement. This is a joy to have you on the PLANTSTRONG podcast. It's been way too long. And I look forward to doing more of these with you.
Julieanna Hever:
Thank you so much, Rip. I can't tell you how much it means to me. It's so wonderful. And keep up all your extraordinary work. I'm so grateful for everything you've been doing out there.
Rip Esselstyn:
Thank you. Thank you. Hey, let's sign off together. Ready? Peace.
Julieanna Hever:
Peace.
Rip Esselstyn:
Turn it around, Engine 2.
Julieanna Hever:
Engine 2.
Rip Esselstyn:
Keep it PLANTSTRONG.
Julieanna Hever:
PLANTSTRONG.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. What a beautiful concept, choose you now. Congratulations, Julieanna. I cannot wait to read the new book and have you back on the podcast when it's released this winter. In the meantime, gang, for all resources and links from today's show, visit the episode page at plantstrongpodcast.com. Next week, I share the mic with another pioneer, a man whom Time Magazine referred to as the conscience of the food movement, Mr. Gene Bauer, President and co-founder of Farm Sanctuary. Thanks for listening.
Rip Esselstyn:
Thank you for listening to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. You can support the show by taking a quick minute to follow us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Leaving us a positive review and sharing the show with your network is another great way to help us reach as many people as possible with the exciting news about plants. Thank you in advance for your support. It means everything.
Rip Esselstyn:
Have you had your own Galileo moment that you'd like to share? What happened when you stepped into the arena and shed the beliefs that you thought to be true? I'd love to hear about it. Visit plantstrongpodcast.com to submit your story and to learn more about today's guests and sponsors.
Rip Esselstyn:
The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, Ami Mackey, Patrick Gavin and Wade Clark. This season is dedicated to all of those courageous true seekers, who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth. Most notably, my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr. and Ann Crile Esselstyn. Thanks for listening.
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