#325: Nikki Boes - Why The World Needs More Imperfect Vegans
Nikki Boes on Trolls, Snacks, and Being an Imperfect Vegan
What happens when you mix humor, authenticity, and a love for peanut butter hacks? You get Nikki Boes — a vibrant voice in the vegan community (@vegan_af_) who’s showing the world that you don’t have to be a “perfect vegan” to make an impact.
In this lively and laugh-filled conversation, Nikki opens up about:
Her personal transformation through a plant-based diet
How she handles the trolls who attack her posts
The way humor has become her secret weapon in advocating for animal welfare and health
The real-life challenges of raising daughters in a social media world
Balancing family dynamics when not everyone in the household is vegan
Not taking herself too seriously
Why the world needs more imperfect vegans
From her favorite snack combo (seaweed, pickles, and hot mustard!) to creative kitchen tips like refrigerating peanut butter upside down, Nikki proves that veganism is as fun as it is fulfilling.
Whether she’s volunteering at a dog shelter, ordering veggie-loaded pizza with no cheese, or breaking down health myths, Nikki shows us how one person can ripple out change across an entire community.
If you’ve ever thought veganism was too rigid, serious, or unattainable, this episode is for you.
Episode Resources
Watch the Episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/N-HnMxCsaWg
Follow Nikki on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vegan__af__/
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Episode Transcript via AI Transcription Service
I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
Embracing Imperfection in Veganism
[0:04] What if veganism wasn't about being perfect, but about being fun, about being real, and just a little bit irreverent? Well, that is exactly how my guest today, Nikki Boes, lives her life with all kinds of humor as her superpower, Nikki busts down this. She trolls the trolls and she keeps the vegan lifestyle super approachable. From laugh out loud posts to peanut butter hacks to raising daughters in a social media world, she brings honesty, relatability, and a healthy dose of humor.
[0:49] Something that we could all use more of today. So get ready to laugh out loud with Nikki right after these words from PLANTSTRONG.
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[2:00] I have got a doozy for you today, my PLANTSTRONG family. I want to welcome Nikki Boes, better known as at vegan underscore AF underscore on Instagram. And my producer, Carrie Barrett, is also jumping in today just so we can have some extra laughs. And I want you to know that when I first stumbled across Nikki's page, I got to admit, my first reaction was, whoa, you got to be kidding me. Should we bring her on? And then it hit me.
[2:38] Absolutely, we got to because what Nikki is doing is 100% exactly what this movement needs. We need more humor. We need more honesty. And as you're going to see, a whole lot of heart.
[2:54] So Nikki went plant-based back in 2017 after years of battling GI issues, acne and migraine headaches.
[3:04] And since then, her health has been remarkably transformed. But I think what makes her story so relatable is that she's living this lifestyle in the real world while raising kids, juggling a full-time job, and navigating a family life with a husband who's supportive but not fully plant-based himself. And here's the magic. Nikki busts the myth that vegans are joyless or angry. And I'm telling you, her Instagram is packed with so much irreverent humor that will make you laugh out loud. And the cool thing is that behind every post is a level of compassion, a certain level of education, and a deep love for animals and for people. So from clapping back at trolls to sharing all kinds of wonderful hacks to proving that pizza without cheese can still be a party.
[4:12] Nikki brings this refreshing human touch to this movement. And Carrie and I had an absolute blast riffing with her. And I know that you will too. So get ready to laugh, to learn, and to fall in love with Nikki, a.k.a. Vegan AF.
Meet Nikki Boes, the Funny Vegan
[4:36] I cannot even tell you how fired up I am right now because we're going in a direction that we usually don't go in with Nikki Boes. Nikki, welcome to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. Thank you. Thank you. You are an absolute hoot. So much so that I needed to bring the producer of the PLANTSTRONG Podcast, Carrie Barrett. Many of you know Carrie. She's sat in on a couple of my interviews. She and I have done some mini episodes together, and we've been working together for five years. Carrie actually, way back yonder, actually used to be a stand-up comic, and because Nikki...
[5:24] Serves up so much humor in her posts. She's got an amazing Instagram channel called vegan underscore AF underscore. It had me rolling around in tears the other day. And Nikki, I just, I can't even tell you how excited I am to have you on the PLANTSTRONG podcast because you go places that most people are afraid to go. You're absolutely unapologetically Nikki. You have a crazy, crazy ass sense of humor that absolutely tickles my funny bone, Carrie's funny bone. And you are, on top of it all, you are absolutely irreverent. You are irreverent and we need more Nikki's. Oh gosh, that means so much. Seriously. Thank you so much. Yeah. Yeah.
[6:19] Well, listen, so to get the ball rolling, I just want people to know that I saw on your Instagram stories today, you posted, you posted this right here. And obviously, I don't know if this is from last night, but you had, it looks like a, some sort of a vegan pizza without cheese, just vegetables on top and you're saying carbs to make me fat and veggie and veggies to flood my body with nasty oxalates and diet coke to poison my blood it's just so authentic so real you're like putting it you're pushing it back into people's faces a hundred percent and you know what's funny is.
[7:04] I've had this Instagram handle for over five years. And I always, when I first started it, I would just, I would try and produce content that I thought people wanted to see. And I wasn't really getting anywhere, but that's okay because it was just a place for my newfound veganism to land. Right. And one day I just turned the camera on myself and, And I wrote on the caption what was going through my head. And then I put it to Trending Audio. And I'm not kidding. It was like a bomb went off. Like people started flooding to my Instagram. And I was like, whoa, I never had intended to be eating on camera. I'm not super comfortable with it. But for some reason, the algorithm liked it. And all these crazy thoughts that go through my head on the daily. If I put them on the screen, people resonated with it. So that's kind of, that's kind of how stuff like that happens. You know, like, you know, you'll get people saying that carbs will make you fat. And I get it, you know, I get trolled daily.
[8:16] And so I've started poking fun at it. And I'm sure you guys have seen in my stories, I troll my trolls back. Yes, that has been a huge, like people eat that up they live for my troll stories i'm not kidding so i can never stop that series ever so give me an example of how you troll your trolls back like can you give me one it's the best it's the best so someone will leave a nasty comment on one of my instagram posts and what i'll do is i'll go to their feed and take a picture of what they look like okay and so i'll put their comma in my stories like, oh, you're, you know, you look fat or you're an ugly vegan, like they all are or something. They always say horrible things. And then the next I'll say something like funny, like, okay, you're like an inflamed, you know, carnivore, pimply carnivore living in your mom's basement. And then I'll say next story. And then it's their close up. And it's always a.
[9:20] They're always cut from the same cloth. They all look the same. So everybody loves it because, you know, we're all, a lot of people, you know, are dealing with trolls and being bullied on the internet. And so I think when I've turned it on them and given it back, people really are resonating with that. Yeah. And how do they handle it? How do some of these people handle it when you put it right back at them? I actually block them immediately because I have, you know, I have kids. I have a family. I never want to, you know, get into a war with someone crazy. I would love for some of them to see what I write about them, but it's just not worth it. Yeah. I like how you also said at one point, you're like, thank you for commenting and being, well, the words that you use, I can't say, but thank you for commenting because now I am in your algorithm. So you're going to see more of me. It is the best. It is the best. If they don't get trolled in my stories and they just leave a comment that's like, oh, my God, you're so annoying or whatever, they don't realize that they're going to continue to see my feed. It's wild. It's wild. I love it. Yeah. So, Nikki, I...
Nikki's Journey to Veganism
[10:37] I have earmarked about 20 to 25 of your posts. Okay. I would like to actually go through them. But before we do, I want to know a little bit more about Nikki and what makes Nikki tick. And obviously, you've embraced veganism. And I think for you, for all the right reasons. So let's take a trip back. Sure. Like, why did you become vegan AF? Yeah, yeah, I love it. So in 2017, it was the day after Thanksgiving. And my husband was on a surf trip. And one of my girlfriends had said, hey, have you seen the documentary? What the health? I think that it would resonate with you. And so I was bored. It was, you know, at night by myself. And I watched what the health and it hit me. like I immediately it just it clicked like literally overnight I was like oh my god why did she think it was going to resonate I mean was she trying to ruin your life or something.
[11:47] Totally I know she still gets the credit for it um but um I I think because I had had some health issues I was dealing with some health issues I was going through major migraines I was having cystic acne um i was having sinus infections to the point where my nose was completely like full of cement multiple times a year i just wasn't super healthy um but the crazy thing is is watching what the hell i know it's more about health but i resonated with the the factory farming piece um and so that's where it clicked so a lot of times people will be like are you vegan for Or did you go vegan for the animals or for your health? It's a little bit of both, but based on what the health and watching it that night and what flipped in my mind, it was for the animals. Yeah.
[12:39] Now, you have this really amazing sense of humor. Have you always had a sense of humor? And have you always loved to laugh? Yes. I was raised laughing. My husband is the funniest guy I know. So, yeah. And we just spend our lives like you'll see him. Sometimes I can get him to go on and do funny stuff. You know, he doesn't love being on my Instagram channel, but when I can get him on, he's hilarious. Well, but yeah, I love it. So let me just look to that. That's a great segue. And then I want to come back to you and your history, but a great segue to this one. So you've got a post where your husband, what's his first name? Andy. Andy, where Andy is kind of peering over your shoulder and you say.
[13:32] Hub's watching me eat my homemade beans knowing instead of netflix and chili he's getting dutch and oven oh my god you love that you go there the way that went viral i can't even tell you facial expression facial expression actually made the video the funny thing is is that popped into my head. And I'm like, honey, I'm like, will you just stand over my shoulder and just like, watch me stir these things. He had no clue what I was going to write. He thinks I'm crazy. And so when that started to go viral, he was cracking up. He's like, oh my God.
[14:11] Were you the standup comic in your class? Were you the theater girl in your high school? No, I was. No, I just, my dad was always super funny. My family was always laughing. I was a soccer player growing up. I've always been self-deprecating, like love to laugh at myself.
[14:31] But yeah, this... And I'm not super comfortable. I could never do stand-up like you did, Carrie, or anything like that. But I just kind of found a little mish, you know, like the funny things that pop through my head. Like when I try and do like voiceovers or things like that, it just doesn't feel natural. So I found the algorithm that works for me.
[14:54] And people resonate with it. And I think we've all been in this situation. All of us that are watching, all of us that are listening right now have been in a situation where you are the only plant-based or vegan person at the table or in the restaurant or at the dinner or at the corporate dinner. And all of the snarky comments that you want to say that are just barreling through your head, but you're like, just put the smile on your face and eat your veggies. Totally. And that's what cracks me up because you just throw them out there. And I do think that people think that vegans that were so serious all the time, that were just so sad and so angry and so depressed and so militant all the time. And you had a wonderful post where you say we need more non-perfect vegans out
The Reality of Family and Veganism
[15:50] there as opposed to more perfect vegans out there. We just need more non-perfect people out there. A hundred percent. We need more people just trying. Like, you know, it resonates so much lately and why I've been posting about it a lot is my family is not vegan. Yeah. And it took me a minute to admit that on camera because I felt a little, I felt a certain way about it.
[16:15] And then I just realized, I'm like, you know what? They're doing the best they can. And they've changed a lot. And I cook most of the meals and do the grocery shopping. So guess what? They're eating about 90% plants. Yeah. So you know what? My family as a whole is still doing their part. And when I start to talk about that, People are flooding my comments with, thank you. There's so much shame involved. And a lot of vegans will attack another vegan. And you'll see that on my feed a lot too. I get attacked by vegans for not being vegan enough. And I just think that that does not hurt the movement or that hurts the movement a lot. Yeah, that's really unfortunate because I think there's a lot more houses in America where people are living in a divided house, right? It's not fully vegan or plant-based, however you want to call it. And so to your point, we need a lot more imperfect vegans than we do a lot of perfect vegans. Absolutely. Yes. So you and I, I saw in your post, your story, you took a photo, you posted a photo of me and you. I think it was at Expo West. Was it this year or last year? It was this year. This year. And so I think, were you there attending as a blogger? Yes. Okay.
[17:35] So super interesting. But like, do you have a day job or is this it? I do. No, no, I've definitely got a day job. This does not pay the bills.
[17:47] So I am in the spirits industry and I'm in sales. So yeah, that keeps me very busy. This is just my passion project, really. Yeah. And I'm just trying to grow, build a community. I just started it like I told you guys in the beginning, because my my personal Instagram, I was starting to annoy like my family and friends, like because I was wanted to show everybody what I was eating and the brands I loved. And then so I just decided to start Vegan AF. And it was just a landing spot for me to show people what I was eating and the brands I loved and kind of grew from there. Well, so Nikki and Carrie. Let's go through some of your posts. We'll read the captions. And for the most part, I think the captions say it all. But Nikki, if you want to add a little color as far as like maybe what you're doing in the background. But typically, it's just your face and you're usually eating something or doing something. Yes. And the captions really say it all. So here's one where you're actually, you know, you got, and I love the way you don't mind embarrassing yourself. There's not enough people like you out there, but you're like, you're putting a huge old tofu taco up into your mouth, shoving it in there. And you can say, I can feel my soy boobies growing.
[19:12] Oh, love that. That's my favorite. And I've actually done that a couple of times and the whole myth behind the, you know, eating soy and it's more geared towards men, you know, growing, you know, man boobs or whatever. It's just so ridiculous. So I just really tried to lean into that. And I remember when I first posted that people went nuts. They thought it was hilarious. I, I told, and one post, I told the guys, I said, so all the people are the guys that are thinking, you know, that, um, the vegans are going to get breasts or large breasts. You got to go buy a bra because most soy is fed to livestock. So you're actually probably eating worse soy than we are. That is such a great point. I mean, I always say too, like when people ask me about that, I'm like, If you really, if soy and tofu really caused your boobs to grow, don't you think every woman on the planet would be chugging tofu at this point? Chugging toy milk. Yes. If that was true. A hundred percent. There would be more women on soy milk than Ozembing at this point.
[20:30] It's so true. It's like when you call out the idiocracy of some of these statements and some of these beliefs, it just it makes people go. Oh yeah like right yeah or like not eating fruit because it has sugar it's like oh.
[20:48] People are not overweight because they're eating blueberries i promise exactly right it's it's not the quinoa yeah can we get back to soy boobs perfect so um but here yeah so yes and here's the thing, just so everybody knows, that soy is loaded with phytoestrogens, which actually can regulate the hormones in our body. It doesn't cause excessive amounts of estrogen. It actually regulates that. So thank you for that wonderful post.
[21:28] Carrie, I'm going to do another one, and then I'm going to let you do one, okay? Okay, sure. So this one, oh my God, I was rolling over in, I was driving with my wife to my daughter's volleyball, first volleyball game, and I just, tears. So isn't it funny when people freak out over a little hair in their meal when they are literally eating somebody's flesh, tendons, and blood? So, oh my gosh. That one is still pushing buttons, by the way. People are still really mad at me about that, But it is if you actually think about it, I mean, it's it's a it's a hair and you're eating a dead, animal like make it make sense just eat the hair if you're gonna eat the dead animal.
[22:20] And also it's things that i wish like i put things out there that i wish someone would have said to me um before i went vegan because i just i i didn't i never looked at it like that like i would get so grossed out about hair but i was eating disgusting things like you know ham and horrible horrible you know i ate everything yeah so yeah and then and then in that vein i'll do another one and then carrie it's the sure and that is hating me is valid at least now you know that sausage is made from lips eyelids and assholes oh my gosh oh oh that's the same that isn't the same vein yes pun intended pun intended i think it's important that people know that hot dogs and sausages they grind up everything everything you know and put it in the stomach lining like that i want people to know that that's what happens and again if someone would have said it to me that way maybe i would have gone vegan sooner so yeah right now right there are a million ways to get these messages out and they're the way that you have done it I think is is a much needed like breath of fresh air in the space thank you because you do.
[23:45] Use this irreverent humor but but there's also always a piece of education in there which is which is a great way of exposing some of these myths and busting right through some of the lies that we hear.
[24:01] Now, this is something that I cannot relate to because I don't have children, but the two of you do. And I really, I, this resonated with me because I am a younger sister and I am a daughter.
[24:15] But you posted with your with one of your daughters and you said she may hear me say the F-bomb all the time, but she will never hear me say nothing tastes as good as skinny feels. And I love this message of health and well-being. And can you both really, I mean, expand on what this means to raise particularly daughters in a time like this where we are just being bombarded with fake images of what beauty should look like?
Raising Daughters in a Social Media Age
[24:54] Yeah. Do you want to go first, Rip? I'd love to hear. Well, no, no, no, no. This is me. Okay. Yeah. I just, I was actually raised, that was a Kate Moss saying. And so that was always, that's what I was raised with. Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels.
[25:11] And when you have a daughter, you realize like now she's my daughter, she's 15 years old. She's on social media. and Carrie you're so right like she is watching filtered faces all day long she's there's something called skinny talk where it's only like itty bitty girls with you know shelf booties and you know and it's all fake and it is just um a really really tough time um and so I always I know my kids will poke fun at me and call me an almond mom or an ingredient household I don't know if you guys have heard those terms no i haven't heard either one of those what does that mean okay so an almond mom is someone who like if your kid asks for a coke you're like nope drink water you don't need the calories or um you know like they want to like a twinkie or something and you say have an almond you know um or an ingredient household is you never have anything easy easily accessible you have to like put all the ingredients together to make something interesting yeah i mean you've seen my feed. I'm not crazy health conscious, but my kids think I am.
[26:24] But I just thought it was important to put it out there. I want my daughter to know, everybody is fine. You do the best you can. But the eating disorders, I have a really good friend who deals with eating disorders, especially in teens. And I want to do everything I can to avoid that, especially with my daughter. Yeah, and to that end, I do want to make it clear that if people go to your feed and we want them to... You're right. You're not just eating cucumbers and carrots, right? You are living in the real world. You travel a lot. You're family. You go out to eat. You will buy store-bought food, but you won't veganize it. You love a Diet Coke. I mean, it's like you're human living in a human world. So again, I just want to go back to that. Like the world needs more imperfect vegans than it does.
[27:21] Yeah. Perfect ones. Love it. Yeah. Yes. That's going to be our motto for today's episode for sure. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. I was gonna say just because people, you know, people associate the Esselstyn family with perfection and no one is right. Except for Essie and Ann, right? Let's, let's, let's put them on the pedestal that they are. Yes, they are. They are. They are the gold standard. But, but, but yeah, I mean, you know, Rip also has three children and lives on the road a lot. And it's going from swim meet to swim meet and pickleball practice and this and that. And so, yeah, sometimes you do have to just like, go into a restaurant and go, all right, well, what's, what side dishes do they have? What can I throw together? And that's, You have a lot of posts about that where you've walked into restaurants and you order, you know, the chicken salad or whatever. You're like, hold the meat or the carne asada, hold the carne. And you're like, shouldn't I get a rebate on this? Oh, my God. I'm so annoyed. It makes me so angry to pay for the meat dish. Yeah.
[28:31] Not have the meat. And so like, put, put an avocado on there. Give me something. If they're going to charge me full pop. And then they're going to, and then they're going to charge you two bucks for the avocado. Every time, every time. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, so you mentioned something about carrots and celery or something like that, but in one of your posts, you, you, you make a carrots and cucumbers and you say, you'll never eat carrot, carrots and cucumbers another way. Can you remember the way that you made them?
[29:05] Oh, yes. So I was following a trend and I believe I was, I shaved them with a peeler. You did. It was so good. I need to do that again. Thank you for reminding me. So you shaved them with a peeler and then did you do something with them or what did you do? Yeah. So I tossed them in like, it was like a mix. So there was like soy sauce, sesame oil, um it was a whole like chili paste it was so good thank you for reminding me i need to do that again yeah yeah yeah oh i know i saw that post and i was like because i have cucumbers in my garden right now that are ready to pick yes they're ready to harvest and i try i try and put all the recipes in my um in the verbiage in the caption as well so people get inspired that's been another thing is, you know, I get a lot of traction from people saving my stuff, um, because of the recipes. Yeah. Uh, Nikki, you have a post where you say you don't eat meat question mark who radicalized you.
[30:09] And then when you finish telling everybody what the rest of their video shows. Yeah. Wait, isn't that one with all the, is that the one with all the animals? Yes. The farm animals. Yes. Yes. Oh God. I implore people to go visit a farm. When you look a cow in the eyes and you see those big long lashes and those brown eyes and you just feel they are sentient. They feel and even the turkeys like people think turkeys are gross they will sit and cuddle you and pigs i've been obsessed with pigs forever i believe one day i will end up with a pig and my husband does not agree but i feel like a pig is in my future um as a pet yeah um we've had four in our household stop it i'm so jealous really yeah yeah oh yeah they can get a little ornery when they get older but oh my god they're so adorable when they're young so cute i love their little snouts and they're so smart they're really smart oh oh oh i need to tell a quick story and then let's come back so when i say we had four pigs this is when i was growing up with my parents okay and and uh.
[31:28] One of these baby pigs, we put it in a blanket and we went like four miles down the road to this place called the big slide. You get in these burlap bags and you go down the big slide. And our babysitter at the time was holding, the pig's name was Screwy, was holding Screwy in the blanket literally with a bottle. And the Screwy was sucking on the bottle, but you couldn't see Screwy's head because it was kind of buried under the blanket. And so a woman just went up and said, oh, let me see the cute little baby and saw the pig head and just freaked out. That is so awesome. Is that like a family story? Oh, yeah. You guys all know? Oh, yeah. The babysitter's name was Terry Hauserman and we will never forget it. Oh, God. I love that. That is hilarious. Oh, my God. Yeah. So, yeah. So, who radicalized you? Yeah. I mean, the fact- They did. Yeah, I know. The fact that we are radical because we have decided not to partake in, you know, the death and the eating of animals. Isn't it wild? Yeah. Yes. And the perception that the vegan diet is so restrictive and you had that, you know, that post.
[32:39] Yeah. It's so, it's so restrictive. And yet, yeah, now I could eat 300 vegetables, beans, lentils, peas, nuts, seeds. It's wild. Like I, when I ate meat, that's all I ate.
Humor and Truth in Veganism
[32:52] So every meal was centered around chicken or a burger or an egg. I like, there are so many things I have eaten in these, how many is it? Oh, it's almost eight years now that I've been vegan. It's crazy. It's turned me into a foodie. I didn't used to be a foodie. A lot of people love how much I love food. And my husband and son actually could not stop laughing. I forget what I was eating one day, but it was so good that I literally shed a tear. Like I cried. And they're like, they're like, you're not actually crying. I'm like, no, I really am. You know what I think it was? I think it's when I first tried nuts for cheese. You guys ever had it? I've made i've had rebel cheese but not that yeah okay, Along similar lines, but yeah, they poked fun at me for a while on that. Well, you just mentioned eggs and you have a post where you say, and it's a post where you're like cracking open a vegan egg and it's pouring out, you know, oozing out orange. And you say, imagine thinking that this vegan egg is gross while you crack open a chicken egg that came from the same hole a chicken poops from.
[34:07] Again you just call out the the truth of the matter so yeah yeah that one that one that one upset some people but no of course you know and also i've called eggs you know chicken periods multiple times and that really upsets people too um and i know it's a kind of a stretch but also there is some truth to it so yeah i mean it's it's honestly the stuff that goes through my head And I, I, I'm sorry, but it's just, I'm trying, you know, you know how many people have reached out for me and I live for these DMS, like, thank you. Like, because of one of your posts, you've helped me, you know, go vegan or start my journey. And that is worth all the troll comments in the world. So I love it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Hey, when was the last time you farted in yoga? Wait, what did I write? What was that one? You said that you have anxiety about these different things. And one of them was the last one was farting in yoga. Yeah, that was. Of course, Carrie has an eye for that. But isn't everyone scared to fart in yoga or is that just a Nikki thing? What? And it's the Nikki dial with a dog thing. Right? Well, and we eat a lot of beans. And so I tell my family, passing gas is normal. Like I'm not ever going to blame you because we do eat a lot of beans.
[35:35] Yeah. You know what? Well, I'm, I'm not going to go there, but yeah. Yeah. You show, you know, You were on Alaskan Airlines and you were showing off this really wonderful vegan, I think, meal that you got while you were on the airlines. And you also you pointed out something that I found really interesting and they were serving drinks in paper cups. Yes. And I just can't even tell you how much it steams my clams. Yes. All these airlines use plastic cups and it's like, oh, my God, where's all this plastic going? It's infuriating. Yeah. Right. So I thank you for pointing that out about a lot. I wish more airlines used paper cups. Right. I mean, paper cups. And then also, how hard is it to have that vegan option? Like, it was delicious. That vegan box, it had nuts. It had hummus. It had crackers. It had a little piece of dark chocolate. It was so good. I'm like, you did not have to be vegan to appreciate that this is a well-rounded snack or meal, you know? And it was only seven bucks. practically free these days you know yeah you um there was a post where you have a huge thing of popcorn that you're just devouring and you say you know this is my favorite vegan snack at the time i'm wondering as of late is there a favorite vegan snack that you're kind of hooked on right now.
[37:02] Oh this one is always controversial but seaweed pickles and hot mustard or it's like spicy mustard. And this has gone viral multiple times because I guess it's not a normal thing to eat. And I poked fun. I'm like my husband, I think is thinking I'm pregnant because I eat this all the time. But it's just so delicious. If you wrap a seaweed snack in a pickle and put a little dollop of mustard, it's... Heaven it's so good yeah i will share that with my daughters who cannot get enough of every one of those but they've never put them all together okay put them together my daughter was actually the one who put the combo together and now we eat it all the time together so share it with them they'll like it that's great yeah um you have a couple of little series and posts okay, randomly on your feed that are like, can one vegan make a difference? And you will sometimes call out, as you did with the airline and hotels. I have seen you when you are at ordering room service and you're like, you know.
[38:13] Insert hotel chain here, you can do better. And you invite people to tag them and some of those posts. Have you seen any change as a result of one vegan trying to make a difference? Well, you know, the interesting thing is, is my post, that pizza post was from yesterday was actually at a Marriott. And I've called Marriott out twice now, because there's no vegan options. And i travel a lot and i'm a marriott girl right and so um i gave them a compliment in the post i said you know they worked with me room service was great um so they dm'd me and they said we're so glad um that you got a good piece i'm like hey can we work together to you know create something for your menus like and so they were good they're passing me on to their food and beverage team so maybe i don't know maybe something especially because you're in that business too yes you're in the spirits and and sales and so you know what customers want and like it doesn't take much to because they had the stuff in the kitchen obviously uh-huh and that pizza let me tell you yeah it was so good it was so good and you didn't have any cheese right no cheese no even vegan cheese. You don't even need it. No, no. So you, um.
Hacks for a Better Vegan Lifestyle
[39:39] You have a really cool hack that I want you to tell the people, because this is something, again, that really steams my clams. And that is these no stir peanut butters that are loaded with hydrogenated oils, palm oil, added sugars. And it's not just peanuts or peanuts and salt. So what do you recommend? What's your hack when you get peanut butter, but it's got like a half an inch of oil at the very top. What do you do? I can't stand it when my fingers get all oily. Let me tell you, because I used to avoid buying it because I could not stand the oil dripping down the side, the peanut. It was awful. And so I think I saw it somewhere. I can't remember where it originated from. And I was like, there's no way. So I go to Costco, I buy the two pack, they've got an organic peanut butter that's literally peanuts and salt. And you know, So you literally turn it upside down, put it in your fridge overnight and pop the seal in the morning and it's perfectly incorporated.
[40:44] And people on that reel, it went viral, of course. People think I'm lying about that. And I challenge them, go try it. Go try it. Do you know why it has to be in the refrigerator and not just in the cupboard? There was a couple comments that said that they do it in the cupboard. I tried it and it still was soupy. So there's something about the chill of the refrigerator that just, I think, molds it all together. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Well, we are such a peanut butter household, especially especially my three kids that are super active and we're always trying to, you know, get them calories. So that's great. Did you try the hack? Not yet. Not yet. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it as soon as I get home. Love it. And that is the exact peanut butter that we purchased at my household. The Kirkland. Yeah, exactly. And so I dump all the oil off of it, and then I have to run it under the sink to get all the extra oil off the side of the jar. No, try this. It really is a game changer in the kitchen. I love that. Nikki, this one had me just going, I love Nikki.
[41:54] You say... I could never work in an aquarium. I'd have a penguin in my car by the end of shift. Oh, I know. You just, it's like, oh, these poor animals. I'm just, I've always been an animal lover. Through and through, I just am such an animal lover. And I just recently started volunteering at our local dog shelter. And my husband's like, I love this for you, but don't bring home a dog.
[42:24] And guess what happens? Within a week, there was one that was potentially going to be euthanized that I had a bond with and I freaked out and we were headed to Portugal. So I didn't have a plan. I freaking pulled the dog. I'm like, this dog cannot be put down. Um, so yeah, that's just the, the bleeding heart, animal loving person. I am. I've always loved animals. Well, you mentioned Portugal, but wasn't it in Portugal where you came to the realization that you could have amazing pizza without the cheese? Exactly. That's exactly. I've been eating it that way now. And, you know, I tried a lot. I mean, I do love the nuts for cheese, the wedges, but the actual like vegan mozzarella, I've been trying for years. It's not my favorite. And it makes the pizza slimy and tastes a little weird. You don't need the cheese. You don't need it. You don't need it. And you also don't need the extra calories that you're getting from that fake vegan cheese. It's 70% fat. And the second ingredient is some sort of oil. So in this way, you can have five pieces instead of three. 100%. No, I am on board with that. And that resonated with a lot of people, too, because, you know, it opens up a lot of doors. Like if you go to a pizza joint now, if they don't have a vegan cheese, still order the veggies.
[43:50] And, you know, it's delicious. I will joke and say that like we have a wonderful pizza joint down the street from where I live. And they they have a very extensive vegan menu that includes vegan meats, vegan cheeses, etc. Yeah but i joked like our pizzas always cost more because it'll be like a 70 pizza because i'm like could you put some spinach on it and there's like that's four dollars some onion that's five dollars.
[44:20] Infuriating but it's hilarious because like i don't want the meat or the tea i don't want all the fake stuff on there but somehow i end up with like a 70 pizza when i know when we go out with our friends who are not vegan and you had a funny post uh that said this may be shocking but but i'm vegan and i have friends oh yeah yeah i know totally nikki i want to throw a question out there for all of us to answer, And I'd love for Nikki to go first, but, you know, you say that you don't mind being embarrassed. So share with us one of the most embarrassing things that's ever happened to you.
[45:01] Oh, God, so many. I, um, a lot of, I do a lot of like embarrassing things at work. Um, so, okay. There's this one time where I went to New York for a huge corporate meeting, like the president of our company was there and my customer was there and it was like a top to top. And this was like the first time I had been to our corporate offices and it was in New York. And I, you know, just different than San Diego. And so we walk in and you have to check in at the front desk and so I give them my ID and the guy at the front goes um okay look at that thing and there was a little thing with a red dot and I was like oh wow this is this is crazy security and so I thought it was a retina scanner and so I put my eye up to the retina scanner and he was just trying to take a picture for my photo ID so the whole day I have to walk around with the ID that is like a close-up of my eyeball and my marketing guy I am not kidding when he saw what happened And he fell on his back in the elevator and was laughing so hard. He almost peed himself.
[46:11] That's good. Mary, how about you? Oh, gosh. Again, so many like Nikki. But the one that popped into my brain was when I was 24 years old, I took a job at a radio station in Austin, Texas. And we had this big soiree, this big gala event that we had to go to, but it was disco themed. So everybody was all up in their disco garb.
[46:40] And one of the big bosses of the company that I was working for said that they just like, and I was with all these head honchos. And they're like, oh, yeah, I graduated high school in 1970, 1973. And I said, well, I was born in 1973. And it caused such a ruckus because suddenly this guy felt like ancient and then I felt like, dumb ass because I was like why did you just insult you know why did you just make this guy feel so old but but it became it became a line that we always said whenever I was around this person which was like so when when were you when were you born when did you graduate high school so it was just embarrassing like it's it was one of those like insert foot in your mouth moments yeah and I should have just kept my mouth shut and I rarely do but it's funny but isn't it funny to laugh at afterwards right it was mortifying but yes yes it was mortifying at the time because i just thought it was cool that he said 1973 and i was like oh i was born in 1970 all right it's got to be what about you uh you know mine mine goes back to when i was 10 years old i just finished swim practice i was up in the stands.
[48:00] And for some reason, I think I had a brain fart. I thought I was in the locker room. And, you know, you wore these little Speedo swimsuits.
[48:09] And I pulled it down to my knees and then all of a sudden realized,
Embarrassing Moments and Laughter
[48:13] oh, my God, I am here in front of all these people. And here I was trying to pull up a wet bathing suit back up. And this very kind woman that was next to me threw a towel around me. And to this day i'm just mortified thinking about standing there naked in front of all these swimmers and swim parents it was all it was all my god my favorite stories ever that's awesome yes oh my god there's so many more if i had like 10 minutes to think about it i'm sure there would be a lot more but i like how one of your posts Nikki said behind every vegan is a disappointed grandma I love my family my granny's so supportive but every time I go to Iowa oh honey what can you eat she's so cute she's so worried about me yeah well and that's good like I mean this might be a serious like more serious question but yeah I go to Ohio so Rip is also from Ohio so So we all three of us are very Midwestern in our upbringing. So we all know that that is meat, potatoes. Yes. That is tradition. But I came from a very Italian household where every holiday was homemade ravioli and spaghetti. And the ravioli has meat and ricotta.
[49:34] And it's wonderful. Don't get me wrong. And I like I've been vegan now for 17 years and I still every holiday still get well can't you have just a little bit or is it gonna kill you is it gonna hurt you or can't you make exceptions so, How do you both, well, Rip, you don't have to, but Nikki, how do you deal with that? My family is pretty good now. I think they pretty much understand. Like, I'm going to Iowa for Thanksgiving, and my mom is so sweet. She's like, we're going to make a whole vegan menu, and she's making a big deal about it. So I don't get it so much from my family anymore.
[50:17] Yeah, it's more so from coworkers. and just yeah well you're becoming a celebrity i mean this is you know this is good stuff so what what also is crazy to me is how we have so normalized or habitualized, eating animals and you you even like you allude to this when you say what if i told you that i was eating dog ribs and cat thighs yes it really helps point out just the absolute, insanity that is going on where we have now normalized chicken wings and chicken thighs and and cow ribs as just you know food you guys i will tell you when i made one of my first reels eating i was eating um blackbird wings um so they're very meaty looking and i said that i was eating dog ribs.
[51:10] And I got death rinse. Like it was people were so like, just bent over that I was like, wow, nobody's ever really thought of it like that. Like they, they were so mad that I was eating dog ribs. Yeah. Amazing. The, the, the disassociation that we all have about various things like, yeah. You know, present company included in some of that, you know, just, yeah, we w it's, it's just safer for our brains and our hearts to not go there. But, but once you do and, and you realize, Oh, this isn't, this isn't that hard to change weight the, the, the thought around that. Um.
[51:53] You know, you talked about having labs done and, you know, we're joking, we're having fun, but truly you had these horrific health issues. How much have your labs changed? How much has your health changed over these, the last several years? Nine, 10 years now. I mean, it's night and day. It's honestly night and day. I can't tell you the last time I've had a migraine. I do not get sinus infections at all. The acne is pretty much cleared. But more importantly, something else was going on behind the scenes. And when I delivered my daughter, she's 15 now. So I delivered her. It was a bad situation. She was, you know, I had placenta acrita. She was a NICU baby. It was insane.
[52:45] But anyways, when I was healing, I was in a lot of pain and they did an ultrasound on me and found that my gallbladder was full of sludge. And this was when I was not vegan. But they said, we don't want to operate because you just had a really traumatic birth. It's okay. You can have a sludge in your gallbladder. So I never thought anything of it again. Well, fast forward to 2020, and I feel like I'm having a heart attack, like I'm having heartburn, like I've never had heartburn before, ever in my life. And I was having heartburn, And it was right during covid and so i'll never forget i'm like I have to go to the hospital I dealt with it for four days Finally in the middle of the night. I tell my husband I have to go to the hospital and he's like don't go You're gonna get covid. So anyways, I drive myself there And I end up my gallbladder was infected It was full of sludge and it needs to come out right away, Um, so I have emergency surgery have my gallbladder out And then while they're in there they find a cyst on my bile duct, And so I end up having to have another surgery to get that removed because that could end up being cancer. Long story short, I feel like it was all for something. You know what I mean? And I'm in a really good place and I feel good. I've got, you know, now I'm dealing with the perimenopause, so I'm on a new path. But health wise, I feel better than I felt in a long, long time.
[54:12] Were those the doctor's exact words? you you're you have sludge yes like yes like that is that is frightening i know the actual word that they used i know what's also what to me is also frightening is.
[54:30] So when i'd love to know where you were when this went through your mind because it's so apropos and that is you say whoever discovered milk was doing some messed up stuff to that cow right like how did you find out that that utter sports milk that you can drink like, and if you like i said it like if you had to suck the tea to yourself like would you No. So, I mean, I'm happy to milk an almond. That's not gross, right? Exactly. Exactly.
The Serious Side of Veganism
[55:08] How's your perimenopause journey from one... Sorry, Rip, you're done. We're done with you. The rest of this interview is going to be Carrie and Nikki talking menopause. No, I mean... Does it feel... I mean, it's weird because it basically is puberty in reverse. It's crazy. A lot of the things that we went through when we were coming of age were now coming of a different age. And so but but so do you feel that having this plant based diet is is really helping this transition? I mean, the plant based diet has just helped me overall, just in general, feel lighter and better and healthier.
[55:48] But the perimenopause has jumped and smacked me right in the face. Um so i'm really working hard i've joined at 45 i'm lifting weights four to five times a week i'm prioritizing breakfast i'm having oats every day for breakfast um which where i used to not have breakfast i'm taking creatine um and i do have an appointment to see um about getting on hrt i heard that can be a big game changer um so yeah i'm gonna battle it i'm not just gonna you know let perimenopause kicked my ass. I'm going to go for it. We had our annual Plant Stock this year and Dr. Laurie Marbas, I don't know if you've ever heard of her, but she's a great... Kind of lifestyle medicine physician. One of her specialties is perimenopause and menopause. And she gave a lecture, about a 35, 40 minute lecture on that this year. And so I would recommend too, if you need some help or if you want to seek another opinion around perimenopause, seek out Lori Marbus. She's fabulous. Okay. Laurie Marbas. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah.
[56:54] This, this, I love this. for all the trolls who hate on vegan food you are officially banned from ever eating fruit again fruit is vegan like yeah yeah it sure is right and french fries yes yes totally yes, yeah yeah your meat and cheese and eggs yeah no you had that funny post where you're eating like a beautiful salad with a side of fries and you're like anyone else anyone else right like they're like a little french fries with the side with their salad which is it's true hey look french fries it's particularly sweet potato fries have saved me on numerous occasions when i go out with friends right totally i always say i've never met a potato i didn't like any for any fashion or form i'll eat it yes that is so true yeah i have you ever done that post i've never met a potato i didn't like no but i i should i think i should yeah yeah i think we i think we both should i'm gonna do that for sure i've never got a potato i didn't like totally yeah it's true um what about um.
[58:10] You have a post and you ask people, what is the one non-vegan food that you haven't found a good vegan version of? Is there something that you've not found? Yeah, I think for a while it was cheese. Yeah, the vegan cheese was really tough. I tried that. I tried many brands, many things. And until I tried nuts for cheese or to make my own cashew based nacho cheese, which was another viral post. Yeah, cheese. Cheese has been tough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, they haven't they haven't quite figured that one out yet. And I'm OK with that. I actually prefer food without without cheese. And if when when I'm wanting something cheesy, I just use nutritional yeast or obviously you can do amazing things with cashews and and tofu. Right. For like a nice replacement for cheese in the layers of your lasagna. So good. Or mac and cheese. Rip, do all of your kids, are they all vegan?
[59:18] They are. They are very proud, PLANTSTRONG supporters. Yeah. Keep in mind, you know, I mean, this has been in my blood for a while now. You know, my father started his research in 1984. I've been doing this now for almost 40 years. My kids don't know anything else. Okay. And in fact, it is permeated throughout the whole little Esselstyn ecosystem. So all my brothers, my sister, their partners, their kids, grandkids now are all planned strong.
[59:57] Wow. Yeah. So we don't have to deal with, you know, kind of a house divided
Support and Understanding in Partnerships
[1:00:03] or any of that stuff, which is really nice. That is nice. Wow. Now your family dinners must be delicious. they're delicious and they're a lot of fun yeah they're a lot of fun yeah i love it but you've talked about how andy and probably your kids you know you can take a ribbing obviously you could take a joke but oh yeah but you've talked about how important it is that he is supportive of you even though he's you know probably 90 there um and and so talk a little bit about that partnership and how important it is for him to be supportive and for you to have to feel that yeah he's he's literally my best friend so I married like my soulmate he's my best friend's older cousin so I call him hot cousin Andy so um he you know he didn't really have a choice seven years into our marriage I watched that documentary he was on a surf trip he came home and I said watch this with me. And he's like, okay, I love it. I'm, I'm supportive. And he actually was vegetarian for, I'd say a year, maybe a year and a half. Um, so he was really supportive. Um, and his blood work turned around, everything looked good. But when you're not.
[1:01:21] Like when it's not in your core, like it got me so good. Right. Like it didn't him yet. Right. I always say yet because I, I, I feel strongly that one day my family will be vegan. Um, but it's just on their timeline, not mine. Um, but he is so supportive. He thinks, you know, my posts are hilarious. He he's like, loves it. Like, you know, there's some brands reaching out and it's crazy that, you know, what I've turned this, this little, you know, passion project into, I found a community by accident. You sure. And the other day you had, or maybe not the other day, maybe it was, I don't know, a couple months ago, but you become really good friends with Chef Bae. Oh my God. You guys have a little like dinner club that you have. It's so cool. Oh my God. She's literally 20 minutes from me. We did the dog, a foster dog day out together. We've done vegan meetups and mixers together. There's a, there's a group of us who get together and she's wonderful. I'm so inspired by her. Yeah, yeah.
[1:02:22] Well, you know, Carrie and Nikki, I think it's that time. It's kind of the bewitching hour. But this has been absolutely a blast. Nikki, what I would like to throw out there to the three of us is... Let's come back. Let's do this again in 10 months to 12 months. And we can bullet point 20 more that just really made us hurl with laughter, cry, you know, cry with laughter.
[1:02:54] And I'm sure that the PLANTSTRONG audience would love it. I love it. I would just want to know, like, in summary, like what do you want people to get from your channel and like yeah it's it's a lot it's a it's a huge undertaking as you said you're taking a ton of scary scary abuse from people yeah and um but yet but yet you like you know and yet she persisted what do you want people to know about this lifestyle? I want my Instagram to be a community and a resource. And I'm going to cheer you on if it's one plant-based meal a week, one condiment you choose.
The Future of Veganism and Community
[1:03:40] If you're not a troll, you're invited into my life, right? And I answer every DM. I am super active because I have such passion for growing this community and showing people. I was a regular mom eating the standard American diet. And I flipped overnight. It is possible.
[1:03:59] And I like to show people how and my grocery hauls, people are very invested in what I'm buying and my family, what I'm feeding them. So I'm just trying to inspire one meal at a time, you know, well, you are you are doing it lights out. Well, do you do you find that you have to stay like educated? Do you read many books? Are there any sites that you, you know, you're, you're drinking up?
[1:04:27] What do you, what do you do in state current? Um, or, or, or nothing just kind of blazing your own little, little trail. I know this is really sad, but I follow a lot of Instagram doctors, but I mean, I, you know what? I, I get my annual checkups and my labs look good and I go by the way I feel and the family, everybody's healthy and you know, I don't, I don't try and be too crazy about it, you know? Yeah. Um, so yeah, I feel like we've all, we're, you know, got a good head on our shoulders about it. And yeah, yeah, you just the lesson I'm taking away is just we all have to just sort of step back and stop taking ourselves so seriously. Yes. And and go into this with a fun, adventurous, humorous attitude.
[1:05:17] And then you want to stick with it because it truly it's it's hilarious. Some of the things that we can and such, you know, that we could say that we don't want to. But like, but yeah, I think that's my takeaway from visiting your site is that, you know, I eat, sleep and breathe plant-based nutrition and I'm in the weeds all day long as is rib. And so it's just funny to step back and, you know, to visit a site like yours that's new, new-ish and go, oh, that's really, yeah. I love it. I want to make one more comment, and this will probably be the last one. And that is, Nikki, you someplace in one of your posts, you mentioned how.
[1:06:06] There's these people that go, you know, raw plant-based or plant-based or whatever. And then they, they give it up and you basically say you were never vegan because once you're vegan, you're always vegan. If you're doing it for the reasons, let's just say the right reasons that you're doing it for. Yes. Can you expand on that? Your, your headspace there? Yeah, I think I did that post after Lizzo went, um, she gave up her veganism and it really upset me because it's kind of a trend. Like Miley Cyrus, there's a bunch of celebrities and food bloggers who are going backwards on it. Um, and so I, I really truly in my heart feel like if you are vegan for the animals, then you never going to turn your back on them. And you're never going to say, Oh, I'm not getting enough protein. I need to go have chicken breasts. Um, that's just my opinion. And it really upset some people, but more people were like, hell yeah. And a lot of people are upset by these people publicly saying, Nope, veganism make me, made me sick. I needed some protein or, you know, whatever. Um, I mean, go, go to a nutritionist, a nutritionist, like figure it Wow. Yeah. Right. Well, you know what? You know, my father, my father has a saying and he says.
[1:07:27] Inappropriate application of the method is no reason for its abandonment. And so many people, I think to just, unfortunately they're, they're, they're not, they're not doing it right. And doing it right. Isn't that hard? That's the crazy thing. But, but I just think, yeah. And then the other thing is, it's like you mentioned the animals, but like, who doesn't want to be, part of a movement where we embrace nonviolence, where we embrace being amazing stewards of the planet, where we embrace and celebrate our health and compassion. So it's just...
Closing Thoughts: The Importance of Laughter
[1:08:07] I so appreciate you being vegan AF. Thank you. Oh my God. This has seriously been a dream come true. I love it. By the way, this was my first podcast. No. Yes. Well, get ready. Get ready. First one, man. Yes. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for having me. So, Carrie, you know, we always end with the PLANTSTRONG fist bump. Can you give me a fist bump? Oh, I love that. along, Nikki. Boom, boom, boom. All right. Go, Nikki Bo. Go, go, go. Vegan AF. Thank you.
[1:08:48] So many great takeaways bubbled up for me today from this episode with Nikki. But I think the one that stands out the most loud and clear is that the world needs more imperfect vegans, right? We need more people willing to lean into plants for our health, for the animals, and for this planet that we call home. and no, perfection is not required. In fact, we should stop seeking it. And here at PLANTSTRONG, I want you to know that we 100% support you wherever you happen to be on your journey. I think another big takeaway for me is don't be afraid to laugh, especially in this chaotic world that we're living in right now. Nikki reminds us not to take ourselves too seriously.
[1:09:45] And every small step, every meal, every choice, it matters. And together, those ripples of change, they add up to something extraordinary. So let's leave with light. Don't be afraid to laugh at yourself and with others. And let's always remember to always, always keep it plant-strong, but not plant-perfect.
