#237: To Supplement or Not. That is the Question with Matt Tullman
Matt Tullman, founder and CEO of Complement
We here at PLANTSTRONG get asked all of the time - What supplements should I take? How do I know if I’m deficient in something? Who do you recommend?
We answer all of those questions and more today with Matt Tullman, founder and CEO of Complement.
Matt and his team have taken a maniacal and lengthy pursuit to engineer the BEST supplements for plant-based eaters, and they’ve done the work to validate their innovations by having everything verified with third party testing.
In the Esselstyn family, data is king and Matt has done a lifetime’s worth of research to produce what we believe to be the perfect complement to a whole foods, plant-based lifestyle.
This episode provides valuable insights into plant-based nutrition, proper supplementation, and optimizing health through a plant-based lifestyle.
As you’ll hear Matt stress repeatedly today, “supplements” are just that. Health starts first and foremost with a whole foods, plant-based diet, followed by positive lifestyle interventions like good sleep and social connections. From there, once you know your numbers, you can start to fill in those gaps that may need a little boost. thriving on a plant-based diet has never been easier with Complement.
Episode Highlights
0:02:03 The Importance of Supplements and Knowing Your Deficiencies
0:05:00 Reconnecting with Old Friends and the Passage of Time
0:09:43 Matt’s Early Passion for Education and Solving Societal Problems
0:13:57 Matt's Philosophy and the Importance of Education
0:15:28 Inspiration from His Uncle’s Death
0:26:08 The Power of Food in Healing and Prevention
0:33:15 The Deficiency Epidemic: Vitamin D, B12, and Omegas
0:44:15 Complement Essentials: Quality Supplements for the Plant-Based Community
0:53:25 Understanding the need for DHA and EPA
1:00:12 Vitamin D and its absorption through the skin
1:03:19 Algae-based Omega: Sustainable and Free from Toxins
1:12:45 Importance of Testing for Nutrient Levels
1:28:50 The Importance of Fiber for a Healthy Microbiome
About Matt Tullman
Matt is the co-founder and CEO of Outlier Health, the parent company of Complement and No Meat Athlete, which have served nearly 13 million people just in the past three years. He is also an investor in health/food/bev startups, and a contributor to Inc. Magazine. Previously Matt founded a ed-tech firm that was ultimately acquired by Stride Education (NYSE: LRN).
Matt is most proud of bootstrapping a business that was named to the Inc. 500 list of fastest growing companies in 2021. He has dedicated his career to growing nutrition-first health companies to help catalyze the movement to a plant-based lifestyle for the mainstream consumer.
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Episode Transcript via AI Transcription Service
If you're looking to hit the reset button and supercharge your health and vitality, then I want you to mark your calendars for our next PLANTSTRONG Retreat.
It is nestled in the serene and absolutely spectacular town of Black Mountain, North Carolina.
[0:18] The dates are April 14th to the 19th, where you can indulge in bountiful buffets of plant-based fare that are expertly crafted to nourish your body and help you fall in love with the lifestyle.
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Brian Asbill, Dr. Michael Klaper, and Doug Lisle
Gain insights, tips, and strategies to enhance your life and get answers to your most pressing personal questions.
You can even play pickleball with all of us. Get ready to rally with my team along with me on the pickleball courts.
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[1:35] All in all, this experience is crafted just for you.
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Visit plantstrong.com today to learn more.
I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
[2:03] We at PLANTSTRONG get asked all the time, what supplements should I take?
How do I know if I'm, in fact, deficient in something? And what brand do you recommend?
Well, we answer all of those questions and more today in my conversation with a person who is doing it right.
He is the founder and the CEO of Complement, Matt Tullman.
He and his team of experts have taken a maniacal and lengthy pursuit to engineer what I believe are the best supplements for plant-based eaters.
And they've done the work to validate their innovations by having everything verified with third-party testing.
[2:48] In the Esselstyn family, data is king and Matt has done a lifetime's worth of research to produce what I think is the perfect complement to a whole food plant-based lifestyle.
Over the years, I have watched a lot of influencers start pitching supplements.
And like you, I've rolled my eyes and snubbed my nose.
But we all live different lifestyles. We have different goals and we process foods in our own unique ways.
That same research that highlights the power of plants for long-term health also identifies a few key nutrients and omega-3s that, while technically available in plant foods, aren't always consumed in adequate amounts.
[3:36] Take a deep dive with me today, and I think you'll see Matt has done the homework and is 100% aligned with our philosophy at PLANTSTRONG .
I was so impressed that I asked Matt to create an exclusive offer for our audience.
You can save 30% when you enter the code PLANTSTRONG at their website, lovecomplement.com, and complement is spelled c-o-m-p-l-e-m-e-n-t or by clicking on the link in our show notes today as you'll hear matt stress repeatedly today supplements are just that health starts first and foremost with a whole food plant-based diet followed by positive lifestyle interventions like like good sleep, movement, and social connections.
From there, once you know your numbers, you can start to fill in those gaps that may need a little boost.
And I 100% agree with this approach and I will stand alongside Matt and his team any day.
Understanding our wonderful bodies is a lifelong learning process.
And I hope that you appreciate this hefty dose of education from Matt Tolman. as much as I did.
[5:00] Matt Tullman, what's going on? Hey Rip, how you doing?
I am doing very, very well. I just went up to Connecticut this last weekend for my Irish twin brother's 60th birthday party, and it was a blast.
And I got to see, hang out with him and a lot of high school buddies that I haven't seen in years.
And it's really, it's wild to look at all these people that I haven't seen since they were young cats and they're now old cats. And it's, it's kind of, it's kind of hard. It's a hard pill to swallow, Matt.
Well, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to age you, but I think you probably look better and certainly bring a certain energy that your friends in high school don't. Is that true?
Did you look around and say, God, you guys are, you guys are old.
And, and because you're not old, Rip, you're, I mean, I joke that I want to be you when I grow up, you know?
Well, Matt, what if I said I wish I had your entrepreneurial spirit and guts when I was your age?
[6:16] Yeah, there's a fine line between stupidity and gutsiness, right?
It's like that saying about, you know, brilliance and insanity are, you know, really, really close on that spectrum. Yeah, it's funny you say that.
I'm actually right now, I'm listening to Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson.
I'm listening to his book on tape. And, you nailed it. That's what he is like, like insanity and brilliance combined.
And what Elon Musk has been able to do with his just kind of never say never.
And you say this can't be done. Well, watch me. It's pretty incredible.
[6:59] Yeah. I don't want us to get too far off topic, but there's some great lessons there.
One of which he always, I haven't read it by the way, I've downloaded it, and I plan to listen to it really soon.
But one of the things that comes out in his philosophy that you often hear about is this idea that if it's not based in the laws of physics, then it's not impossible.
The laws of physics are the only limiting factors. And even that he's trying to disprove with his literally rocket science.
But if it's not based in those laws, it's not impossible. And I think that is an incredible mindset.
Yeah. Well, he's also, one of his mindsets too is a maniacal, maniacal sense of urgency, right?
He wants everything done yesterday and he drives people so hard, but he's been able to do what people thought was impossible.
So speaking of impossible, I want to talk about you, Matt, and what you've been doing.
And so let's just dive into when did you know, like at what age did you know that you wanted to be an entrepreneur and wanted to be, you know, going to business?
[8:13] Oof, I still don't know that I want to be an entrepreneur. You know, at some point, I actually thought to myself that, you know, I wouldn't wish this upon my kids.
I think a lot of people say, you know, I want my kids to grow up and be an entrepreneur.
And it's like, I think there's some sort of defect that has led me to this, this occupation.
And I don't know that I would want that for a loved one.
But to answer your question more directly, I don't think when I had the opportunity to start working with some folks in venture capital, I said yes to that job, which, by the way, was an unpaid job.
But I just knew these guys were successful. They had taken an interest in me and that was an opportunity that I should take, even though I had no idea what venture capital was and I couldn't spell entrepreneurship.
Entrepreneurship um i still by the way probably can't spell entrepreneurship um however i have learned i have learned a little bit about that the venture ecosystem and and the roles we play um as founders and trying to solve problems that otherwise you know would not uh be solved because maybe they they look intractable like we're talking about with elon musk but they you know There's no incentive structure there for some big business to take on these crazy moonshots.
And so I had, like I said, the great privilege to start off putting together a venture fund with other people's money and.
[9:43] And that gave me a great insight into this world that looked really fun from the outside.
And so I started pitching my own ideas at that time.
[9:54] My first business was in education technology. And we were trying to help K through 12 schools transition from textbooks to a more digital environment for teaching and learning.
And we can spend as much time or as little time as you want talking about that.
But I don't think it's probably a, unfortunately, even to this day, 15 some odd years later, it's probably still unsurprising for people to hear that there's a real disconnect between how people, how kids learn and how we operate in the world outside of classrooms.
The average textbook at that time was seven years old, seven years old.
And that may work for the laws of physics or math.
Right. But in a lot of cases, you had kids learning, you know, literally the geography and the politics of the Middle East in the midst of a moment when those lines are being redrawn and those countries are being renamed.
And it was kind of a silly thing, not to mention the fact that with technology, you can create all of this interactivity.
You can really bring a classroom to life in a way that you have kids and teachers understanding where am I?
Because you have this immediate feedback with testing.
And if you're moving on in the lesson and you're leaving half the class behind, you can get that immediate feedback loop.
And you can pause and try to address the subject in a different way.
And there's all these benefits, obviously, that come with technology.
[11:24] So I'll leave it at that.
[11:26] Yeah. But before you leave that, what was your passion that led you down that path to, you know, schools and antiquated textbooks and this new interactive technology?
[11:44] You know, honestly, it doesn't have anything to do with technology or textbooks.
Books, it has to do with education, which I still believe is sort of a foundational aspiration that we should all be focused on because I think a highly educated population is going to see less of all of the...
Seemingly intractable ills that we face as a society, right?
Whether it comes to obesity and these metabolic disorders and heart disease and cancer like we face, and we will talk about more today, or if we're talking about bigotry and racism and anti-Semitism and homelessness and poverty and all these different other challenges that are really the root cause of a tremendous amount of suffering in our society.
[12:30] And I just fundamentally believe that if we have a much better educational system if we have a higher degree of education across the entire population we're gonna solve a lot more problems we're gonna we're gonna treat each other more empathetically we're gonna have less of these health challenges so for two for me so much of what we do today in you know focusing on health and wellness as well as back then it just comes down to the education well uh i'm gonna hold up my glass of water and say here's the education matt yeah exactly well look it's what it's what you and the s system plan is has been doing for how many years right it's all about education we can create products that that make the process easier hopefully building habits easier like all the incredible PLANTSTRONG foods that you guys create like the supplements and non-food nutrients that we create but but those are just you know those are nice to have those are hopefully making people's lives easier yeah the real core is the education the real it's the inspiration and it's hopefully the information that we can deliver to people that can change lives yeah yeah so i want to get into Complement and why you started Complement and what your philosophy is there.
[13:55] But first, I want people to understand
[13:57] just a little bit deeper about Matt Tullman and what makes him tick.
[14:02] Because, you know, you and I, we didn't meet that long ago. It might have been, I'm going to say, eight months ago.
And what happened is you guys invited me to be part of your plantapalooza summit that you guys were throwing.
I think it was back in October or November of 2023.
And I thought I was going to be interviewed by Matt Frazier.
And I was interviewed by you.
And I had no idea who you were. And after the interview, we ended up talking for a long time about being fellow CEOs of your company and my company.
And it was a really, really, I felt, heartfelt conversation.
I learned so much more about you and your company. So much so that, you know, you decided that you would come down and you partook in maybe three or four days of our Sedona immersion.
In October. And so we got to hang out there as well. And so I'm just fascinated with you, Matt.
You know, at such a, I would say, young age, you seem so precocious.
If you don't mind me asking, how old are you now? Are you 34, 35?
35. Soon to be 36. Okay. All right.
So I'm going to be 60 in a couple of days. Incredible to think that We're almost 25 years apart.
[15:28] But I remember you telling me, because I peppered you with questions.
So you went to SMU, right? You went to SMU. What'd you major in, in SMU?
Political science. The backstory there, briefly, is that I was on the path towards a business degree because I figured that had some utility in it.
But the classwork, the coursework, I should say, was so boring in the business school curriculum.
It was literally people teaching you how to use Excel.
And I was like, well, this seems like a waste of money. And I was paying for for college.
So, you know, at the same time, I was in these elective classes, you know, they want you to have a broad taste.
So, I just signed up for random things, anthropology, sociology.
[16:17] Political science, history.
And I was like, wow, these professors are like trying to change the way you think.
They're trying to reorganize the way you view the world. They're really investing into these lessons every single day.
And meanwhile, you have this like agent professor from, you know who's running a business on the side and just you know comes in and teaches you you know this this excel script i'm like this seems like a waste of time so for better or worse i i uh majored in political science and international relations which to this day i think is a good degree because it helps you see how the world is actually put together that there There are these people making laws and, you know, that I think is an important way to understand the world we operate in.
But I've yet to really find a direct use of anything I've learned in college and in my day to day.
And you flew through SMU. Didn't you say you graduated in like two and a half years or something like that?
[17:19] I don't like much of anything that's organized or forced upon me.
And I got out of there as quickly as I possibly could with a degree in hand.
But yeah, as quickly as I could. And I've been privileged to be running organizations for 15 years now.
Yeah. Yeah. And so how many different organizations, companies have you been a part of over the last couple of years? Three, four?
[17:49] Um let's see that's a great question a lot of them uh we've been really blessed to to participate in a lot of different businesses and different roles incubating a couple um some of the stranger ones like a glass blowing studio and event space which is still going in chicago called ignite glass studios um you know i was able to participate in a in a tea shop um called argo teas also still still going in a solar company, Socor Energy.
That one was sold to Southern California Edison.
But the, you know, my baby, like I said, where I spent, gosh, five years or something, really, really trying to understand and fix some of these issues in the public education system predominantly was our education technology business.
That was the one that I really sunk my teeth into.
[18:49] Since then, you know, and we can talk about the transition, but I lost a loved one to heart disease.
And I ended up spending 30 days in what would become end of life care.
So, the quick back story is my grandfather was going in to get a peg tube put into his abdomen.
The epiglottis, a little flap at the back of your throat, which keeps air or food going in the right tube, tube wasn't working for him anymore.
He was 85-ish years old, 84 years old.
[19:21] And unfortunately, you know, there's no corrective surgery at that age.
You know, if you're born with a birth defect, that's a really simple thing to go in and fix.
But they just decided, hey, 85, you're on your way out anyway.
Let's just put a tube directly into your stomach. And for the rest of your life, you'll be fed this solution called 2-Cal right into your abdomen.
And that was the beginning of me really understanding, you know, food as medicine, food as this thing that is so much more than just the nutrients that you're putting into your body.
Even if you can survive on this sludge directly into your abdomen, food is so much more than that. It is social, right?
It's It's familiar, it's habit, it's taste, it's pleasures, right?
And needless to say, now, fast forward 10 years, we also know that food and your microbiome starts in your mouth with the way that your saliva and these enzymes mix with your food.
And so, like I say, that was just an eye-opener.
[20:28] I immediately knew that a plant-based diet was the solution.
We can talk a little bit more about why I thought that was the case.
And 10 years now, 10 years later, I think almost exactly, I've been vegan to this day.
Right. Yeah. So I...
That was going to be my next question. So like why the passion around a vegan slash plant-based lifestyle?
And before you answer that question, do you call it vegan? Do you call it plant-based?
Do you have a term that you use?
[21:02] Gosh, Rip, you know, you and I should get on the same page here because I was just debating it with some folks on my team because they used plants predominant.
And I was like, what is plant predominant?
Like how many syllables do we need here? like we got plant centric plant forward plant predominant like plant based right vegan um so so i mean the quick answer to your question which is a bigger topic but um i i call myself vegan because i believe in the the ethical lifestyle related to veganism which centers around um you you know, a life minimizing harm to other sentient beings.
[21:46] I'm on the board of an animal sanctuary called Love and Arms here in Colorado.
And I think once you go down the path, whether it starts off as a motivation based in, you know, sustainability and understanding our ecology and our relationship with the physical world and how we rely on things like water and soil, oil, that's a wonderful place to start.
Whether it starts off with animals, that's a wonderful place to start.
For me, it started off selfishly. I was just trying to figure out how to survive longer, how to stay out of the hospital.
But once you go down that path and you start pulling on these threads and you start understanding what we eat has ripple effects that are far, far greater than just what's on the plate, it became really clear to me that I didn't want to be a part of of that system.
And so I call myself vegan because I try to take those, those steps to reduce harm.
[22:43] Plant-based as I, you know, would call it, you know, might not necessarily have that same motivation.
You might, you know, eat a whole food, largely plant-based diet, but maybe you eat a little bit of this, a little bit of that.
And that's not for me to judge.
And then down the road, plant centric, plant forward, plant predominant, I have no idea what those things mean, but I'm glad that they're eating some plants. That seems to be a good thing.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Leaning, leaning into the plants for sure.
Plant lean. I've also heard the plant lean, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Uh, well, but, but so your grandfather died, you saw him with this feeding tube, getting this sludge in, um, into his body.
And so did you, did somebody talk to you about, like yeah yeah yeah benefits of plant-based or like what who who or what was like the spark that ignited it besides you seeing your your sick grandfather.
[23:45] Yeah. So I had been vegetarian since I think high school or so.
I have a terrible memory for this stuff.
But for a long time, based on an uncle who was given a cancer diagnosis, a terminal cancer diagnosis, and found some temporary relief in a raw vegan diet. it.
The quick backstory to that, and I hope it's a warning to everyone, is that my uncle went to the doctor and said, I have back pain.
So, the doctor gave him pain meds, right?
[24:22] You know, three, six months later, he goes back and he says, you know, my eyes hurt, like I've got blurred vision, whatever.
And the doctor says, oh, you just need a stronger prescription for your eyeglasses.
Glasses goes back again three six months later goes look doc like i got these headaches you know and he goes well you know maybe let's do a body scan whatever and they found that he had um tumors all over his body he was in the vietnam war he had been exposed to agent orange that's probably a likely you know uh carcinogenic route to um that uh um symptomology and uh you know sadly um they said there's nothing we can really do here right i mean the brain you know the the tumors were in his brain all along his spine you know causing obviously the headaches eye issues back pain, there's nothing we can do for you you should get your affairs in order my aunt and uncle rejected that idea and they said no we're gonna fight this thing you know so they went and they found, remedies that were being talked about right and folks said that you and I now call friends and and they decided that a you know essentially a raw vegan diet in addition to a lot of what one one would call alternative healing modalities.
[25:48] Some of which we got to try out as a family, kind of in solidarity.
We did a lot of this stuff like, I mean, he went and had these fish, like, sucking toxins out of the bottom of your feet.
You know, like, they tried everything, everything that anyone could say, this is how you bring the body back to a state of healing.
[26:08] And it worked, or it seemed to work. When he was given two weeks and two months or something, and I get some of these facts a little bit wrong.
At that time, I was in high school and far away from it, but hearing the stories and hearing the stories about how he had lived past the prognosis over and over again, just kept living and saw on the scans that these tumors were actually starting to shrink.
And so it was giving them a tremendous amount of hope. It changed our family's life because, like I say, something clicked for me, and I saw ground meat in a very different way at that time.
I've never been able to eat a burger since, right? I just went straight to black bean burgers because that just made more sense to me.
Far be it for me to say that I was vegan or anything like that at that time.
It was not philosophical.
I didn't know that stuff. stuff, I just knew there's something to the way we eat and whether or not we're thriving and enjoying this vibrant health or something goes wrong.
And unfortunately, the story with my uncle ends tragically because they went one day to the oncologist and said, look, these scans are working.
What do you say about it now? And as I hear the story, they said, I don't know anything about that.
But what I do know now is that you're a candidate for chemo, because you're making such great progress with your whole food plant based diet.
[27:35] Now let's give it the one two punch. Let's do chemo in addition to the diet.
And I think what probably wasn't understood is that he had spent the last six months detoxifying his body, right, bringing his body into the state of healing.
And chemo is one of the most poisonous substances known to man, right? And so he started chemo, went into a coma a few days later, and passed away.
[28:03] And again, far be it from me to say that I'm one to speak about the intricacies of cancer and the treatments, and it's such an incredibly tough time.
But the takeaway for me is that food is a path to healing, and that was really the eye opener.
So, fast forward when I was in that hospital with my grandfather, and I realized that there's not a lot that we can do for someone when they're 85 years old, and they're suffering from all sorts of, you know, symptoms related to heart disease.
[28:38] But how do we prevent heart disease? And that's when it went back to the China study, for instance, you know, and some of those early books, you know, that we had read as a family to to understand that there are options and there are remedies to these challenges.
And the best one is to prevent them in the first place by living this way as early and as often as you can. Amen. Amen to that. Matt.
So your next, your next great entrepreneurial endeavor would be Complement, right? You're now the CEO of Complement.
How long has the business been, been going on five years?
Uh, seven, seven years, seven years, seven years ago, you started Complement, um, with Matt Frazier, if I'm not mistaken.
And what, what was the purpose behind starting Complement?
Because everybody loves to hate supplements, right?
And supplements come with a ton of, I think of baggage and skepticism.
I know that I, for the most part, my entire life had been very, very skeptical of, of supplements.
And I know there's a few should be.
[29:56] And I know that there's probably a few that we should be taking.
But why did you decide, all right, you know what, this is gonna be my next endeavor, supplement, a supplement company.
I want to know.
The truth is it wasn't and i'm pulling up my phone because i gotta show you so um because i had just found this photo for the first time in a long time and it kind of proves it um so i had been a on a very whole food almost raw diet without supplements because as you know a lot of there's a lot of criticism and i was i was fully on board with the just eat plants and and everything will take care of itself wagon.
And about a year and a half, two years into eating that way, I had all sorts of weird symptoms. Like I said, I just found this.
Those are my fingernails. You can see the skin is peeling as well.
And those fingernails do not look healthy, do they?
Well, the one in the middle is okay. The other ones don't look healthy.
You're right. It wasn't all the fingernails, but they were looking pretty rough.
They're like like peeling off, I also had psoriasis on my elbows, knees, armpits.
And so I went to the doctor, who of course did these blood tests, and they said, diagnosed me with rheumatoid-like inflammation.
[31:21] He said that my blood looked like a 65-year-old with arthritis.
[31:26] And it was obviously the vegan diet, that I was clearly deficient in certain things.
And I needed to eat red meat for for the iron, you know, fish for the omegas, and probably some other things that he didn't know about.
He referred me to a rheumatologist to probably get on some powerful hormone therapies or whatever else that they do to get inflammation under control.
I said, I can't possibly be right.
Again, goes back to the whole college thing where I'm just a really pig-headed person. I don't like to be told what to do.
And I went back to the literature and I really dug deeper into whether or not the plant-based diet is the healthiest diet, whether or not you can get everything you need on plants.
And I came to the conclusion that it absolutely is the healthiest diet for all the reasons that you and I talk about too much, so I won't get into them, but high fiber, high water content, high nutrient to calorie ratio, all those reasons.
But that doesn't mean that, you know, food is perfect. And it doesn't mean that all of us are perfect every day in what we eat.
And so we can get into those details in terms of why one would want to be more careful or maybe take some supplemental nutrients as well.
For me, I identified B12, vitamin D and omega-3s as like the three things that were probably missing.
[32:52] I started supplementing those. I started testing them. Let me ask you before you go.
So those three, and do you know, like off the top of your head, like what percentage of America or Americans are deficient in D3, omegas, and B12?
[33:15] Vitamin d there's a what you know one would call a uh um a vitamin d epidemic in terms of deficiency the d efficiency you always see the headlines i don't know the specific numbers as of today that's a quick google uh that's i think it's about 65 65 it ain't good um likewise b12 I mean, we supplement our cows, right? We inject cows with B12.
You know, we fortify milks with B12. It's incredibly important.
It's an essential nutrient, and it is widely not consumed sufficiently by any plant eater or carnivore.
Or, again, I don't know those numbers right off the top of my head, but I can tell you B12 is also high in terms of the number of people who are deficient.
[34:09] Omega is tougher because I think the science is not as hard with omega-3s.
There's some debate on how you test it. There's some debate on optimal levels.
There's some debate. um you know it's not like uh the the same um it is an essential nutrient in the sense that we cannot produce it in our bodies um but it is not the same as something like b12 right um in terms of the the lengths that folks have gone to demonstrate if you don't get x or y as an rda you're gonna see x or y down the the line i think we'll get there to me you know my read on is if If you look at a population like Japan, you know, their omega levels are like 10 to 11%, right?
If you look at their blood, you do a fat analysis, you do the high-spectrum chromory altigraphy, right?
And you actually look at what are the fat molecules in their blood.
They're looking at 10 to 11%. They have a ton of fish over there.
Yeah they may also be getting a lot of micro plastics and you know some some nuclear waste and all the other things that you don't want to get from fish um but they're definitely getting a lot of omegas and what you see is a significant cardio and cerebrovascular level of protection um.
[35:37] If you look at the US, we're hovering closer to 4% to 5% across the population.
And you see a lot of potential for an improvement there relative to what I think we could see.
You know, some of the stats that I've seen is that for every, if we could get people to an 8%, that is equivalent to extending your life by five years relative to where you are if you're at an omega-3 index of 4%.
Now, again, they're looking at, you know, it's, as you know better than I, you know, nutrition science is not easy, right?
There's a whole lot of conflating variables and looking at people over the course of their whole life, it's hard.
But when they abstract as much as they can, they do these meta-analyses, it's pretty clear that if you're in that 8% to 11%, you're at a level that is, like I say, cardio and tubovascularly protective.
If you're down in the US level of 3% to 4%, because again, that has nothing to do with plant-based.
That has everything to do with the fact that, you know, it's not easy to get high-quality omega-3s, you're not going to get that same level of protection.
They've computed that to be a potentially five years difference in terms of lifespan.
[37:00] Okay. So I interrupted you there. You were saying the three that you were really interested in were the B12, the D, and the omegas.
Yeah. So, yeah.
[37:10] Uh i started supplementing long story short you know uh three months later my my skin and nails started to improve the psoriasis actually was the thing that that uh that cleared up fastest um went back to get a blood test all those markers of inflammation had right sized within six months my nails are fine you know eight years later or something oh they're gorgeous You can be a model.
And thank God I cut my nails because that sometimes is something I forget.
So that would have been really embarrassing if I was showing everybody.
But yeah, eight years later, I still get quarterly blood tests.
[37:51] And, you know, everything's great. I'm probably healthier.
I'm certainly fitter than I ever have been in my life.
And I attribute it because I've been taking these complementary nutrients in addition to B12, vitamin D, and these omegas, we've looked at it and really said, there are some complicating factors.
There's some stories that we can tell about why one might want to look at these eight other nutrients, or I should say eight total nutrients, as being a perfect complement to a plant-based diet.
And I'll stop there because I know we're going to pack a lot into this conversation.
I'm going to get in the way of your narrative.
Well, I love, I love the name Complement. I mean, that's, it's so brilliant.
How did you come up with the name Complement? Was it?
[38:41] You know, it's because the philosophy, right, which you and I both believe in so much is that you, vibrant health starts with whole foods.
It's always gotta be there.
And actually I'm like the worst CEO of a supplement company that you can find.
Cause the first thing I tell people is like supplement tank and a savior.
We have this like quick fix culture where it's like, oh, if I just take, you know, these reishi mushrooms and I combine them with these like incredibly high doses of magnesium and they put it all together and like, you know, I'm going to have vibrant health.
And we know that's not to be, you know, trusted if anyone tells you that, right?
[39:24] Supplements ain't going to save you. It starts with whole plants.
That needs to be the center of your diet is these incredible, vibrant little things that have all these nutrients, right, in addition to enzymes and prebiotic fiber and the water content like we've talked about that all matrix in this way that we've evolved to thrive on. It's got to start with plants.
[39:49] Then after the plans, I would tell people to work on sleep and activity, right?
So get your food right, your whole foods right, get your sleep right, get your activities right.
Soon after that, it's the other pillars of lifestyle medicine in case people haven't caught on where I'm going with this.
You know, it's your social interactions. It's finding purpose and meaning in your daily efforts, right? Right.
And if you get all of those pillars dialed in, right, then you probably also will look at some complementary nutrients because every diet is going to have peaks and valleys in terms of what we're consuming.
Well, that's because of seasonality, like literally the seasons change, right?
We don't notice that that much anymore, you know, because we're getting pears from Guatemala in the middle of winter.
But seasonality does affect the nutrient quality of what we're eating you know the way we've changed our soils for the worse right modern agricultural practices have absolutely decimated the microbial health of our uh soils and so things like b12 right it doesn't matter if you're eating dirty vegetables which is by the way a terrible uh approach to getting a incredibly important important neurological agent like B12.
But hey, if you want to eat your dirty vegetables as a path, that silda probably doesn't have all of these bacterially derived vitamins and minerals because.
[41:19] You know, our soil is dead. It doesn't have that same life.
So I could go on and on. We can talk about the specific nutrients, but the point to answer your question directly is complement just makes sense when you look at it in that, whatever you want to call it, that system, that matrix of all these different inputs that are required to really find that incredible vibrant health that we're all looking for.
It has to start with whole foods. And then these are really the complementary supplementary things that you can add on once you get the rest of those those pillars dialed in yeah well what's interesting is as i mentioned earlier in the conversation you know we we met you were interviewing me for plantapalooza and the big irony there is that we plant strong foods had just been investigating actually doing some supplementation because we know about the b12 right how everybody should be supplementing even if you're not eating plant-based you want to be supplement b12 the fact that 65 plus percent of the population is low or deficient in d right is also very important and then you know the omega-3s is just there's there's so much information around there that to me suggests that maybe as a nice insurance policy you might might want to be supplementing with that DHA and EPA to help because everybody's conversion enzymes.
[42:48] From the short chain alpha linoleic acid into these longer chain DHA and EPA is different.
So we could be eating the exact same thing, but because of your genetic diversity with these enzymes, we might not be converting the same.
So we started looking cooking and it's amazing to me we were looking for co-manufacturers that can make them and how many are just putting you know fillers crap what's the capsule what's the form and you.
[43:20] When I, after the conversation or after you interviewed me, I started asking you questions and every answer you had, you'd gone down that path.
You'd done the serious homework, you'd done your due diligence.
And I was absolutely so impressed. And, uh, and so the fact that you, the fact that you guys are doing supplements, right.
And you don't have a laundry list of 80 different products that you're selling, right? Right.
I mean, you've got like a handful of products also to me, lends credibility to the fact that, you know, you guys.
[43:58] You you there's a certain there's certain truth and substance, I think, in Complement and what you guys stand for, which which really which really resonated to me.
And then obviously after meeting you and spending time with you, I realized what a class act as a human being you were.
[44:15] So um i'm what can i say i am a fan i'm a fan of you i'm a fan of what you, and matt and company have done with Complement and so what i'd love to do matt let's i'd love to talk about some of the products that you guys that you guys carry and i'd love to start why don't we start with the Complement essential because you mentioned earlier the the eight different kind of um, things that, that people should be getting.
So what's, what, what is the Complement essentials all about?
[44:48] Well, let me, first of all, thank you for the kind words. And let me, uh, start by commenting on a couple of things you brought up, which is, you know, uh, earlier in the conversation, you talked about how supplements have a bad rap. And I said, that's that they should, right.
And, and people should be, um, hesitant, uh, and, and not necessarily, um, quickly to trust, trust uh you know the manufacturers of of certain supplements um because in doing this for this many years i could tell you some some really scary stories about what people are willing to do um because they just you know lack that ethical clarity and and that's why i always joke that you know it's not the usda standards the fda standards the organic standards like you know we we look at those and say, okay, let's go past those, right?
Let's look at what am I willing to give to my growing children or my wife through four pregnancies, which is like the height of, you know, nutritional intensity.
[45:52] And that's truly, I mean, we've joked, but it's been a true sort of mainstay in our conversations from the very beginning when Matt Frazier and I got together other and and launched Complement and said you know it's got to be good enough for our families right and because we wouldn't give our kids like a bunch of fillers and excipients and all this stuff we wouldn't we wouldn't play around with these numbers as some other manufacturers might do we we wouldn't do these proprietary blends which allow us to hide what is actually in this product if we're giving it to our families right and so i just say that because that's that's really the North Star for us.
And it's the highest threshold that we have to meet to feel good about what is put out there.
And happy to share some of those horror stories about other manufacturers. But I'll just...
[46:45] Wow. I'll wrap up that part by saying, you know, you called out that we don't sell a bunch of random stuff.
We don't. In fact, we've been very careful.
We only sell whatever it is, five products, because we truly believe that those are what is complementary to a plant-based diet.
And it's kind of crazy when you look at some of these copycat competitors that we have, and they're selling like vegan vitamin C.
It's like, look, man, eat an orange, right? Like it's got a ton of vegan vitamin C and I'm pretty sure all vitamin C is vegan.
Like this is just like you trying to take advantage of people and we're never going to go down that route.
That's just not where we are focused for us. It's about how do we create products that really align with our values and do something special and unique for the plant-based community.
Well, and I love that you are so singularly kind of focused on that niche, right? The the plant-based community.
Because to me, you're kind of, in some ways, leaving a lot of business.
[47:52] Off the table by having that be your messaging when you probably have some of the best forms of, you know, the best B12 and D and omega-3s on the market.
So I think that, you know, this should be pushed out beyond just the plant-based.
But to me, what it signifies to me is, and you guys talk about this on your website, when you thrive on your plant-based diet, the whole plant-based movement thrives.
And that to me, to me, again, is, is a nice indicator of where you guys are coming from, right?
What, what, and, and, and that you truly want the plant-based movement to like, to thrive because it is, it's so vitally important to humankind. Yeah.
Thriving Plant-Based Movement and Fixing Health Epidemics
[48:37] Yeah, exactly. We, you know, the reason we don't have any interest, I shouldn't say we don't have any interest in serving others, but we have a focus on serving the plant-based community because that is our mission, right?
It is to fix these, you know, epidemics of ill health, the many of which you and I both know, 88% of people are metabolically unfit. we know the solution and it's not supplements, right?
It's, it's whole food and plant-based eating.
That's, that's where we have to go.
And it's just, as you said, you know, how many times have you been in a conversation with somebody and they say, oh, I used to be vegan, or I tried being vegan, but just didn't work, right?
Like there are far more people who used to be vegan than there there are people who are currently vegan.
And that's a real problem if we care about this movement and we want to grow this community.
And that's what we're so focused about is how do we ensure that when someone goes to the doctor's office, like I did, and the doctor says, your vegan diet is the problem.
How do we equip them going back to education with the intellectual tools to fight back and say, you know what?
No, no, my vegan diet is great. wait, I've got the fiber and the water and the nutrient to calorie ratio, and all these different things are dialed in.
And by the way, I've got B12 and D3 and K2 and selenium and iodine in this supplement.
[50:07] I'm good. What are you talking about, doc? And if we can have those conversations, you're going to see a lot of people stay the course with their plant-based diet.
But, and of course, by the way, I use the doctor's office because it is such an emotionally charged place for a lot of people.
And the doctor is a highly influential role in our society and in our individual lives.
But let's go back to the beginning, right? The idea is how do we prevent deficiencies?
How do we prevent any sort of symptoms that may lead you to that doctor's office?
How do we ensure that you feel really, really good? Good.
One of our friends, she goes by Plentiful Kiki, so I'll just say that.
[50:52] Yeah, she's been on the podcast.
Yeah, Kiki is a wonderful, wonderful woman. Her and Jeremy have such a beautiful family.
And she tells this story about one day that Jeremy, you know, standing behind his head, Kiki, I think you have a bald spot, you know, and we had zero relationship with Kiki at this time, she found Complement, she started taking it, I don't know how long she took it before she regrew her hair.
And it you know now she is like the number one promoter and again we didn't find her we didn't send her any Complement we didn't pay her to say that she's out there promoting us and it's just like that is exactly the story that we want to see right is that people are just that they're they're fixing issues right they're they're thriving on this plant-based diet and then they're going to stay the course because of that so um tell me i'm happy to go you know talk about specific nutrients i don't want to be too long-winded here no i i'd love actually to talk about some of your products that you have like let's start with the b12 yeah i should say your triple b12 which is it's a multi-form um vitamin b12 so why why multi-form and why is that better and you know truth be told i've got some of your b12 in my pantry and it's a spray right right?
[52:16] Everything else I've ever used, because B12 is something that I don't mess around with, everything else, I've just been taking a pill for. But you guys have your spray.
And so why the spray? And why multiform?
[52:31] So the spray is easy. Sublingual absorption, as in through the mouth, under the tongue, is the best way to get that B12 in your body.
If it has to go in the in your gut and work its way out right through the absorption pathways there um it's not going to become as bioavailable so spray works for that reason secondly if you have kids super convenient but it was really because you know and i use that with my kids um but it's really because of uh the sublingual absorption is better we have three forms in there there.
Methylcobalamin, adenosylcobalamin, and hydroxycobalamin. And how long did it take you to say those three words?
I still can't say those three words.
[53:25] Docahexacoinic acid, DHA. I still can't say DHA or EPA.
I will always default to DHA and EPA. Those two words I cannot, I will never get, um, doxa doxa hexa can know anyway. Um, so yeah.
[53:42] So, first of all, that's why it's sublingual. We chose those three forms because one is a coenzyme of B12, and that's the hydroxycobalamin.
And that one is particularly good because it has a long half-life.
It stays in your body for a longer period of time.
Methylcobalamin is actually the most bioavailable. It's the easiest absorbed.
And then adenocobalamin, equally together, together has been shown to increase the bioavailability of all three so in a clinical study setting you might see a lot of the hydroxycobalamin it's getting into a tongue twister here yeah um but what they've proven is that all three of them combined is actually the best way to move the needle in terms of the getting the b12 into your circulatory system and into the cells where we want it and by the way just to double down i know you've recently and I've been talking to Lori Marvis about these important micronutrients.
But the B12, like whether you buy it from us or buy it from somebody else, like that is one that, I mean, if you care about, you know, your nervous system.
That's a non-negotiable. Absolutely.
[54:56] And there are some people still to this day in the plant-based community, some that you and I know and love and respect, who still aren't quite there for everybody.
They say that kind of thing it's like i just think it really undermines um the message right where we should we should speak with clarity that there are certain things that and again it's not a plant-based thing it's just a function of like this is a bacteria that we don't you know or i should say a bacterially derived vitamin and there is no good source in the human food system today absolutely well it's what's interesting is um i've got a brother that just got tested he had had his whole blood work done and his b12 came back and it was 275 so he was flagged for being low and you know um the last time that i had mine checked i was 950 right so i was i was pushing you know right around a thousand in the range if i'm not mistaken is like 200 to like 1200 ish 13, I'm going to be over 500.
Okay. Got it. Got it. So, and I asked him and he just said that he hasn't been great about taking his B12 on a daily basis and obviously he doesn't, probably doesn't need enough Red Star nutritional yeast or enough of the fortified plant-based milks that are out there. So, yeah.
[56:25] So he needs he needs some of the triple the triple b12 baby well we can send him some for sure give me his address um the i'll just quickly you know i use this analogy of a house plant sometimes when i think about nutrients and it's helped me a lot to you know kind of for my own commitment both to high quality whole foods i always like to come back to that as well as why you should take you you know, other nutrients every single day.
And if you think about a houseplant, you would never go 15, 20 days without putting water in a houseplant. It's going to start to wilt, right?
And then you dump three gallons of water on top of it, right?
And then you go another three or four weeks without feeding it.
That's not an optimal way to give, you know, the plant the nutrient it needs, right?
[57:21] The H2O. It's the same for our bodies, right?
Our bodies every single day are putting a tremendous amount of work into this incredible orchestra, these systems to keep us thinking and moving and sleeping and doing all these things.
Like, you don't want to go two or three weeks without any of these nutrients and then just like try to take a bunch, right?
And eat really well for three days and then go another three weeks where you're on on a standard American diet, that's not right.
We all know this intuitively, but somehow if I think about it as a parallel with a house plant, right? Like, oh yeah, yeah.
You know, three gallons of water once a month is not the same as eight ounces every other day, right?
So give your body that little drip of high quality nutrients, again, first in the form of whole plant foods, but maybe Maybe in terms of, you know, non-food nutrients as well, if you've determined that you need those. Yeah.
So you've also got another product called Complement Essentials, and that's a combination of eight.
Eight different, I guess you'd call essential vitamins and minerals.
Yep. What are the eight, and why do you specifically have those eight in that formula?
[58:36] Yeah, so we've talked about a number of them.
Again, you know, the core three that I like to point to is B12, vitamin D, and omega-3s, DHA, and EPA.
In addition to those, we have iodine, magnesium, selenium, zinc, and that's it. And K2.
And K2. Thank you. K2, I know I missed one.
[59:00] It's a lot to remember. And each one of them, we looked really closely at all of the essential vitamins and minerals, worked with some PhDs, some MDs, some RDs, and said, if you're eating a diverse plant-based diet, what are you getting plenty of?
And what are you getting that, you know, maybe, you know, a little of, or maybe you're getting none of, right?
And we really thought hard about, and every one of those eight had to really fight their way onto that list. And we can talk about the specific ones.
We've already mentioned B12. We've already mentioned vitamin D, which again has nothing to do with a plant-based diet.
You know, cows' meat and dairy milk are fortified with vitamin D because we have an epidemic in this country.
It largely has to do with the fact that vitamin D is synthesized on your skin.
Skin so if you wear clothing or if you live in a box or if you drive in a box right and you eat at restaurants in a box right like you know if you're not exposing a good amount of your skin to the sun on a daily basis you're going to be you know on the lower end of that that vitamin d spectrum.
[1:00:12] By the way fun fact uh you actually synthesize the vitamin d on your skin so if you go to the beach and and then immediately after you jump in the ocean or you you take a shower you can actually wash off some of that vitamin d before it gets reabsorbed into your system um i will also point out that vitamin d is fat soluble it's not water soluble so unlike b12 you do want to be careful about the upper tolerance limits because you can have um you know a toxicity to vitamin d you cannot have too much vitamin D from the sun.
There may be skin cancers concerned, but life's about trade-offs.
So you'll never overdose by being in the sun.
You know, your body has that reabsorption mechanism to protect yourself.
But taking 10, 20,000 IU a day, you know, can certainly over time build up in your fat stores and create a toxicity.
[1:01:11] Really briefly, I'll just call out some of the other ones that i uh i think are lesser known um we've talked a little bit about the the long chain fatty acids the omega-3s dh and epa i'm so passionate about that one we've, talked about the percentages and how low we find uh folks in the us might be but i also think that within the plant-based population there's a lot of um misinformation and again it comes back to this like distaste that we have for for any non-food nutrient source otherwise known as supplements um and a lot of it comes back to oh well i i i use flax oil i eat walnuts right or They're, you know, hemp seeds, right?
And it's true that those are a great source of an omega-3 called alpha-linoic acid, ALA, an easier-to-pronounce cousin of DHA and EPA. Yeah, yeah.
But the reality is about maybe one out of every four people actually have the genetic disposition, as you were referencing earlier, to convert internally ALA to DHA and EPA.
DPA and that conversion process is very, very inefficient.
[1:02:26] So, if you believe that you need a thousand milligrams of DHA and DPA every day, and I think you might even need more than that, but to each their own, you would have to eat so much in terms of ALA and to convert that over to DHA, DPA to get to that level.
It's mathematically impossible to get there.
And that is, by the way, if you are one of the genetic converters, if you happen to have the genetic capability to make that conversion.
So don't run the risk of, of having a teaspoon of flax oil in your salad, um.
[1:03:03] You know, and say, that's where I'm going to get my ALA or a handful of walnuts, you're not going to get the cerebro and cardiovascular benefits, let alone the protections that you can get from, you know, an algae-based DHA and EPA.
[1:03:19] And I emphasize the algae because, you know, for instance, for us, our algae is grown in sustainable ponds, right?
So, we reuse the water, the inputs it's a salt uh the sun right and uh and water we grow this algae we drain the ponds we reuse that water we dry the algae we we suck all the the fatty acids out of it right and so it doesn't have any of the micro plastic it doesn't have any of that toxic sludge or or the nuclear waste that might be in our oceans which you know depending on the the the brand if you were to take a fish oil you might be worried about.
So, again, find a high-quality algae-based omega. It's really simple.
We actually, because of what I said before, have a separate product, which is called Omega Complex.
And there again, like the B12, we looked at what is the optimal combination of omega threes that we can put together to give people that boost if they decide that complement essential, essential, which is our multivitamin, it's a really minimalistic approach. It's supposed to be an insurance policy.
It's not these mega doses like a multivitamin. So for those who want a little bit more, we have the Omega Complex.
And again, that's DHA, EPA.
[1:04:38] It also has ALA from flax, as well as stereodonic acid, which is SDA.
[1:04:44] And again, we looked at the clinical literature and said, this is the best combination to really get that.
That number up and, you know, it's about a thousand milligrams of omegas, of course, all plant-based sources.
[1:05:00] Well, it's incredible to me, Matt, how knowledgeable you have become in this field and in your breath. breath. I recently had Dr.
Joel Fuhrman on the PLANTSTRONG podcast and in reading his book, his latest book, Eat for Life, not Eat to Live, because Eat to Live was the one that he wrote back in 2001, 2002, that's sold millions of copies.
But this is his most recent one, Eat for Life.
He mentions how he's been seeing patients since the 1990, I think he said 1995.
So a long, long, long time. And his specific specialty is nutrition, right? That's why he went to medical school.
Like he wants to specialize in nutrition.
And he was telling me how he has seen so many people.
And one of the major issues that he sees is people getting adequate DHA levels.
And he said how adequate DH levels can prevent these amyloid, the amyloid accumulation that we get in our brain that can accelerate alzheimer's and dementia and then he also talked about how also a lack of dha can cause brain shrinkage what a crazy scary term that is specifically around especially specifically around the hippocampus um and so that's that's something that none of us wants and so to me.
[1:06:27] You know, I've kind of, I've kind of done a bit of a reversal based upon the science and talking to people that I, that I really believe in and trust and the Omega threes.
I'm like, all right, I want to take that a little bit of insurance policy to know that I'm not getting the brain shrinkage and, you know, inducing any amyloid accumulation in my brain.
[1:06:49] So, yeah. So again, so, and I, and I did this, I started doing this before you and I met.
So it was just coincidence that we met, and I got to see, again, the degree to which you and your company are so passionate about bringing these products to people that are plant-based and wanting everybody to be able to thrive.
So I think you did a great job. They're talking about the omega-3s.
I would like to ask you, is there anything you wanted to say about what I just said or not? You know, the beta amyloid plaques in your brain is certainly something that I think all of us worry about.
And I'm glad you bring it back to omega-3s. You're right.
DHA in particular. I mean, I've got four growing brains in my house, and I think about DHA a ton.
I don't remember the actual number, but by weight, if you look at a brain, by weight, it is composed of a very high percentage of DHA.
And that goes to the brain shrinkage, right?
It's something like, I think it might be as much as 12% of your brain is actually made out of these fatty acids.
So it's an incredible thing, and we shouldn't take it for granted.
It, but I always like to be the, like I said, it's like the worst supplement CEO I could be, right?
Because, you know, the other great way to prevent beta amyloid plaques is.
[1:08:14] Sleep you know when you sleep there's actually a fluid that goes a lot you know washes your brain like and it sweeps out this beta amyloid plaque and i always think about that like when i'm going to bed and when i'm not getting enough sleep i think about like that that visual like watering the plant and getting those nutrients every day like somehow that visual of like i am i'm washing out this this this stuff and and making sure that all my white matter and gray matter is pristine and clean and preventing all that that uh that dementia um it's really important so yeah take your omegas but also get your sleep yeah and another thing is somebody very very close to me that also follows a whole food plant-based diet had a blood panel done and their omega-3s were 3.5 percent and we talked about where you want your percentages to be And so to me, and it's not to me a matter of this person wasn't eating enough green leafies because they're eating four to six servings of green leafies a day.
They're doing two big tablespoons of ground flaxseed meal on their cereal or in their salads.
They're doing, you know, a handful of walnuts a day. So to me, I'm like, well, maybe it's a fact. It's a fact.
It's a genetic thing there where they just don't have the conversion enzymes. Right.
[1:09:33] Something like that. So, again, all coming back to me, the importance of also knowing your numbers, right? I mean, let's know your numbers.
And so I know that's something that you guys are working on as well.
Well yeah you know um so the the story i like to tell here uh to emphasize is is like it's kind of crazy that the status quo is for you and i both to walk into whole foods and see 13 or 14 different multivitamins and they all are essentially the same because they're all just putting every every essential vitamin and mineral into that bottle based on the recommended daily allowance or recommended daily intake, you know, that comes from the USDA, right?
[1:10:31] It's kind of crazy that we imagine that what you would pick out is the same as what I need, right?
And that the maximum level of customization is like man, woman, old, medium, or young. Like, seriously?
Like, that's where we're at as a society? It's like, that's not the best way to understand this incredibly important dimension of your health.
And so with that in mind, we've developed a system called Insight, where you can use a finger prick and then get a consultation with a registered dietitian and then get a custom pill pack, which I actually just took mine. So that was poor planning.
I always have like a half a pill pack laying around my wife's headset.
[1:11:18] But the point is that in each one of those is exactly what you need.
For me, I actually take some additional B vitamins, alpha lipoic acid, extra vitamin D, more omegas, and complement essential.
And that's just because, for me, I've been low in vitamin D.
I live in Colorado. It's really cold outside.
I wear a lot of clothing, and I don't just bake my face in the sun every single day in the winter.
So I need a little bit more vitamin D. I have high homocysteine because of a genetic snippet.
Alpha lipoic acid has helped me bring my homocysteine level down, which is part of our blood testing regime.
That homocysteine can contribute to atherosclerosis and therefore heart disease.
So I want to bring that down. I've seen that come down with a combination of B vitamins and alpha lipoic acid.
And so when you think about the potential that we have to understand our numbers like you're suggesting, and then And to take these really simple steps to totally change the trajectory of our health, it's a no-brainer.
And again, I'm the first one to say, if you're comfortable going to your doctor and telling them, hey, I eat a vegan diet.
I want to get a ferritin panel that measures iron.
I want you to test methylmalonic acid as a long-term marker for B12 status.
[1:12:45] You know, I want to understand my omega status, right?
I want to get tested for all of these lipid panels, right?
And anything else that they, of course, suggest, do that, right?
And then call us up and we can help you out with whatever nutrients you need to go to Amazon.
But I really do encourage people to do that testing because it is so easy. It really is.
Sometimes it's expensive. You do go to the doctor's office.
We've tried to provide this at-home solution that's a heck of a lot cheaper.
Get tested. It's really, really important. It's so easy.
And you just know where you're at. And then you can make informed decisions about what nutrients you might need.
Because like I say, we all have these peaks and valleys.
Rip, when you and I got to spend that time in Sedona, a quick unsolicited endorsement for anyone who wants to change their life to go to one of your PLANTSTRONG retreats.
Because, man, that is so powerful just to be around those people with that energy.
I came home in a totally different mindset.
And to this day, whatever it's been, three months later, I am still way, way more whole foods than I was in the years prior.
I definitely had lost a little bit of that. Things happen when you have a bunch of little ones in the house, right?
[1:14:13] And it's a life-changing event. But anyway, getting back to it.
You know, you probably eat a lot more kale than almost anyone in the world does, right?
And so you're getting, you know, a certain set of nutrients because you eat a lot of kale, right?
Somebody else who eats a lot of spinach, you know, might be getting a lot more foley, right? And they do handfuls of spinach in that smoothie.
And so it's just understanding, you know, what are the nutrients you're getting?
And then how do you complement those nutrients with what you might need from a non-food source?
[1:14:48] Course what is there anything that you guys are working on right now any any new products that you're going to add to the repertoire or you guys you guys like feel like you're done are you always researching and looking for new stuff um there are a couple things that we have added carefully um because there are uh folks out there that want these less commonly consumed consumed plant-based foods.
They're not those Complement that we've been talking about. You can get them.
But people are out there buying them for convenience, by way of example.
Things like we have a Daily Greens product, which has chlorella and moringa and gluten-free barley grass, I should say, broccoli sprouts.
[1:15:41] Those are incredible superfoods if you want to use those names.
I mean, like in a teaspoon of this stuff. And it's just ground, you know, chlorella. It's ground moringa.
[1:15:54] And you can get as much vitamin A, you know, in like one teaspoon as you would in like two cups of broccoli.
And these are not fortified, right? right? These are naturally occurring vitamin D that comes from these incredible greens.
But how many of us are actually getting barley grass or moringa or chlorella or broccoli sprouts?
Broccoli sprouts, by the way, I always try to eat because of the sulforaphane, which we hear all these things about sulforaphane maybe being an anti-cancer.
[1:16:29] But how many of us actually eat broccoli sprouts every single day, right?
And so, So we wanted to provide a convenient way for people who are already looking for these things to know this is third-party tested, that we do everything we can to reduce the levels of lead and other heavy metals.
We really try to be sensitive to what is wrong with these other products in the world, and then how do we do it 10 times better, including down to the packaging, which all of our packaging is compostable.
We never use plastic.
Even the packing peanuts, you know, those little peanuts that get everywhere where you open the package? They're pretty big.
Those are actually, they will melt in water and you can drink them.
They are derived from potato.
[1:17:25] Potato peanuts. Someone on our team actually did it.
It was brave of them. But I stand by, you know, like I say, we go the length to use even our cardboard boxes, right, our post-consumer recycled materials.
So we really feel, you know, proud about that.
The last one I'll say is we do have a protein product there, too.
We don't believe that most people need supplemental protein.
I'll, again, put on my hat as, like, the worst supplement company CEO.
You get plenty of protein from things like greens, but let alone tempeh, tofu, beans.
That's where I get most of my protein from.
However, a lot of people like supplemental protein, including me.
And that one in particular was so, I think, criminal when you look at what people do.
Not to mention the fact that it all comes in these big half-empty plastic tubs that end up decomposing for 30,000 millennia.
We're going to have more plastic tubs and protein power than anything else on Earth at some point.
[1:18:35] But we really wanted to address something where if you put proprietary blend on an ingredient list, you can pretty much mislead the consumer in what I think are just really unethical ways.
And so what we did was the exact opposite.
[1:18:52] And we put on the front of the package the actual percentages of each of the ingredients that we put in there.
Because for us, what we found, and I believe to be the case, is that most plant-based protein powders are 99% pea protein.
[1:19:08] That's because it's an extremely cheap and it's an extremely dense plant-based protein.
And we use a lot of pea protein as well.
But you don't want 99% pea protein. You want a diverse complexion of, or I should say a combination of amino acids, because that's how our bodies work by building up these amino acids.
And so we built a complete set of plant-based amino acids by including almonds, pumpkin seeds, chia seeds, sunflower seeds, in addition to pea protein.
And on the front of the package, you can actually see there's 12% almond in there. There's 14% pumpkin seeds. There's 6% chia seeds.
And so we really stand by that. I could go on and on for why I think that truly is a product that's 10 times better than what you would find out there uh in addition to the fact that there's no sweetener there's there's no flavoring there's no artificial or natural flavors nothing like that what about what's in the chocolate what gives the chocolate the chocolatey flavor the the chocolate does have organic flavoring i'm talking about the the un the unflavored one where this product started and is the cleanest thing that you will ever find.
It is truly just these protein sources in a bag.
And so for those of us who believe you should flavor your smoothie with fruits.
[1:20:32] At most a ripe banana, that's all the sugar you need.
We did, as I was going to say, then add on a chocolate version of that.
It's still, I think, cleaner than anything you're going to find out there, but you will see a little bit of sweetener and, like I say, organic flavors.
That way you can enjoy it. Well, we –.
[1:20:55] I know you guys claim to have the world's cleanest protein powder.
I want you to know that we claim to have the world's cleanest pancake and waffle mixes.
So, you know, one of the things that my son does, my son's 16, and he's convinced that he needs more protein.
And so he takes his protein powder and he combines it with our pancake mix.
And man, it is like lights out good and delicious.
By the way so my that is what i've been doing with complement protein and the PLANTSTRONG pancake mix um every saturday or sunday morning depends uh it's always papa pancakes and i that is our tradition i know it's the same for you i believe on saturdays um and i have uh we we used to uh gosh what were we using before maybe it's a vegan version of like the birch benders um Um, anyway, I don't remember what it was, but we have switched over to, uh, the PLANTSTRONG pancake mix, which is awesome.
The gluten free one for my wife, by the way, super fluffy.
And then sometimes not always, cause it's great on some, but sometimes a lot in the extra, extra protein and, uh, it's, it's yummy.
The protein gives it like a, a dense, like scone type, uh, type, uh, consistency.
[1:22:20] Yeah. It's, it's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. You also, you also have a gut, a gut product.
[1:22:28] Yeah. So there's a theme here. There's a theme here. And thank you for the opportunity to share all these details with your community.
Listen, absolutely. And I want you to know it's my privilege, privilege because I, I.
[1:22:44] You know, it's funny how now that I have a food company, I look at things a little bit differently, and I have so much admiration for what you've done, what you've launched.
You know, as I've said five times already, the due diligence that you've put into this, everything from all the ingredients and your transparency and the fact that you're third party tested and the fact that everything is so your packaging, your peanuts, your potato peanuts, everything is so environmentally friendly.
So you really, you know, Matt, you guys, you walk the walk when it comes to sustainability and being, in my opinion, PLANTSTRONG .
And so I'm a I'm a huge fan of you and what you guys are doing.
So, yeah, that goes that goes a long ways.
You know, I was talking to my wife, by the way, those third test results are also available on our website. site.
So if you want to go on there and see that it's passed, you know, a coli and salmonella and other pathogens, but also, you know, where it meets in terms of other standards, you deserve that information.
[1:23:57] And so we're really proud to have those right on any of our, any of the products pages as you're, as you're checking them out.
So, but thank you. It goes, you know, it means a lot. lot.
I'll just really quickly say you brought up gut nurture. There again was one where we just looked around and said, like, all these people are wasting so much money on these probiotics and kombuchas.
And we, again, kind of starting off with that place of education, decided, what do we really want to tell?
Like, what's the story that needs to be told here?
And it's one that says, actually, probiotics are probably the worst thing you should add to a gut that maybe experienced some sort of dysbiosis.
[1:24:46] And the beautiful analogy that was given to me is like, Imagine your gut is this city, and it's got all these inhabitants, right?
It's got the virome and the bile and the bacteria and the, you know, just tons.
I mean, far be it for me to be the GI expert, but there's trillions of inhabitants of all sorts in your gut, right?
And imagine that's a city. And the city is actually really poorly managed.
It's breaking down. There's no transportation systems, right?
Right? There's no police officers, the fire department's been disbanded, right?
Like, the city is in disarray. But you have all these trillions of people, these little things, you know, the DNA of which outnumbers the DNA of our human body, right?
[1:25:36] They're in there. And so, your solution is probiotics, which is more bacteria.
You're adding more inhabitants to an already totally messed up city.
That's not the way to do it. Instead, you've got to rebuild that city from the ground up.
You've got to nurture the inhabitants and the systems and the absorption pathways and the coenzymes and the digestive agents and everything else that goes towards a properly functioning microbiota, right?
The symbiosis that we enjoy with all of these friendly inhabitants.
And so when we looked at it, we said, we're going to create a probiotic, but it's not going to have probiotics in it.
It's going to be in that. What we really want to do is nurture the gut.
And so we put fermented vegetables.
[1:26:27] Fermented vitamins, these like molybdenum and B vitamins, ginger, which we all know to help soothe the gut, and then postbiotics.
So, the way to think about it is prebiotics are the fiber that your gut bacteria feasts on.
By the way, if you have a very low fiber diet, they'll turn inwardly and start to eat away at the lining of your gut, which can lead to gut leaky gut syndrome, once again, an important reason why we need more fiber in our diet, which of course only comes from plants.
But prebiotics are like the fiber fuel, right?
Probiotics are the bacteria that eats that fiber. And then they excrete a number of these vitamins and other important enzymes, which are the post biotics, right?
And so what we did was, like I said, included the prebiotic fiber.
[1:27:31] The fermented vitamins, as well as the postbiotic endpoints that then we believe will nurture, you know, which we developed with two incredible RDs who are GI specialists, and they've been using this cocktail with their patients for for years to really great results.
So we wanted to try to make it easier for their community.
But most importantly, bringing this story that emphasizes that you shouldn't just add sauerkraut and kimchi and kombucha and all these and take a probiotic.
Most of those probiotics, by the way, are dead on arrival.
It says like 56 trillion bacteria. It's like, why do we think that's a good idea to add 56 trillion bacteria to your gut?
In a single go like it has it's completely disconnected with anything that you might imagine we'd find in nature but anyway so for us it's all about how do we nurture the gut so we can take care of those inhabitants and then obviously add on new bacterial strains which we get in plenty if we're eating a diverse set of of uh of raw fruits and vegetables yeah how long How long have you had that product available?
[1:28:50] It's relatively new. It's relatively new, just maybe a year or so. Well –.
[1:28:56] If fiber is the main calling card that helps create a healthy microbiome and gut, the stats that I've heard are 96% of Americans aren't getting enough fiber.
The RDA, which is roughly, I think, 28 grams of fiber.
I think it's just ridiculous. this um and the number one and the number one gastrointestinal issue that we are facing as a country is constipation yeah and so it's just it's nutty to me and it all it all comes back to the main pillar that you and i have been talking about here today which is you know everything starts with a whole food plant-based you know dietary pattern and then from there let's let's spread our wings and get the sleep and the socialization and the movement and the exercise.
And then like you have said, and the reason you've started your company, let's fill in, fill in, fill in any potential cracks here, get some testing done.
Let's see where we are and then fill in the cracks as a nice little insurance policy.
[1:30:05] Yeah. Couldn't, couldn't say it better myself.
And you know, you brought up the fiber deficit in the standard American diet.
I mean, man, that it that that that bears repeating and that's why you know our obsession with protein i think is i mean just just crazy right like we should all be really focused on on fiber and the worst part as you just said with the constipation like um i recently uh had a friend not a plant-based person she was asking me about our products and all that stuff and she's like yeah i went to a dietician and you know she uh she told me to take metamucil obviously for the constipation um and the probiotic to like get the gut going better and i'm like okay you know and i had to start back at the beginning of my gut nurture it's like like you got this city oh my god yeah yeah like but you know unfortunately people don't realize like you know the best thing that you can do for your gut is eat a really big salad.
Like the kind of salad that has, you know, the beans and the broccoli and all this stuff in there. Like I guarantee it'll cure any constipation.
If you add some ground flax seeds, I can guarantee you that you will not have a constipation issue.
Oh yeah. All right. So Matt, anything exciting you have today besides, you know, working on Complement and taking care of your four kids?
[1:31:34] Rip, thank you for having such a rich conversation about these things.
As we talked about, it can be so over-dramatized, so controversial, so religious in nature when it comes to conversations that should otherwise really just come down to the science.
Right and i hope i've uh emphasized um enough times that you know we're all on the same team here that it starts with whole foods and then it's followed by all these lifestyle interventions, and then you just want to be thoughtful about what nutrients you might be getting enough of or where you might want to fill some holes and that's the message that we really want to bring to the table it's one that centers uh in education around you know what we're doing to to our soils you know what vegetables actually look like after a three-week journey from ecuador right and like what is actually happening in in our ecology in our relationship with the outer world and i really really am grateful for you offering this platform that we can have a such a thoughtful conversation about it yeah well it's just it's something that everybody asks about what what supplements do you recommend? What do you take?
[1:32:50] And, you know, it's, it's something that I am super, super curious about.
And I have found that, like I said, over the last year and a half, two years, it's something where I find myself wanting to get interested in it in different ways.
And after finding you guys um you guys are doing so many things right that i am not going to get into this business i have no you will take Complement that's right i i absolutely you know i endorsed you guys and i um i don't want to spend two to three years going through all the headaches and everything that you had to go through to come up with these really you know stellar products so good on you good on you matt and and um and everything that you and your team have been able to achieve in the last seven years i know it hasn't been easy but man has it been worth it um you know a uh a visit to the PLANTSTRONG retreat you know followed by a a healthy dose of the PLANTSTRONG foods a little bit of Complement and you can change some lives so let's Hey, will you give me a big old virtual PLANTSTRONG fist bump on the way out?
Boom. Thanks, Matt. Thanks, Rip. Really appreciate it. Talk to you soon.
[1:34:17] I hope that you enjoyed this masterclass on the supplement industry from Matt Tullman.
Don't forget, Matt has created an exclusive offer for all of you, offering 30% off your purchase at lovecomplement.com using the code PLANTSTRONG, or you can click on the link in our show notes for today's episode.
I have my own little jar of Complement on the kitchen counter, and it's really comforting for me having a sidekick to my lifestyle that I feel really good about.
The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey.
If you like what you hear do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones you can always leave a five-star rating and review on apple podcasts or spotify and while you're there make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode as always this and every episode is dedicated to my parents Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn jr and Ann Crile Esselstyn thanks so much for listening.
