#314: Dr. Luella Jonk - Advice That Can Save Your Relationships
What if the key to a thriving relationship isn't about personal fulfillment—but deep partnership?
Dr. Luella Jonk discusses her 12 Pillars of a Successful Relationship
In this week’s episode, Rip talks with Dr. Luella Jonk, a seasoned relationship coach and psychotherapist, about how to keep your relationship strong when you’re on different pages.
Drawing from 25 years of experience, Dr. Jonk shares the core pillars of lasting partnerships, including trust, unity in parenting, financial alignment, and the quiet power of “silent connection.” She explains why marriage is a covenant, not a contract, and how to lean into partnership over individualism to build deeper connection.
Whether you’re navigating lifestyle divides, parenting challenges, or the everyday distractions of modern life, this conversation offers real tools to help your relationship thrive.
They discuss:
Partnership Over Individualism – A Marriage Is Not About “I” but “We”.
Intimacy Beyond the Physical – Understanding Emotional and Spiritual Connection in Sex.
Parenting as a Team – Strengthening Your Marriage by Unifying Your Parenting Approach.
Silent Connection – Recognizing That Deep Connection Often Happens in the Absence of Words.
Financial Unity – Navigating Money in Marriage as Partners, Not Opponents.
Trust as the Cornerstone – Emotional Security is Built on Trust.
Mutual Respect – Honoring Each Other’s Individuality and Differences.
Acts of Love – Small Gestures Make the Biggest Impact.
Forgiveness as a Choice, Not a Feeling – Forgiveness is Deeply Tied to Mercy
Turning Toward, Never Away – Discerning, Trusting, and Staying Present in Marriage.
Whether you're the one charging ahead or you're feeling resistance at home, this episode offers a roadmap for building true partnership—and healing division from the inside out.
Listen to The Luella Jonk Show
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Full Episode Transcription via AI Transcription Service
I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
Introduction to PlantStrong Podcast
[0:04] At PLANTSTRONG, we see it all the time. One partner is ready to make a change, eat more plants, live with purpose, but the other, just not quite there yet. So what do you do when your house is divided? This week on the podcast, I sit down with Dr. Luella Jonk for a deeply insightful conversation about the pillars that hold strong relationships together, even when you're not on the same page. We'll have this deeply compelling conversation right after this message from Plan Strong.
[0:42] With over 25 years of experience, relationship coach and psychotherapist, Dr. Luella Jonk, has certainly seen and heard the complications and threats that occur in most relationships. Modern society has made it even more difficult to connect on a daily basis with our significant others. And then we have these constant distractions from our phones, our computers, non-traditional work schedules, and everything that is supposed to connect us, but actually makes us feel more alone than ever before. We see it here at PLANTSTRONG too, especially when one partner is ready to make a health change, but feels completely disconnected from their partner. They feel that they have to go it alone, causing even more strife in a relationship that may already be fractured. But there is hope, and Dr. Luella shares her thoughts, and these are thoughts based on decades of experience, on what makes marriages truly thrive. And trust me, Plant Strong Family, it's not rugged individualism. It is a partnership, and it's a choice that you make every single day.
Welcome Dr. Luella Jonk
[1:59] Today's episode is about getting real, getting grounded, and showing up for the people that we love.
[2:10] Dr. Luella Jonk, I want to welcome you to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. It's a pleasure to have you. Where am I speaking to you from today? A place you've probably never been to, which is Winnipeg, Manitoba. So that's Canada. And it's our neighbors are Saskatchewan and Ontario. And I know you had... Well, you've had a couple of Canadians, maybe, but the latest, oh, what is it? Scratchy, what is her name? She came up with a cookbook last year. Oh, you know, Carleigh Bodrog. Yeah, yeah. She's right next to me in Ontario. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I'm just north of North Dakota. Like the border is about, you know, an hour's drive away. Yeah. So, yeah. So I had one of my buddies on the podcast, Brad Kearns, and we talked about how to, well, I think, let me just think for a sec. Born to Walk. That was the title. Born to Walk. It was a book that he wrote with his buddy, Mark Sisson. And I think that that's maybe in part how you found out about us. I could be wrong. Oh, no, no, no. I was listening to you well before that.
[3:34] Yeah, probably because when I started going more or less plant-based, you know, probably almost a couple years ago. I mean, obviously, that's, you know, they feed you what you're interested in, right, on social media right now. So, probably found you that way and then been a pretty dedicated listener ever since. ever since. So when I heard Brad, I was like, oh, Brad and I had a conversation. Like, yeah. Yeah. So maybe, maybe we can pop on here too. Well, you know, so I love that you're on your, you know, whole food plant-based journey yourself. And you were kind of leaning into this lifestyle because you had some elevated cholesterol that you were trying to nip in the bud, right? Yeah, it's still a journey.
[4:25] I'll just share with you because you might fall over backwards, but I had to do some conversions and, My total cholesterol has maintained the same over the last five years. And that's from going to, you know, more of a Mediterranean to more mostly plants. It's remained around 300-ish. And, you know, I've been referred to in Canada, like we're fortunate that, you know, we don't have to pay for these things. but I was referred to the lipid clinic back in about 2020.
[5:07] So they've been following me and I haven't, I mean, my HDL is excellent. It's about at 140 and it's remained that way, you know, and the LDL unfortunately is, its highest was about 204 and it hasn't changed a lot. And same with my ApoB. It was the worst five years ago when I had more of a mixed diet. And it's better now, but still, it's, I don't know. I know that, so those numbers that you just shared, that is in milligrams per deciliter then? Yes, I converted it to, yeah, the U.S., yeah. I've never heard of an HDL in 140. That's kind of like astronomically high. And that's, you know, as the audience I think is well aware, that is considered the healthy cholesterol. But in some cases, it actually, they can turn into rogue LDLs. So, you know, my father has taught me that a high HDL is in no way, shape, or form. Does that mean that you are protected from heart disease just because you have a high HDL? Not at all. And just so you know, the way they left it off, I mean, you know, they look at all the risk factors, right? My age and...
[6:37] And, you know, I really liked my lipid doctor. He said to me, how did he explain it now? He said, you know, could we put you on a statin? Yeah. But he says, you got to realize it really only takes care of, you know, 20% or was it less? Was it 2% of the, like he says, it's like giving 100 people, you know, a statin and then thinking, yeah, like, I can't remember if he said 2%. or 20%, it's going to help. I think it's 2%, two out of the hundred. No, no, no. You're exactly right. It's the lower number. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And when I heard that, I thought, why would I do that? And then he referred me to get a CAC score, which I'm waiting for now, for that referral to land and to be called in for that and you know maybe i'll let you know what it what it what it uh shows but i'm thinking, i'm i'm not going to go forward with anything without actually seeing what's happening inside my arteries so and a cac that's the uh coronary coronary uh uh calcium score yeah yeah yeah.
Insights on Marriage and Relationships
[7:53] Coronary artery calcium score exactly yeah um all right so let's let's let's dive into some things here because I want to, you have some expertise around certain subjects. You're a registered psychotherapist. You're a clinical counselor, certified functional medicine practitioner. But I also, you know, in doing my research, I love some of your, some of the things that you like speaking about. And I think, I think it's, it's not necessarily in alignment with kind of culture today, but I think there's something to it. And so for starters, if you could like share with the audience, how do you identify yourself? Luella? Okay. Well, yeah, the most important thing I think, you know, I need to say is that I'm a wife, a mother, a.
[8:53] A psychotherapist, someone who is also faith-based as well. And, yeah, I try to just sort of start each day, like, reminding myself of what's really important to me, you know. And it's actually the way I start my day, too. It's sort of I start in solitude, you know, in prayer, in reflection. And uh you know from there i actually um i know this isn't exactly the question you asked but from there i i go into our garage and i um you know just do some strengthening and and stretching, very little cardio all i have is a skipping rope in there but um but you know it's it gets my heartbeat up for a bit and that's more like yeah 20 minutes half an hour and and then you know connecting with my family after that.
Understanding Partnership Dynamics
[9:47] And, and then I see clients, right? So that's, yeah. What I want to, what I want to dive into with you, because I think it's really powerful and relevant is, is marriage, right? And you, you, you say how it's constantly under pressure these days from this modern culture, which is trying to promote comfort over commitment and individualism over unity.
[10:17] And you have these 12 core principles that you say, and that you've kind of found over, I think, what, your 25 years of doing counseling serve as the foundation for a lasting and meaningful marriage. So if you're game, I'd love to toss them up to you and then kind of talk about those 12. Does that sound good? Sure. Sounds great. Wonderful. So your first pillar that you have is partnership over individualism. And you say that a marriage is not about I, but we. Yeah, it's, you know, that one's really about, um, hmm.
[10:53] So many examples, but like, it's sort of listening to one another in terms of their perspectives, like one another's perspectives and how we have to listen and be curious towards one another. It's like, why do you think that's, you know, why is that meaningful to you? Um and rather than you know i i i and like for a quick example of that rip would be like when i was going through my phd and i was reading a lot about um dual language acquisition and how you know kids brains just really like the the neurons just fire and expands your brain and and i was like whoa you know our kids should be in a in a dual language school and at the time they were in a Catholic private school, and I was sort of like with my husband, well, no, they need to be, you know, the literature shows it's important for them to have this. And he very reluctantly went along with me, but that's not an example of we, you know, that's I, this is what I think, and so on. So, yeah. um.
[12:17] Yeah, it seems like so, I mean, because it seems like outside of the marriage, there is so much individualism. And so you have to come back and really focus on the partnership and individualism, which I would imagine for many of us is probably a pretty tricky type. It's probably hard to figure that out. Yeah, it's really hard. And then, you know, that's when you seek counsel, right? Like, if you're going through a really, like, difficult situation, like, it's always great to have that third person in the room listening to your concerns sort of thing. All right. So, your second pillar is commitment as a covenant. What do you mean by that?
[13:09] Well, I mean, you know, it's not a contract. It's not something that, you know, is sort of can be played with or negotiated with or something like that. It's what you said, you know, on the day that you married your partner, like for better or for worse, for rich or for poor.
[13:29] Like, we have each other's back. And it's a gift, it's a grace to be able to, you know, give to another person and for both of you to create this family together too. I mean, it's sort of like to provide life to a child and to have that be your legacy behind it. And so, I mean, obviously, there's, you know, I always have to use that caveat, like, obviously, there's going to be relationships that need to end, like if there's, you know, severe emotional or physical abuse.
Commitment: A Covenant, Not a Contract
[14:12] So, it's not just sort of like this blank statement I'm saying. But I think too quickly, we just feel like it's like, you know, I've been trying for a year and it's not working. You know those kind of statements it's sort of like a year you know like marriage is absolute sacrifice and i think that's what we should be proclaiming from the top of the roof like it's it's it's you are going to be constantly sacrificing for this other one other person you know because you are so different in your upbringings you know you're never rarely going to see things the same, What if, I mean, what if...
[14:57] One of the partners feels like the sacrifice they're making is far exceeding the sacrifice that the other partner is making, which I'm sure a lot of relationships feel like they're kind of out of balance when it comes to that. Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? I think it's important to speak about that. And I always also say that there's seasons in a relationship, too. Like, I mean, I come from a farming community right now and is my, are my brothers, you know, carrying the load of the family right now?
[15:34] No. You know, like they're gone like, I don't know, 5.30, 6 a.m. In the morning and they're back in like when it's dark, you know, 9.30 or sort of something like that. So, are they, you know, like carrying the other responsibilities of the house right now? Absolutely not. And so, I mean, how long can that carry on? That's why, you know, at least you know it's a season, you know, it's a spring season, it's a fall harvest season, but it shouldn't be like that forever. And it's the same thing if someone's, you know, even if a woman's working and maybe they're a lawyer and maybe they're going through certain like, yeah, they're in court, you know, for the next two weeks. I mean, it's sort of, it calls for communication with one another, right? Like, let's get our calendars known and plan this, like figure it out sort of thing. But to say it needs to be 50-50, it's rarely 50-50 at any given time.
[16:37] I can't remember where I was, but it might have been something I heard or I asked, because I always ask couples that have been together, you know, 50 years, 60 years. I said, what was the secret to you guys staying together? And I think one of them once said, you know, neither one of us. Decided to quit at the same time. I'm sure that you've heard something like
Exploring Intimacy Beyond the Physical
[17:01] that. Yeah. No, that's, I haven't heard that. It's a great saying though. Yeah. Yeah. So let's go to pillar number three, which is intimacy beyond the physical. What do you mean by that? Yeah. You know, when, when I write about this or when I speak about it, like it, it, it tends to, This is where we might, you know, have a little bit more, I don't know, empathy for women, perhaps, in the sense that I think a lot of, like women, again, because of hormones, I mean, we don't have that, the same sexual, again, not all women. And I have some women in my practice that seem to have a higher sexual drive than their partners.
[17:45] But it's to see sex as a different way. That, you know, the physical act of sex is that. It's physical. But that's just sort of like the entry point into the deeper connection of love. It's the passion of love. whereas the main part of the relationship is the act of love or you could say the day-to-day grind or the acts of love. And then once children leave the nest, I feel like it's become more of a habit of love.
[18:27] So the sex piece is such a small piece. It's the eroticism. um and i'd say like you know maybe i'm favoring women a little bit more here in the sense that i think like well women do often feel object objectified you know in that sense um and often they're you know sometimes confused about you know what do i just need to serve the husband all the time serve serve serve you know and or be obedient like you know as certain terms are taken out of the Bible and then, like, you know, but they're taken the wrong way. It's sort of, well, no, it's more of serving one another. Like, of course it's that. And so.
[19:17] I mean, I think sex was created for marriage, for procreation sort of thing. And, you know, if you think of it that way as well, it's sort of like, well, there's only a certain few days that a woman is fertile. It's not meant to be, you know, like every day, every second day. And if a man is just going to say, well, what do you want? You know, this is me or whatever. Or, you know, I mean, no, that that's that becomes sort of like transactional. It's meant to be much, much more intimate than that.
[19:56] Yeah. I would imagine you've probably seen what thousands of couples. Well, yeah, I guess so. But I'm just wondering, I would imagine that infidelity
Navigating Infidelity in Relationships
[20:10] is probably is probably pretty predominant. And I'm wondering, how do you handle infidelity, especially in, I think, a culture where it's like, okay, my wife cheated on me or my husband cheated on me, the relationship's done, when it seems like there's ways to repair the relationship without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Yeah, 100%. Like the biggest thing with betrayal, like in that way with affairs is sort of to rebuild the trust. I mean, and let's face it, it's hard. You know, once that happens, it's super hard. You're always second guessing. You're always anxious. You're always worried.
[20:56] But you know i find it depends on uh the age of the relationship like how long have have they been together the longer the relationship the easier it is to mend i would say because, they realize what what the relationship has been the you know how both have sacrificed so long for one another and you don't just throw the baby away with the bath water you you work on it you work on their trust issue. Whereas the younger relationship is sort of.
[21:29] Yeah, whatever he's, he's done this or she's done this, like, let's, that's, it's not going to work. You know, it's not going to work. I think unless it happens to you, you can't even say what you're going to do in that instinct. But, but the culture, the dating culture, I mean, that's where I find like, I never in a million years, like would have ever, you know, when i was dating like that just did not happen i i don't like unless i lived in a sheltered environment it's just sort of people just didn't cheat like they do now and, i think it's it's also has to do somewhat with the whole idea that you know sex isn't sacred anymore well.
[22:16] I think that sex could be a whole five-hour conversation. Exactly.
[22:23] It is, yeah, it's very, very, it's a quagmire. Yeah.
[22:30] Very intense. So let's move on. So I've got three kids. Yep.
Parenting as a Unified Team
[22:36] Your fourth pillar is parenting as a team, right? And unifying your parenting approach. how do you suggest that we do that well yeah this one really um is popular with couples they they they both want this very badly um parenting as a team well it's again it's not it's it's it's it's realizing that you know you have one perspective and the other person has a perspective, that like listening to one another in terms of one of you know each other's needs I gave you the example of you know me reading the literature about what children need and thinking that's the way we need to go but but maybe a better example would of course be you know when I say parenting as a team it's like because we all have our different like we were raised differently You know, and what was normal in your home is not necessarily normal in your spouse's home. So this is where the heads can really butt, you know, and say, well, you know, it should be this way or that way. But an example would be like, I don't know.
[23:55] Okay, so your 14-year-old daughter wants to leave the house with, you know, this, like.
[24:04] Scantily clothed you know outfit sort of thing and um and you are are kind of saying absolutely not there's no way you're leaving the house looking like that um and your wife is sort of like, hey um you know and sort of.
[24:26] Whatever it takes you aside but like not in front of the child or anything like that or just saying you know give us a sec we're going to talk about this or whatever but you but her maybe speaking to you about why she trusts uh your daughter and and and and uh conversations that she might have had with her daughter your daughter um already and things like that and and then you know maybe coming to like and just giving the strict curfew because we all know nothing good happens after 2 as my father always used to say, and like, yeah, maybe other boundaries, but like if this is her style of clothing, you know, let's just be smart about it sort of thing. So that's more of a team approach rather than, you know, your wife wanting to sort of step in and it's like, no, no, no, no, no. This is it. This is like, you know, sort of thing. That's not a team.
[25:29] Yeah, no, I can definitely say that when you're not parenting as a team, it can cause some internal strife with you and your partner, which leads to some, you know, resentment and anger. Well, and then also like the child soon learns who to go to depending on what they want. Right. Because if he or she sees the different perspectives, you know, she's going to go to one parent for money and the other parent for something else, you know, a ride or whatever that might be. Yeah. Do you have to deal with, I'll just make this up, but let's say parents trying to figure out with their children screen time?
[26:20] Oh well yeah not so much you know i tend to get like i find i get the older couples in because of my age you know they know that i can relate to her because our kids are adults or or whatever so i can't say i've had a lot about screen time um but that's that's got to be a challenging issue I, I just, I'm so grateful that I did not have a phone, you know, really until my children were a fair bit older and that I, I mean, obviously I'm, I'm not a dinosaur. My, you know, my 14 year old or whatever would have had phones and stuff like that, but it was easier then too. I don't know. It just seems like, I mean, they use it for school now. They, they use it for everything screen, I mean, screen, some sort of device. So, I guess parental controls, and I guess you and your partner are speaking about that, right? Yeah, no, those screens are ubiquitous, so it's toughy.
The Power of Silent Connection
[27:24] Your fifth pillar is silent connection. I really like the sound of that.
[27:31] As a man, you probably would, because, I mean, I've had a lot of women that are complaining about their husbands not speaking. You know, and maybe it's the first thing after they come in to the door after a hard day's work or whatever, right? And women tend to be more chatty Cathy's, right? Like, let's face it, that's how women feel. Yeah.
[27:56] I know, it's a form of self-soothment. I always say women flock together and they talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, and that's their therapy. Whereas, like, men just don't. And so, I mean, I guess I could just counsel women there, too. It's sort of like sometimes silence can be a really deep form of connection, you know, because maybe then you're not micromanaging the house or over-correcting your spouse or whatever. But just sort of like, I mean, let's face it, like, you know, just to be in a room together, doing your own thing, maybe it's reading, maybe it's working, maybe it's like you don't always need to be speaking. And again, very individualistic, right? Just because a man is not saying much, it doesn't mean he doesn't love you. And he wants your companionship, but in silence. So respect that. So you put that one in there for the men. It's kind of, yeah. For the men and then for the women to understand that silence can also be a form of connection and love. Yes, exactly.
Financial Unity in Marriage
[29:23] What about financial unity? It seems like finances and money is always an issue. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Yeah, well again, I think that, The most important thing, again, is our money. You know, again, like we over I, our money. I often have to correct, you know, couples in the room, partners that talk about, you know, well, you know, I earned it sort of thing or, you know, that's my money sort of thing. It's never my money. It's never my money. I mean, even like, even like in one partner tends to take care of the money too. It's sort of like, for example, in my relationship, my husband always sort of like dished it out to the kids sort of thing. But it's not that it's his money. You know, he might have bought the car for the kids or he, you know, and, but it's really important for the kids to also respect that. Like, even if dad makes $60,000 a year and mom makes $90,000 a year, it's still our money. It's not.
[30:42] So, I think most of the financial decisions should be made that way. And I always say, you know, of course, you can have your own account for your own, like, plane money or whatever it is. I mean, whatever that might mean for you. Like if you love traveling and you want to have a travel account and you take part of your earnings for that, great. But like I do think there should be a shared account for the household expenses.
[31:09] No, it seems like I know way too many relationships where it's almost like the husband runs the money and almost gives the wife like an allowance. Oh, I know. And is constantly monitoring, overseeing. Right. And that just feels icky. No, totally icky. Yeah, totally icky. That's what I mean. The money goes in a joint account. She pulls it out if she needs, you know, if she is a stay-at-home mom, if she has a lesser income, whatever. Yeah, 100%. And they're also like with all of these, I think, pillars in a way is sort of realizing you were brought up differently. And it is an important topic to discuss before because some people spend so freely and others are savers because that's the way we were brought up. Well, that's a good point. I mean, I think it's important that you decide kind of early on in your relationship. What are your shared financial goals? Yeah. Oh, and then, you know, and if you decide, well, let's, let's try and save this percent of our.
[32:23] Of our joint income yearly, then you're, you know, you're kind of together working towards a little, like, let's say we're working towards financial freedom so that after 25 years of working, we can retire and we don't have to be stressed about it. Exactly. Yeah. Just like any business partner would do, right? Like, I mean, you, you, you, and if you have to go back to the table over and over to negotiate, negotiate, you know, it's sort of like, yeah, it's important. And I want to say something about, like, when I said savers, one thing I wanted to mention to you is, you know, I watch your mom and your sister as well in the kitchen, right? And my mom's 86. Your mom is what? My mom's going to be 90 in about a month and a half. Wow. Like, but I see the same sort of mannerisms in the kitchen, like my mom, you know, and your mom, and it's sort of like, they're scraping like the last, you know, tablespoon out of any bowl or whatever it is, right? Like, it's sort of like, that's what I mean like you're brought up in a certain way you're not going to change your partner from that um so i just want to say that too like the way you're raised it's like 80 of who you are yeah yeah yeah yeah i yeah i will always be part of the clean plate club it's just something that we all did growing up.
[33:47] Trust as a cornerstone. I couldn't agree with you more. I just think.
[33:57] Trust is what everything is built on. It really is. I mean, there's just no other way of describing it. Like with an affairs, that's what I mean.
Trust as the Cornerstone of Love
[34:09] You know, the Gottmans is where I've been trained as a Gottman therapist. And you're familiar with the Gottmans, right, Julie? I am not. Oh, my God. Okay. Well, if you ever have relationship issues, just remember their names. They're two psychologists out of Seattle. and um anyway great great information on relationships but they describe like a relationship house and how the two pillars that keep up the house um i guess the sporting walls you could say are commitment and trust which is you know because without those standing walls taking the weight of the relationship like you you have no relationship sort of thing.
[34:55] So um yeah trust i mean you know sometimes like often uh you know i would have more women entering, my office individually than men right men don't run to therapy as easy but if women are coming to me individually and asking me like what do i do do i stay do i go and sometimes it's really easily answered if I say to them do you feel he has your back you know and if she trusts him in that way then I'm like you got you gotta stay I realize it's hard right now what's happening but if you have somebody that you know you can really trust that he or she will have your back, What more do you really need?
[35:45] Nothing like having somebody that has your back. Yeah. Yeah. At all times. Yeah. Acts of love. Boy, don't we all just love those unexpected small little gestures when you least expect it? Yeah. It just makes you melt. Oh, I know. And it's the simplest things, right? Rep, it's sort of like, I don't know, like for women cleaning the snow off your car. You know, like, yeah, changing your summer's tires and your winter tires, like little things like that, that we rarely give thanks for, because we've gotten the habit of just expecting that our partner's going to do it. You know, what that might be in your relationship with your wife, it's sort of like she just does it all the time. Um, but these are all acts
Acts of Love in Daily Life
[36:38] of love that are so easy to take advantage of.
[36:43] And, um, that's what I meant in, uh, you know, when I said that before, it's sort of like the eroticism, the honeymoon stage is that like the, that passion of love. But then the bulk of the marriage is the acts of love, which then become habits of love. And it's the middle part that's so hard is to keep up those acts of love even when you're really hurt or insulted or yeah well so in that same vein then your your next pillar is forgiveness as a choice oh yeah right loving beyond the hurt yeah yeah and you know it's i think, I'm not going to say women have more trouble with forgiveness, but... I see it, more women complaining about it because they've sort of just buried it. Like all those times that they were hurt, and let's face it, women are more prone to hurt because of the emotional hurt, that men are just like black and white thinking, what? You know, like, I hurt you? What? You know?
[38:04] And believe me, I get it all the time. like men are like one's on one side of the couch you know the other one's on the other side of the couch and she's talking and he's like i can see him looking at her going what you know two years ago and and like you never said anything and and so um yeah and and so and the women want justice i find again it's sort of like you know if someone pushes their kid down on a school you know playground they're like oh you know let me get after that kid right and so they're always trying to go for justice they have a little bit more hard time forgiving but i mean i think you have to realize and this is where my faith sort of kicks in too it's sort of like um you know, god loves us no matter what all our flaws all our warts all our scars unconditional love all the time he's constantly forgiving us.
[39:02] Why can't you just do this one forgiveness? You know, like, what makes it so hard for you? I think we have to realize we were hurt. It was a huge cost to us. We lost something in that interaction. But we have to be okay to forgive anyway. You know, it's not like, let's get equal first. It's like, no, you forgive.
[39:29] Yeah. Well, it's surprising sometimes how hard it can be to apologize when you've hurt somebody and they really want to hear it from you and they want to hear it from you in a very authentic way that is meaningful and they hear it and they can tell in your voice that you mean it. Exactly. You're so right. It's something that's not spoken about, but like, you know, how many of us do really sincere apologies?
The Challenge of Forgiveness
[40:05] Once you do that, it's very easy for the most of the time for the partner to just let it go then.
Embracing Sacrifice and Mercy
[40:11] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. You already mentioned kind of faith as a foundation. Yeah. You know, and leaning on that when nothing else is working, which is great. And your last pillar is sacrifice and mercy. And you say that love requires both of these. Can you explain that? Yeah, yeah. Because it kind of goes on a flywheel sort of thing, like sacrifice and mercy. It's sort of, okay, if I'm going to, you know, first of all.
[40:48] Okay, like I said before, marriage is all about sacrifice. So anybody young that's, you know, engaged in love, realize it's going to be hard and you're going to make a lot of sacrifices, but it's worth it. It's sort of like you provide the person mercy with forgiveness and when they hear that or when they feel that, you know, they instantly have love for you. So then you love the person and because you're feeling loved, you're able to provide more mercy, more sacrifice. And this makes the other person feel loved again. You know, and it's just sort of like, it's a bit of a flywheel. You just keep on feeding it acts of love, more forgiveness, more mercy, more sacrifice. And it just, it flows beautifully when you see it that way. Yeah, no, I can see that. And you have to practice it. Exactly. Day in and day out. And I think somewhere in reading about you, Luella, you're like, you have to make this one of the most important things in your life every day. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
[42:15] And I think a lot of couples, they don't want to work that hard. You're so right, Rip. Yeah, it's such a me culture right now. It's all about me, what I need, my ego, my honor, my status, my hurt, my suffering, victim, and it's the opposite of what we should be doing. You know, instead of serving others and thinking less about yourself. In some ways, like people that go for therapy or like constant therapy are also kind of in that, you know, me, I have to get better. I have to like even the self-growth sort of like culture, too. It's sort of like I need to perfect myself. I need to perfect my diet. I need to sort of like, I mean, to an extent. Right. But we can all become way too obsessed in certain areas of our life, and we start idolizing maybe our body too much, maybe our health too much, maybe our career too much, instead of, like, reminding ourselves, like, to serve others. Yeah.
Bridging Dietary Divides in Relationships
[43:32] I have one more question for you before we have to duck out. And that is any suggestions or recommendations for a house that is divided when it comes to the husband, let's say, that wants to continue to have their meat and cheese and eat like a man and the woman that's trying to get more plant strong because they are amazing and they're wonderful and they're smart and they're up on the science. Yeah um how do you recommend that divide and trying to conquer it that's a good question i know you know you you you ask your other guests that as well and um i would say like well it's kind of what i'm doing now rip like i mean nobody has really jumped on the bandwagon i mean we eat healthy balanced meals i mean but i mean i've most of my protein comes from plants and uh I just keep on doing my thing you know I and in my youngest son is is becoming more interested in it now I see so it's it's not again it's not a division it's not my this is the only way this is the best way you know you're wrong I'm right and that's what kind of gets couples in a lot of trouble when they start behaving like that just start modeling um and you know and and speaking out loud.
[45:00] Wow, you know, I've been feeling like a lot more energized and, and getting your partner kind of curious is sort of.
[45:06] You know, I don't know what that's all about sort of thing, or men, they seem to be moving around the house easy. You know, why am I struggling? So. Well, you said two words there that I really liked. The first is modeling. And then the, and the second was curiosity, right? Yeah. Those, those are two, like, yeah, keep modeling that, that behavior, that lifestyle. And then hopefully eventually, yeah, it will, it will create curiosity coming from your partner. What did you have for breakfast this morning? Oh, I had berries and chia pudding with soy milk and a little bit of nuts because I'm a nut freak.
[45:49] But yeah, so I feel like I covered all bases there, but it's a typical one for me. And like in the summer heat, like we've been having crazy hot temperatures the last couple of days. So, yeah, so it's not the oatmeal, but yeah. Where's the best place for people to find you, read up on you, check out your work? Yeah, I would say my website's probably good. But if you want more like up-to-date stuff about, you know, my beliefs, my philosophy on life and marriage, then probably Instagram is because I post there about three times a week. My podcast, which I recently changed to the Luella Young show.
Closing Thoughts and Resources
[46:37] Yeah. Lots of stuff on, on relationships on the, on that podcast. So that's about it. Yeah. Well, well you've given us a lot of wonderful food for thought, especially regarding relationships that are, God, they're, We all have them. Exactly. It's just a matter of, you know, what direction are they going in? Are they feeding us? Are they... Yeah, sucking us dry. Yeah, sucking us dry. And I think we all want to be moving towards the former, not the latter. Right, right. Yeah. And especially for men, you know, like if you're struggling, like reach out. I hope that stigma is not there for men anymore. you know, just like I'm weak, you know, why would I need to talk to somebody? It's so important. Yeah. Well, listen, I appreciate you coming on the podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much. Can I get a virtual PLANTSTRONG fist bump on the way out? Absolutely. I've always wanted to do that.
[47:44] All right. See you, Luella. Thank you. Bye-bye. We only scratched the surface today, but I would encourage you to explore more at Luella's website, luella, L-U-E-L-L-A-J-O-N-K.com. And I'll put a link in the show notes to make it super easy for you. There you'll learn more about her practice and her podcast. I want to thank you so much for listening and know that even if it feels one-sided, you can still build a lasting relationship that grows stronger with time. Keep the respect, keep the commitment, and always, always keep it PLANTSTRONG.
[48:27] The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Am Mackey. If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones. You can always leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode. As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr. And Anne Crile Esselstyn. Thanks so much for listening.
