#222: Join our Type 2 Diabetes Revolution - with Jose Tejero and Diana Licalzi
Diana Licalzi, MS, RD, CDCES and Jose Tejero, authors of The Type 2 Diabetes Revolution
A few statistics: Currently there are 37 million people in the United States with diabetes and another 96 million Americans who are currently pre-diabetic - and the vast majority of those people aren’t even aware of it. About 70% of those cases of pre-diabetes will turn into diabetes unless the progression of the disease has stopped.
Unfortunately, the U.S. healthcare system isn’t designed to prevent and reverse until it’s too late, and THIS is the impetus for today’s discussion.
We’re in need of a Type 2 Diabetes Revolution and leading that charge are the authors who wrote the book with the same title- Jose Tejero and Diana Licalzi, MS, RD, CDES.
As you’ll hear today, Diana, a Registered Dietitian and Certified Diabetes Care and Education Specialist, along with Exercise Physiologist, Jose Tejero, want to help you achieve non-diabetic blood sugar levels while enjoying carbohydrates (yes, carbs), along with copious amounts of other delicious, plant foods.
Their book and philosophy focus on the reversal of insulin resistance - which is the root cause of high blood sugar and their approach and meal plans have successfully helped individuals reduce their A1c and fasting blood sugar, lower their need for medications, and gain a deep understanding of health and nutrition.
Even if you don’t have high blood sugar, prediabetes, or type 2 diabetes, perhaps you have a loved one who does and may find it useful for the deep information dive and decadent recipes. We owe it to ourselves and our society to join this revolution together.
Episode Highlights
0:04:04 Pre-diabetes and Type 2 Diabetes Statistics
0:07:49 High Blood Sugar's Impact on Various Organs and Limbs
0:13:05 Jose and Diana’s Introduction and Experience in Diabetes and Nutrition
0:23:09 Type 2 Diabetes and Lifestyle Factors
0:32:38 Patient Testimonial: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes with Plant-Based Diet
0:42:34 Misconceptions about the Ketogenic Diet and Type 2 Diabetes
0:48:29 The Four-Week Meal Plan and Minimizing Food Waste
0:51:51 Recipes and Discussion of Key Meals and Ingredients
1:09:01 Indulgent yet Healthy Dessert Options
1:11:56 Minimizing Oils in Diet
The Type 2 Diabetes Revolution book is available now!
About the Authors
Diana Licalzi, MS, RD, CDCES, is a nationally-recognized Registered Dietitian and Certified Diabetes Care & Education Specialist and holds her Master's in Nutrition Science & Policy. In 2019, Diana co-founded Reversing T2D, a digital health platform that helps individuals reverse, manage, and prevent pre- and type 2 diabetes. Reversing T2D uses an integrative approach to tackle diabetes focusing on plant-based nutrition, exercise, and mindset. Diana's previous books include Drinking for Two and Mocktail Party.
Jose Tejero is an exercise physiologist with a degree in Exercise Science and is the co-founder of Reversing T2D. He has worked alongside nutrition experts and plant-based physicians who treat chronic illnesses, including type 2 diabetes. He observed the positive impact that plant-based diets had on the health of their patients and decided that he would dedicate his career to promoting the benefits of this diet. Jose is passionate about guiding people on the path of developing a healthy lifestyle.
Episode Resources
Visit the Type 2 Diabetes Revolution website
Order The Type 2 Diabetes Revolution Book
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Full Transcript via AI Transcription Service
I'm Rip Esselstyn and welcome to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
The mission at PLANTSTRONG is to further the advancement of all things within the plant -based movement.
We advocate for the scientifically proven benefits of plant -based living and envision a world that universally understands, promotes, and prescribes plants as a solution to empowering your health, enhancing your performance, restoring the environment, and becoming better guardians to the animals we share this planet with.
We welcome you wherever you are on your PLANTSTRONG journey, and I hope that you enjoy the show.
[0:41] If you have prediabetes or type 2 diabetes, then this episode is definitely for you.
We We currently have 37 million Americans that are living with type 2 diabetes.
That is 11 % of the population.
But this episode isn't just for you. Did you know that a staggering 96 million Americans are walking around unknowingly with prediabetes or type 2 diabetes?
We are in need of a type 2 diabetes revolution and leading the charge are the authors who wrote the book by the same name, Jose Tejero and Diana Licalzi.
.
As you're gonna hear about today, Diana, who is a registered dietician and certified diabetes care and education specialist, along with Jose, an exercise physiologist, are here to help you achieve non -diabetic blood sugar levels while enjoying carbohydrates.
Yes, I said carbohydrates, along with copious amounts of other delicious whole plant -based foods.
The simple lifestyle changes that Diana and Jose espouse focus on the reversal of insulin resistance, which is the root cause of high blood sugar.
[2:07] Their new book, The Type 2 Diabetes Revolution, just came out on November 7th, And here to discuss it with me are Diana and Jose.
So get ready, my cruciferous cousins. A revolution is afoot.
A type 2 diabetes revolution.
[2:28] All right, Jose and Diana, welcome you two to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
This is your first time. You guys are PLANTSTRONG Podcast virgins.
We are, we are. Thank you for having us, Rip. It's truly an honor to be here.
Well, it's an honor to have you guys, especially in light of the fact that you guys have just come out with this new book. Here she blows right here.
The Type 2 Diabetes Revolution, and boy, do we ever need a revolution around diabetes.
And you guys are quite the experts.
So, congrats on that.
You know, I want to dive into a lot of the specifics that you guys have in the book, but before we do, I'd like to take a 10 ,000 -foot view here, Because your dedication to this book is basically to the millions of people that are struggling with pre and type 2 diabetes.
And right now, there's no doubt, this is a major scourge on this society, and frankly, the world right now.
[3:37] And so, I mean, let's just jump right in.
Tell me, Diana and Jose, what do the numbers look like? How many people have pre -diabetes or type 2 diabetes?
And what are some of the things that happen with this disease?
Yeah, so currently there are 37 million people with diabetes in the United States.
So that's about 11 % of the US population.
Pre-diabetes and Type 2 Diabetes Statistics
[4:04] And of those 37 million, 90 to 95 % have type 2 diabetes.
So the majority has been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes or not diagnosed.
So a lot of people actually don't even know they have it I believe it's one in five people who have diabetes haven't been diagnosed and then another, 96 million adults in the United States have pre -diabetes and if nothing is done to, Reverse pre -diabetes or stop it in its tracks It may develop to type 2 diabetes and I believe it's roughly about 70 % of all cases of pre -diabetes will turn to type 2 diabetes So it's a pretty big problem that we're dealing with Yeah, I'd say so.
[4:48] And you also write that there's roughly 96 million Americans that are pre -diabetic, 96.
And you know, the population of this country is what, 350, 360 million.
But you also say that of those 96 million, and this number absolutely blows my mind, 80 % don't know that they're pre -diabetic or type 2 diabetic.
I mean, how can that be the case?
[5:18] That is the scary part, honestly. One of the reasons is because diabetes is a really silent condition.
So a lot of the symptoms don't really manifest themselves until you have full -blown type 2 diabetes.
And in our society, our healthcare system, we don't really practice preventative measures, right?
You're not really tested for type 2 diabetes unless you have one of the risk factors or unless you're over the age of 45.
So unless you're getting your blood sugar tested that are your A1C tested.
A lot of people just don't know where they stand when it comes to type 2 diabetes.
Got it. So Jose, tell me a little bit about like some of the.
[6:01] Like right now in this country, for example, it's the eighth leading cause of death.
What about kidney failure? What about blindness? What about amputation of limbs?
What's the story with those things?
Yeah, so Rip, here's the thing. people don't die of type 2 diabetes.
People die of the complications of living with high blood sugar for too long.
When our blood sugar is elevated, it damages literally every single organ of our body.
When we carry toxic amounts of blood that touches literally all of our cells, every single cell is getting damaged.
And that is why people are dying of heart disease, of kidney failure.
They are losing their vision, they are experiencing neuropathy, which is damage of your nervous system.
And that is what is truly scary, that the complications is what is leading to the deaths in this country.
And so everything you just described there, the eyesight, blindness, kidney failure.
[7:07] You know, amputation of lower extremities, Are these all little vessels that just get problematic?
For the most part. So like I mentioned, your blood is touching every cell of our body.
Our blood is touching our nervous system as well. And high amounts of blood, so sorry, high amounts of glucose in your blood is what is toxic to the nerve endings.
And the nerve endings are very delicate in our eyes, in our nephrons, in our kidneys, in our nervous system, in our extremities, like our hands and feet and that is why type 2 diabetes is one of the leading causes of amputations of fingers, toes and actually full limbs.
High Blood Sugar's Impact on Various Organs and Limbs
[7:49] Got it. Now, all right, good. So that to me is kind of like the 10 ,000 foot view.
Now Diana and Jose, why should we listen to you guys?
Like tell me a little bit about each one of you and your credentials and how long have you've been trying to master pre and type 2 diabetes?
[8:11] That's a great question. So I can start my journey with type two diabetes really started from the beginning from as soon as I became a dietitian.
So I'm a registered dietitian and a certified diabetes care and education specialist.
And type two diabetes runs in my family. My mom is Puerto Rican and it runs on the my mom's side of the family.
I've seen many of my family members struggle with type two diabetes.
My grandfather passed away from diabetes complications. So it's something that I knew from the start, I wanted to really focus on helping people with type 2 diabetes, especially because nutrition plays such a big role in not only the development of type 2 diabetes, but also in the prevention of it and in the treatment of it.
And so as a dietitian, I have this unique role where I can actually make a difference in helping people make those lifestyle changes.
[9:01] And so I worked in different healthcare settings. I worked in inpatient.
I worked in outpatient and I just grew very Frustrated with the proper with the care and education given to this patient population and just to give you an example I worked at a community hospital in Boston And I was only able to see my patients for about 20 to 30 minutes every three to four months, And when yeah Yeah, of course we had an initial session which was a little bit longer, like 45 minutes to an hour, but then trying to help someone make lifestyle changes when you only get to see them for 20 minutes every three months is really hard to do.
And we're dealing with a life -threatening condition. Type 2 diabetes, as we just talked about, is life -threatening.
[9:53] And I was just, I grew really frustrated with this, with the healthcare system and I decided to kind of leave. I learned a lot.
It was a really great experience working with other dieticians, other diabetes care educators, but I decided to start my own private practice.
And so I could really dedicate more time to working with this patient population.
And so I did that, but I still kind of grew. I was still a little frustrated with private practice because, I mean, we just talked about the numbers of how prevalent diabetes is and doing one -on -one sessions, I just felt like I wasn't making that much of an impact.
And while I still do love doing one -on -one, I just wanted to do more.
I knew I needed to do more.
And that actually led me to social media. And I started posting and educating.
What year are we talking about here?
Okay, so we are talking about, I would say, 2017.
Okay. Yeah, so I started, That's when I started getting more experience, or maybe 2018 is when I really started posting, yeah.
[10:59] And started posting some stuff on social media and I really liked that avenue.
And that's actually how I met Jose. And he was doing something very similar.
We both were educating about diabetes and we both were using a plant -based diet as our foundation of helping people make lifestyle changes.
So we instantly just clicked right off the... And let me ask you this, what led you to a whole food plant -based diet as kind of the solution here to mitigating type 2 diabetes?
Yeah, so I, as a dietitian, I definitely was exposed to the research behind plant -based diets.
So I... Really? So that truly is something that they taught you in schooling?
It depends, right? It depends what school you go to. It depends on the curriculum.
My schooling, it did. I went to Tufts University for my master's in nutrition science, and they do a really good job exploring all the different research.
And then through my dietetic internship, which was at UC San Diego Health, I also learned a lot about it there as well.
And so I was definitely exposed to it, but it did take some of my own digging as well to really see the benefits for diabetes specifically when it comes to plant -based nutrition.
[12:25] And that's how, and then I just doing it myself too. Like I adopted a plant -based diet and I saw the results for myself.
I does run in my family. so I really wanted to prevent diabetes myself.
And I do think, based off of the research, it's one of the most powerful ways to prevent it.
And so, that has led me to do it. And it's helped me maintain very healthy glucose levels.
Wonderful. So, I'm going to get to you, Jose, in just a sec.
But Diana, before we go to Jose, let me ask you, if you don't mind me, how old are you?
I'm 34. 34. All right. You are still a wonderful spring chicken. That's great.
Introduction and Experience in Diabetes and Nutrition
[13:05] Thank you. All right. Jose, how old are you? And why should we be listening to anything that you have to say?
I am 32 born in 1991. I have experience in the type two diabetes world and plant based nutrition for the last eight years or so.
So let me go ahead and take back to the very beginning.
I am an exercise physiologist with a degree in exercise science from the University of Maryland.
And right after graduation, I needed to get some exposure to the medical field.
So I ended up working for this two physicians that practice lifestyle medicine.
They were two doctors that were plant based and they placed an emphasis on plant based whole foods for the prevention and reversal of metabolic conditions like type 2 diabetes, like high cholesterol, hypertension, non alcoholic fatty liver disease, you name it.
So that was my first exposure to type 2 diabetes, and to how lifestyle change.
More importantly, a plant based whole food diet can have an effect on the prevention and reversal of this condition.
Now, let me tell you, on a typical week, in this practice, we were seeing about a hundred patients and 50 to 60 % of them had some kind of metabolic condition, some kind of metabolic ailment, which is right in line with the, with the statistics that we were mentioning earlier today.
[14:33] So, so, so for our listeners, what, when you say some sort of a metabolic disorder, what exactly are some examples?
We're talking about obesity. We're talking about high blood glucose, prediabetes, type two diabetes. we're talking about high cholesterol, hypertension, elevated liver enzymes, which is an indication of fatty liver disease.
Those are the main five, which all stem from insulin resistance.
By reversing insulin resistance, most of the time you take care of those conditions simultaneously.
So that was my first exposure to seeing all of these conditions being truly reversed with a plant -based whole food diet.
Out of this 100 patients, 50, 60 of them had some form or multiple of them.
So it's comorbidities that, again, they stem from insulin resistance.
And that is a reason why most people present to a clinic with one or two or three or all of those metabolic conditions.
[15:27] But these doctors, when they were diagnosing somebody with type two diabetes, instead of, relying on medications right away, they gave them the choice of following a plant -based whole food diet to try it out first and then to come back in three months to see how they did.
So I saw two main groups of patients.
I saw the ones that actually followed the recommendations and those people would come back three months later, they would get their blood work redone and their A1c would be back to normal or very close back to normal.
Their cholesterol levels, back to normal range, liver enzymes back to normal range, hypertension gone.
So at that moment, I was mind blown about what I was seeing every single day in this practice.
But unfortunately, I was also exposed to the other side of the picture, the patients that didn't really follow this approach, not because they didn't want to, I mean, who doesn't want to get better, but probably they didn't have a support system or a plan of action.
So those group of people that wouldn't follow the approach, they would come back three months later, get blood work redone, and things would be the same or even worse.
And it's at that point that the doctors had no other choice than to put them on medications.
[16:45] And it's a sad moment because most of the time that starts the downward spiral of prescription medications.
So it's at that moment that I had a ha moment, or a light bulb moment, and I decided to put the solution out there in front of people's faces.
So I turned to social media and by then I was already eating more plant -based whole foods clearly because I was seeing the the changes that people were were clearly having after being on this diet, so I started posting my meals and, And I started posting exercise routines on Instagram and back in the day.
That was 2017 2018 You were getting a thousand followers every single week so the the account started growing very very fast and again, that is how I met Diana and.
[17:33] And one day we were like, hey, we're basically doing the same thing, but you're doing the nutrition side of things. You're a dietician.
I am an exercise sociologist.
And that is a type of knowledge that can help people reverse metabolic condition. So let's join forces.
And we call ourselves now the dynamic duo of type 2 diabetes.
[17:52] We joined forces back then. And the rest is history, like five, six years have gone by. we now have a program that has helped over 1500 people improve their blood glucose levels.
And just last year, we were given the opportunity to write a book, The Type 2 Diabetes Revolution, to hopefully reach millions of people now with this message. Right.
And Jose, where are you originally from? Are you Peruvian?
I'm Peruvian. Yes, I was born in Lima, Peru, lived there 16 years of my life.
Wow. Good old Lima. So my wife and I, for our honeymoon, we flew into Lima.
We went to Cusco and then we hiked the the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu. Beautiful.
Well, it's good for you for your honeymoon or you just did it, period.
Not my honeymoon, but after graduating from college with my cousins.
Right, right. Beautiful. It was really, I mean, it is like the eighth wonder of the world there, Machu Picchu. Incredible.
Yeah, I was just there last year. Beautiful country. I mean, I'm proud to be Peruvian, let me tell you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And how is it, you have a cat named Gigi, right, Jose?
[19:03] Wow, the word got around. I do have a cat named Gigi.
Our dear friend, mutual friend, Adam Sutt I stayed at my place a couple of weekends ago and he met Gigi, he met Momo, my dog.
So we had a good time. That's wonderful.
So let's get back to diabetes. I want you guys to educate myself and this audience on kind of the diabetes diagnostic criteria starting with diabetes.
Like what is full -blown diabetes? What's pre -diabetes? What's normal as far as levels when it comes to a1c a fasting glucose and then an oral glucose?
Tolerance test which One of you are both of you run through those numbers for us.
So Let me just go ahead and explain a little bit better What is diabetes as a whole and then they're going into it into the ranges?
I feel like it's gonna make a little bit more sense that way so Diabetes is an umbrella term to describe elevated, chronically elevated blood sugar levels.
But within that umbrella of diabetes, you have different forms of diabetes.
You have type one, type 1 .5, gestational diabetes, then you have pre -diabetes, type two diabetes, nowadays type three diabetes, which is Alzheimer's disease. Now, type one and 1 .5.
I'm gonna stop you here. You just said something that I think is fascinating.
[20:31] You know, I mean, get it, type 1, 1 .5, gestational, type 2.
And then you said type 3, Alzheimer's.
I mean, so is that, do we know now, like, that type 3 kind of is associated with dementia and Alzheimer's?
There's no official definition right now. This is a term that has been recently coined.
So it's insulin resistance of the brain, which leads to dementia, Alzheimer's disease, and so on.
But it stems from insulin resistance. At least there are some connections right now, but the research is very early on that.
Okay, good. All right Go forward. Thank you. All right so type 1 type 1 .5 those are autoimmune forms of diabetes that basically means that, Your immune system is attacking the beta cells that produce insulin in your pancreas and over time you lose insulin production So with a lack of insulin your blood sugar levels rise Okay, then you have prediabetes and type 2 diabetes, which are the lifestyle forms of diabetes.
Now, prediabetes and type 2 diabetes are just medical terms to determine at what range your blood glucose is falling.
And I'll let Diana dive into those ranges.
[21:42] But the root cause of those lifestyle conditions is insulin resistance.
And insulin resistance is when your cells basically become blind to the signals of insulin. and they stop responding to this hormone that opens the door of the cells for glucose to go in.
And what research has been showing is that insulin resistance develop when we're eating an overconsumption of calories, mostly from saturated fats, from refined carbohydrates.
[22:10] From hyperpalatable foods that lead to this positive caloric balance in our bodies.
Then we're putting weight in our fat cells that then spills over to our muscle cells and our liver cells, and that is when we encounter something called intrahepatocellular lipids, which basically means lipids that are deposited in our liver cells, and we have intramyocellular lipids, which are lipids that are deposited in our muscle cells.
And our muscle and liver are not, they don't contain cells that are meant to store great quantities of fat, and that is when this insulin disruption starts at a cellular level, and that is the root cause of type 2 diabetes.
So that is basically how it works.
And so when you say that the muscle and the liver cells are not meant to store basically excessive amounts of fat.
Type 2 Diabetes and Lifestyle Factors
[23:09] Is it, are different people more susceptible to type 2 diabetes, or is it purely a...
Lifestyle -created disease kind of based on our own making?
So the root cause is our lifestyles, but there is different susceptibility depending on your ethnicity.
And there's a theory of something called our fat thresholds, our personal fat thresholds.
And for example, Caucasians can put a lot of weight without really experiencing insulin resistance until they are fairly big, until there's a lot of fat deposition, as opposed to people from Asian descent who have a lower fat threshold and they become insulin resistant without really putting that much weight.
And why do you think that is?
I really think it's just evolution. It's the way that it has played out over many thousands of years and we have ended up like this.
But again, it is, the root cause is insulin resistant and it's our lifestyle that we're living in any type of the world, any part of the world that is westernized, where we're eating too many calories and not spending enough calories, we're becoming sedentary, we're not spending them to exercise, that is when this metabolic dysfunction starts happening.
So you think that Caucasians have kind of been.
[24:35] Because we've been eating maybe more calorie -rich foods for a longer period of time, evolution has allowed us to become I'm a little bit more tolerant of all the fat.
That that is a a very good question and I will have to like dive into more research about that, but there is uh evolutionary.
[24:57] Science and many books out there that basically describe that we have our through our evolution We are wired to like foods that are very high in calorie density very high in fat, for example And back in the day it used to serve us because maybe we were not going to eat for a week between like Hunting animals and hunting animals, right?
And nowadays we have an over Surplus of calories, you know in our diets and our environment I can go down the street and I see Arby's I see McDonald's I see all of this Calories for a dollar, right?
Yeah problem that we're finding ourselves now a day nowadays Dan do you do you want to jump into the the diagnostic criteria or feel free to go wherever you want?
I'll just expand a little bit on that too because there are other risk factors that do Increase your risk for type 2 diabetes and one of them health to talk about was excess body fat Especially in that abdominal area that is a that is the strongest risk factor for type 2 diabetes And having excess body fat will always cause some degree of insulin resistance, And then of course having pre -diabetes puts you at a greater risk for type 2 just age alone So just being 45 years of age or older also puts you at a greater risk And then there is that genetic component like we were talking about having an immediate family member.
[26:20] Like a parent or a sibling also does put you at a greater risk and we still aren't sure we know that there's a genetic component but the research is not clear as to what why that is and what that is, but as the there's a famous quote, which, Which genetic loads the gun lifestyle pose pose a chair?
Well, a lot of there may be that genetic component, but lifestyle is really what's gonna.
[26:45] Maybe it's gonna really cause the type two diabetes from developing.
[26:50] What is it about as we age, like why if you're over 45, what is it about as we age that makes us more susceptible?
Muscle loss and Jose I'll let him talk about this as he really likes to dive into the muscle and exercise portion of it.
Okay, okay. Yeah, so truly after 45, we are losing muscle mass, But we don't have to as long as you are performing some kind of resistance training past the age of 45 You are basically becoming foolproof to type 2 diabetes and to insulin resistance But the large majority of our society is it's not exercising not even at the age of 20 So that is why we're becoming insulin resistant at at younger and younger ages But as you as you age you lose muscle mass at a faster rate There's not that high amounts of muscle synthesis as we become older and muscle is is one of the primary tools that our body needs in order to absorb glucose from the bloodstream and To put it into the muscle cell and use it as energy So if we don't have enough of it, then quote unquote our suctioning power of our muscle vacuum doesn't really work as well Wow, you know Jose and Diana I read something recently from the Kaiser Institute, it was a study they did showing the average adolescent in this country these days spend seven and a half hours on a screen every day and seven and a half minutes doing some sort of movement.
[28:20] So that's, I mean, that's like atrocious. It is. It's so sad. Yeah.
And yeah, and if nothing is done to strengthen that muscle, the muscle loss or replace that muscle loss and it usually is replaced by excess body fat, which as we know now is a very strong risk factor for type two diabetes.
And just to answer that question from before, if nothing is done to reverse insulin resistance and blood sugars continue to rise, then it is categorized as pre -diabetes than type two diabetes.
And just to give you some numbers, for A1C, pre -diabetes diagnosis is a 5 .7 to 6 .4%.
And then for type 2 diagnosis, it's 6 .5 % or above.
And for fasting, pre -diabetes is 100 to 125 milligrams per deciliter, and then diabetes is 126 milligram per deciliter or above.
And then the oral glucose tolerance test is, or the glucose tolerance test is 140 to 199 for pre -diabetes and then 200 or above for type 2 diabetes.
And what exactly is an oral glucose tolerance test?
[29:33] Yes, I had to do one recently for gestational diabetes when I was pregnant, and it is not fun, but you basically drink a solution of glucose or yeah, it's a glucose solution dextrose solution that you drink and You basically are tested for your blood sugar, One hour after is every different clinics do it differently Mine was one hour after and then two hours after to see how your blood sugar responds to such a large a solution of basically simple sugar.
And then what's what how like give me an an idea how how large of a solution are they giving you?
Oh man it's I mean I forget exactly how many milliliters but it was a bottle like a little a bottle a mini bottle of.
But do you know do you know how many grams of sugar you were taking in? Is it like 50 or 100?
200? The standard is It's usually 75 for an oral glucose tolerance test.
So 75 grams, so that is the equivalent of almost maybe 17, 18 teaspoons of sugar.
Yes, or to put it better, two Coca -Colas, regular Cokes are going to contain 70 grams of sugar. Yeah, exactly.
[30:47] Okay, and then, so thank you for going through those numbers but so what designates normal numbers Diana.
Yeah. So normal for A1C is going to be a below 5 .7%. For fasting blood sugar, it's going to be 99 milligrams per deciliter or below, and then 140 milligrams or below for the glucose tolerance test. Got it.
And then what's like on the A1C, what's the highest that you guys have ever seen on an A1C?
[31:20] Personally, I have seen it as high as 17 and this was back when I was working with these two doctors and Quick story here that that lady was from Latin American descent.
She came to the practice got diagnosed with type 2 diabetes 17 % a1c so she was scared the most scared that I've seen somebody she was crying and since we both spoke Both of us spoke Spanish I had to teach her how to follow this plant -based whole food approach very correctly every single day and And she came back three months later, and her A1C was about 9 .0.
So she was extremely grateful. She continued doing this plant -based approach, came back three months later, and she was off medications, A1C back to normal.
Wow. That's phenomenal. You know, the mayor of New York, Eric Adams, had some really awful, awful type 2 diabetes that was ravaging him.
His A1C got as high as almost, I think it was 14 .5, and he was able to get his down within, I think, three months below 5 .7, just by following what you guys are prescribing here today.
Sarah's Testimonial: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes with Plant-Based Diet
[32:38] Okay, so in the very beginning of the book, you tell the story of a woman named Sarah, Just to kind of give an idea of a testimonial.
Can you guys remember that story at all? Can you share that?
Yeah. So we did change all the names of our... To protect the guilty, yes.
Yes, we want to protect people. I mean, we could definitely talk about a lot of different stories.
We've had so many amazing case studies that we've been able to now share with people.
One of them in particular I talk about, she was trying to get an immigration visa approved and her doctor wouldn't give her the okay from the health standpoint.
And he said, you have type two diabetes, you need to get your A1C under control before I approve this.
And so she had basically 12 weeks.
The doctor gave her 12 weeks and she found our program, did our program and was able to drop her A1C. I believe it was like in the 10 % to 5 .5%.
And she also dropped a lot of weight in the process too. She got her fasting blood sugars levels down.
She went back to her doctor and her doctor was shocked.
Just could not believe it. Was just like, what did you do? What are these numbers?
[33:59] And she told him and he's like, you know what? Continue what you're doing. It's clearly working.
This is something you should do for the rest of your life. And she got her MISA approved and she's still continuing this lifestyle, this dietary pattern.
Yeah, love to hearing stories like that.
So, in your guys' opinion, type 2 diabetes because is it is it would you say it's fair to say that you what you guys really specialize in is pre and type 2 diabetes?
Correct. Okay, is this something that can be reversed? Do you just place it into remission?
[34:35] What's the correct terminology? Yeah, that's that's a great question because recently I believe it was maybe two years ago that the different diabetes associations kind of came together and create and came up with a consensus about the proper terminology and they said the proper way to call it Is to place diabetes into remission type 2 diabetes into remission.
So that is the proper terminology however, we do believe that you can reverse type 2 that we the root cause which is insulin resistance and a lot of our, Patients a lot of members who go through our program believe they can fully reverse type 2 diabetes.
Although the terminology is placed into remission, they will tell us like, I've reversed my diabetes.
Like I no longer have diabetic numbers anymore.
My blood levels are in the normal range and I don't take any medication.
So what else would you call it? Right? Like, right.
[35:32] Let me ask you guys. Yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say, Rip, here's the thing.
This people that at some point were diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, they're able to eat carbohydrates again, the healthy kind, the whole complex carbohydrates without seeing crazy blood glucose fluctuations.
So one, they're able to reduce their A1c to non -diabetic levels.
They are controlling with no medications.
Their fasting blood glucose is back to normal and they have restored glucose tolerance.
What is this? This is, I mean, it's true reversal of a condition, but if we want to go ahead and be correct, remission of type 2 diabetes.
[36:06] Do you think there's a difference in somebody's mindset when you say, hey, we're gonna put this into remission or we're gonna reverse this, or we're gonna treat this?
I had Dr. Campbell on the podcast.
I've had him on a couple of times and he's like, basically, no, what we're doing is we're treating these diseases.
We're treating the causation of these diseases.
He really was adamant that we use that term, treat.
[36:34] And so, it kind of irks me that, okay, you're putting it into the garage for just a little bit, but we never know when it might pop back out and spring up in your body.
And the terminology or the consensus that they came up with is that remission means when your A1C is below a 6 .5 % for at least three months without medication.
So, 6 .5%, below 6 .5%, you're still, you still may be dealing with pre -diabetes.
So I think reversal or treatment, it takes it one step further where you're achieving normal blood sugar levels without diabetes medications. Right.
Well, you guys, let's talk about some of the institutions, if you can rattle some off the top of your head, that are now recommending a whole food plant -based diet for people that have pre or type 2 diabetes.
Yeah, so, I mean, the American Diabetes Association now recognizes that a plant -based dietary pattern is an effective way to treat type 2 diabetes.
[37:39] The American Heart Association, in their 2020 guidelines, they did say, I believe it was their 2020 guidelines, they did recommend people consume mostly plant -based proteins.
And again, like, if you have type 2 diabetes, you're at a much greater risk for heart complications. so that is very important.
[38:00] I mean, the Canadian Diabetes Association has released a statement saying that they fully support this plant -based dietary pattern for type 2 diabetes.
The American Association of Clinical Endocrinology actually encourages their clinicians to recommend a primarily plant -based diet.
And explain to me, what is an endocrinologist, for people that don't know why is that association jumping on this bandwagon.
So, endocrinologists are doctors who specialize in hormone, hormone health.
And so, because our diabetes is something is considered a hormonal condition, right?
So, insulin is a hormone that is released by our pancreas that helps control blood sugar levels.
People usually are treated by endocrinologists if they have type 2 diabetes.
And let's not forget the American College of lifestyle medicine.
Oh, that was gonna be my last one too.
Absolutely, they say that for the long -term remission of type two diabetes, really adopting a plant predominant diet is the way to go.
Okay, so you just said something that is very important. You said plant predominant, you didn't say plant exclusive.
And I know that in reading your book, chapter two, you guys talk all about your approach and your approach is 80 -20. So talk to me, why is it 80 -20, not 100 %?
[39:29] Yeah, so while we've had a few years working with people and we found that a lot of people were just not ready to go 100 % plant -based.
And we didn't want to lose those people. We still wanted to be able to help them.
So we said, you know what, let's start a little slower. Let's start with just incorporating more plant -based meals, plant -based proteins into your diet.
You don't need to go zero to 100%. Um, and that approach seemed to really resonate with people.
And if we can just get people to eat more plant -based meals, I think that's a huge win.
Um, so we don't want people to feel like they have to be, um, a hundred percent plant -based, although we totally advocate for that as well.
And we love a hundred percent plant -based and we think you will see the best results if you could follow it a hundred percent plant -based, but we just, we didn't want to scare people away from this approach.
Got it. And you guys talk about calorie density versus nutrient density, explain that to our listeners.
[40:26] Okay. Yeah, so calorie density so we really focus on helping people adopt more of a nutrient -dense diet, which is and by definition a whole food plant -based diet and, This type of diet nutrient -dense diet is going to be very rich in nutrients So it's going to be rich in things like vitamins minerals and antioxidants all things that have been shown to Improve glycemic control and they're also just going to be lower in calories since they're not going to really contain, a lot of the processed elements.
So they're not going to contain a lot of like refined carbs, added sugars, saturated fat.
They're going to be lower in calories. So therefore you're able to actually eat a lot more of these foods.
You're able to eat a higher volume of food, get more nutrient dense density, and have more, be more satiated.
[41:17] You can eat a lot more of these foods which is going to help to fill you up and then keep you full for longer.
Whereas calorie -dense foods are going to be foods that are going to be very more ultra -processed, a lot of animal -based foods.
So think about foods that are really, really ultra -processed.
So things like sugary breakfast cereals, chips, ice cream, processed meats like hot dogs, deli meats, sugary drinks, all of those are going to be examples of more calorie -dense food.
And they're very hyper -palatable, So it's so easy to over consume them and we know that the over consumption of calories is what can lead to insulin resistance Right, so you're a huge fan of eating calorie light nutrient dense foods that are high in fiber high in antioxidants, Both these things the high in fiber the high in antioxidants, Increase your glycemic control and your insulin sensitivity you talk, a lot about low and saturated fat. We got the keto, we got the paleo.
These guys seem to be like advocates of saturated fat. What exactly is wrong with saturated fat?
And what kind of fats do we wanna be consuming?
Misconceptions about the ketogenic diet and type 2 diabetes
[42:34] I would love to go deep into this, Rip, because every week I get at least 100 questions about the ketogenic diet on our social media channels, and I go on rants about it.
So, unfortunately, the first exposure that a type 2 diabetic gets to nutrition is a low -carb, high -fat approach, the typical ketogenic diet.
As soon as they get diagnosed, the doctor sometimes doesn't say anything about nutrition, so they resort to Google and social media.
And the first thing is going to be a ketogenic diet is going to help you lower your blood sugar values.
You are changing that. We are changing that. So hopefully the plant -based diet is going to start popping up way more eventually.
[43:17] But people make that mistake because there is a confusion in the pathophysiology of insulin resistance.
So when people are already insulin resistant and they eat any kind of carbohydrate, even if it's the refined carbohydrates or the whole complex carbohydrates, they are going to see crazy blood glucose fluctuations.
But that doesn't mean that all carbohydrates are bad for you.
So there's two types and people have the lack of nutrition knowledge.
I don't blame them. I mean, nobody's studying nutrition for fun nowadays.
But there's two types of carbohydrates, refined and the whole complex carbohydrates, right?
So the problem is that when both of them are giving you blood sugar issues, then you lump all of them into the bad category and you say all carbohydrates are bad for me.
Bananas, potatoes are bad for me. vegetables, whole grains are bad for me because they're raising my blood glucose levels.
[44:11] And what people fail to realize is that the bananas are not giving people diabetes and potatoes are not giving people type of diabetes is the insulin resistance that has developed at a cellular level that are making you intolerant to those carbohydrates.
So then you have to ask yourself, what why is this happening?
Why are myself insulin resistant?
Is it truly the banana or maybe I have eaten some other foods that made me insulin resistance.
And like we touched at the very beginning, those foods are high in saturated fat and overconsumption of calories, refined carbohydrates that make that person insulin resistant. So here's the thing.
[44:47] People avoid all carbohydrates because they raise their blood glucose levels.
But when people start focusing on a diet that is lower on saturated fat, lower on fat content as a whole, void of refined carbohydrates, their insulin sensitivity increases.
So they are able to eat bananas again and fruits again and whole grains again without experiencing this crazy blood glucose fluctuations.
And that is the aha moment that people get when they join our program, when they read our book or when they come to PLANTSTRONG social media, people start realizing that they shouldn't be afraid of carbohydrates, the carbohydrates are not bad for them.
But unfortunately, too many people out there are preaching that this ketogenic approach that are not truly making people insulin sensitive.
Because you can only be insulin sensitive if your blood glucose is normal or it has a normal blood glucose response on a glucose challenged state.
And next time that you meet somebody that is following a keto diet, ask them if they can eat a banana or a potato without seeing a crazy blood glucose rise.
They can't. They are still insulin resistant at a physiological level.
So people make that mistake. Unfortunately, they dive deep into this ketogenic diet and they become more insulin resistant over time.
And over what period of time, let's say I've got full -blown type two diabetes.
[46:10] I wanna eat a banana and not have my blood sugar go crazy.
Typically, when I follow your program in the type 2 diabetes revolution.
[46:20] Typically on average, how long before I can eat a banana, a peach, a pear, something like that, and be okay, be insulin sensitive?
[46:30] It really depends on your levels of insulin resistance. So we have seen it as quickly as a couple of weeks, maybe a week to as long as five, six months of being on this approach to truly be insulin sensitive and being able to tolerate carbohydrates.
And it's also highly dependent on how much insulin that person is naturally producing, which is dependent on how long they have been living with type two diabetes.
Got it. So the longer that somebody has been living with the type 2 diabetes, is it fair to say, probably the less insulin they're pumping out of their pancreas?
Yes. So the longer that you live with type 2 diabetes, the more damage that you do to your beta cells that produce insulin.
[47:17] Over time, these cells become tired of overproducing large amounts of insulin, and they go through a process called apoptosis, programmed cell death and they start dying out.
So when you have a lower mass of this of these beta cells, you produce less and less and less insulin.
So your insulin production goes very low over time.
And and that poses a big problem because we need insulin in order to open the doors of the cells.
So glucose can can go in there. So we tell people to get a test called a C peptide test in order to determine their levels of endogenous insulin production.
And that will greatly determine what is the best course of action for them.
Because sometimes they're going to need lifestyle change and insulin forever if their insulin levels, if their natural insulin production is very low.
But I will tell you, this is a statistic that I don't really know, but I would be willing to bet 80 % or more people with type 2 diabetes have more than enough insulin production. As a matter of fact, excess insulin production.
So what they need to do is become more insulin sensitive so that insulin starts working again.
Mm -hmm. Fascinating.
The four-week meal plan and minimizing food waste
[48:29] Let's move on. So you guys have written a whole section with kind of a four -week meal plan and you've got grocery list, you've got breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
That's pretty darn trick, right? For four whole weeks.
[48:47] Anything you wanna tell me about the four -week meal plan? Sure, yeah.
We get asked all the time for meal plans, all the time.
And so we thought, you know what? we should just include some meal plans in our book.
And that's why we included a four -week meal plan and we use the foods, our recipes from the book.
And we wanted to include grocery shopping lists. And one thing that we also had come across too in the last few years working with people is that when they follow meal plans, there's a lot of food waste involved with meal plans.
And so what we wanted to do was really minimize the food waste, especially with food costs being so high these days.
And so what we did in the meal plans is that we created them so that what you're eating, any leftover ingredients, is also going to serve as snacks and we also give tips on how to reduce that food waste.
So for example, if a recipe calls for carrots and you buy a bag of carrots, we will have tips on what to do with those leftover carrots.
So we'll say, like, pair that with some hummus for your snacks.
[49:50] Carrots last X amount of days in the fridge, so you can use it for next week.
So we were really, really just, we wanted to make this meal plan really just easy for people to follow.
And again, like just reduce the food waste.
Yeah, that's really, really nice.
So let me ask you a couple questions. What are your guys's thoughts?
And then I want to dive into some of the recipes.
But what are some of thoughts on coffee and tea in relation to pre and type 2 diabetes?
Is it get the thumbs up, thumbs down, or is there a caveat there?
So the overall body of evidence shows that coffee and tea are actually can reduce your risk of type 2 diabetes.
I think what we really need to focus on is what we're putting in our coffee and our tea.
So sugar obviously is not going to be the greatest thing if you have type 2 diabetes. If you can do it without sugar, great, but if you need to replace it with something, we recommend a more natural, non -nutritive sweetener like a stevia or a monk fruit.
[50:54] So I think focusing on what you're putting in and same with the creamer, a lot of people tend to put really high saturated fat creamers in their coffee.
We recommend using a non -dairy milk or a non -dairy creamer that's unsweetened. Got it.
Talk to me about what drinks to avoid on your program.
So sugary, sweetened beverages is definitely a big one. So anything, any kind of a drink with sugar in it, you definitely want to avoid.
These drinks aren't gonna have any fiber that you get from, let's say, a smoothie.
At least a smoothie has some fiber, so it's gonna slow down the absorption of glucose.
Sugary, sweetened beverages is just pure sugar without much nutrition, so definitely avoid those.
And that includes things like sodas, gator energy drinks, sports drinks, juices, etc.
Okay, what about fruits and also dates?
The benefits of fruit and dates in the diet
[51:52] You guys a fan of fruit and dates? We are.
Yeah, okay, and so like can I eat 15 pieces of fruit a day? Is that cool with you guys?
[52:03] So if you become very insulin sensitive, then you are not going to have problem eating 15 pieces of fruit a day.
It truly depends on your level of insulin sensitivity.
Uh, when people are coming to us, uh, we're not probably not going to recommend 15 pieces of fruit a day. We're probably going to start with the low glycemic index fruits.
Uh, we're going to focus more on - Dr. Justin Marchegiani What are those?
What are those? What are the low glycemic index fruits?
Dr. David Jockers We're talking about berries, mostly berries.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani Uh -huh.
Dr. David Jockers Berries, apples - But then if you talk about the bananas, for example, those are a little bit higher on the glycemic index that could give people some issues at first, but then they become insulin sensitive and they don't pose an issue anymore.
What about the plantain? How's the plantain? Is that the same as the banana or is it a little different profile?
That's a good question. Do you know? Well, so if you have a plantain that's not fully ripe, so an unripe plantain, it actually has a lot of resistant starch in it resistant starch acts very similar to fiber and where it is not digested or absorbed.
So it does have a more favorable glycemic index compared to if you were by a very ripe plantain.
Right, and so speaking of resistant starches, what's your view on potatoes?
[53:23] I mean they do tend to have a little bit higher of a glycemic index And so if you are someone who is trying to control your blood sugar levels if you have type 2 diabetes We do recommend some tips and tricks when it comes to your potato so you can actually manipulate the glycemic index and the resistance starch content of them by boiling them and then cooling them and just by doing that you are actually increasing the resistance starch and.
[53:48] Lowering the glycemic index.
So we give little tips and tricks like that in our book Right.
And, you know, I'm good friends, and I know you guys are with Robbie and Cyrus with Mastering Diabetes.
And, you know, those guys probably are, you know, piling down 15 to 20 pieces of fruit a day.
More than that. More than that. Yeah. More than that. And, you know, they're type one diabetics.
But I think that the, I think the point stands that once you become insulin -sensitive, you can start to do some crazy things like eat crazy amounts of fruit.
Absolutely. I mean, just to touch on something that we haven't talked about, Cyrus and Robbie also do a lot of exercise. They are exercise freaks.
And when it comes to physical movement, it increases our insulin sensitivity.
So when you pair that up with plant -based whole food nutrition, you become a very insulin -sensitive human.
Well, speaking of that, I know that you guys, or maybe it's you, Jose, but you're both I think a fan of taking a walk after a meal.
[54:57] This helps, helps drive the sugar into the cells.
100 % that is one of the first things that we recommend when people come to us is just take a walk after breakfast, after lunch, after dinner, all it takes is 15 to 20 minutes.
And it has to be you don't even have to like go on a brisk walk, it can be low intensity.
And there was a research, it was a randomized controlled trial, it was a crossover trial.
And the results are.
Drastic changes in your a1c and fasting blood glucose three months and six months down the line just by walking after meals Compared to one single bout of 45 minutes, In any in a random time of the day so exercising after meals has a larger effect on your blood glucose Isn't that something?
Um Diana talk to me because you guys I know are a fan of beans, right?
We love what we love legumes Um, what do you love about the bean?
Oh, what don't I love about a bean? Um, do you love beans more than Dan Buechner?
[56:06] Maybe, maybe I eat a lot of beans. Um, I mean, they're just, they're a superfood.
They're the most underrated superfood out there.
Um, people are not eating enough beans.
I mean, look at, look at Dan Buechner's research. People who live the longest, one of the things they all had in common was the consumption of beans.
And one thing I just love about beans is their fiber intake, or their fiber content, right?
So as we know, like fiber is just so, so important to type 2 diabetes health, because one of the reasons is it's not digested or absorbed in our body.
And this helps to really slow down the absorption of sugar from food.
And it'll help minimize blood sugar spikes after eating. And then long -term research shows that fiber, a fiber -rich diet will also improve your A1C, your fasting blood sugar, your fasting insulin, and improves insulin resistance.
So fiber is just, there's so many benefits to it. And beans are an amazing source of fiber.
And the research shows that when we replace red meat with beans, it can really, really help treat type 2 diabetes because not only are you, number one, increasing your fiber intake, but you're drastically slashing your saturated fat intake as well.
[57:22] Bravo! And then what do we do for people that...
They don't have an amazing gut garden.
What can they do to minimize the gas that is created from beans?
Yes, so my best piece of advice is to start slow.
So if you are not used to eating beans, don't start with a full cup or even half a cup. Start with tablespoons of beans.
So like a tablespoon a day and see how your body adjusts to that.
Another thing you could do is really soak your beans for longer.
So if you're using dried beans, let them soak for longer than the 12 hours that's recommended.
And then you can cook them and by doing so, by allowing them to soak, you're helping to break down some of that, that fiber that may be a little harder to digest for you.
What are your, what are your guys's thoughts on soy and tempeh?
Are those a thumbs up or thumbs down on the type two diabetes revolution?
Major thumbs up. All right. Tell me why. Tell me why.
What do you like about soy and tempeh? Well, just similar to beans, soy is a fantastic plant -based protein, and it's so good to replace meat with it.
[58:35] And again, like you're reducing the saturated fat content, you're having some fiber with it, but you're also able to easily reach your protein needs with soy and tempeh, just a very good source of that protein.
And again, research just shows it has, when you eat a diet that's rich in soy products, or include soy products, it can really help reduce your risk of type 2 diabetes.
So you're okay with the fact that, you know, soy and tempeh are about 40 % fat, not a problem?
Well, when you're adopting more of a whole food plant -based diet, you're drastically reducing your fat intake and your overall calorie intake.
So I think there's definitely some room for some plant -based sources of fat in there. Right, right. Great answer.
[59:22] So, let's talk for a sec about olive oil versus olives, because I think this is, you guys do a beautiful job, you have a beautiful chart in the book that helps illustrate for people calorie density versus nutrient density.
So, if you guys can remember, like what's the difference between a half a cup of olive oil as far as calories and a half a cup of olives?
Yeah, so calorie -wise, I mean, one tablespoon of olive oil has 120 calories.
There's four tablespoons and a quarter cup. So whoever wants to do that math for me.
And so it's just a ton of calories, whereas a half a cup of olives, oh gosh.
I know, I have the numbers right here, so it's easy.
So half a cup of olive oil is almost a thousand calories. Yeah.
And a half a cup of just olives.
[1:00:16] Look at, I mean, almost a 12 -fold difference. Not just that, but they also contain fiber.
And a lot of other things. And a lot of other things, like dioxidized water, minerals, yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant. Okay.
[1:00:32] So, you guys, your book, right here, I'm gonna hold it up here.
So, Type 2 Diabetes Revolution, 100 plus recipes and 4 -week meal plan.
I want to talk about maybe 10 of your recipes here. All right?
[1:00:51] Let's start with this. You guys, I want to say, who developed these recipes and who took the photos?
Because they're gorgeous and really nice.
Let me tell you a story about this, Rip. So, developing all of the recipes took about a year and Diana is really, really good at being precise with the measurements of every single recipe.
She was using different spices, using a little bit less, a little bit more, and then we came up with the perfect amounts for every single recipe in this book.
Then, I flew to Puerto Rico, where Diana was living at the moment, and had a a four day extravaganza of cooking about 70 dishes.
We had a photographer, we had food stylists, we had, I kid you not, 10 people running around in the kitchen and Diana was like, conducting the whole orchestra.
It was a great time, I was just eating, but it was a great three days, four days of taking all of these beautiful pictures.
We truly believe that people are eating with their eyes as well. Yes.
Well, Diana and Jose, I have to say I'm greatly disappointed that I didn't get an invitation to this event.
[1:02:08] Maybe on the next book. All right, let's start with this. So this on page 108, we have the acai berry bowl right here.
Healthier Acai Berry Bowls with Less Added Sugar
[1:02:20] And talk to me, like, you guys talk about how most acai bowls have like 21 to 62 grams of added sugar.
Yours, like, has almost none of that.
Like, talk to me about an acai berry bowl.
So, I mean, as you said, most acai bowls that you buy are going to be loaded with sugar.
So usually it's sweetened acai, which is just the addition of sugar to the acai.
We wanted to still provide a healthy option because acai is a type of berry that is very, it's a very powerful antioxidant.
So it really can help reduce inflammation in our body, help protect ourselves from damage.
And so we wanted to be able to offer this, but a healthier version.
And so we actually just sweetened it with whole fruit.
So as you can see, you just blend together some acai, unsweetened acai that is, with some blueberries and strawberries and that you get the sweetness from those berries without having to add added sugar to it.
All right, I'm moving on to page 112 right now. This is the eggless egg cups right here. I love this recipe.
Oh, I mean, I just took one look and I'm like, I wanna pow, I mean, I just want to like dive into five of those here in about three minutes.
The Incredible Yellow Color of Vegan Eggs
[1:03:39] What gives these such that incredible yellow color?
Yes, so that's going to be a combination of the nutritional yeast and the turmeric in there.
And those two ingredients help mimic the color of regular eggs.
And what are you using instead of eggs?
Tofu. Tofu. Yeah, and it's really incredible. It tastes like eggs.
It has the same consistency as eggs.
My husband is not plant -based and he tried these and he was blown away by them.
You are married to a man who is not plant -based? Talk to me.
How is that working for you?
I mean, he only eats what I cook, so I would say he's plant -predominant because of that.
But I would say he's probably 70 % plant -based, because I'm the one cooking in our household. That's incredible.
Diana, I'm going to take a little bit of a detour here, because I don't know if I could be married to somebody that eats chicken or fish or red meat, because I just find it to be absolutely so gross.
And I wouldn't want it in the house. It's never in our house, because I agree.
It is I couldn't I could never cook that so I don't cook those things for him Um, I cook plant -based and he eats what I will cook Okay, he has no choice.
[1:05:04] So does he like eating the white bean and lemon kale soup that's on page?
337 yes, he liked that. Um, he was around for the photo shoot as well.
So he was eating all the leftovers.
Introduction and discussion about white beans
[1:05:20] And um, What do you love about, let's see, the white beans?
I guess it's that the resistance starts in the fiber, right?
Yeah. Hmm. Well, that looks really nice.
And it's just a different type of beans, has a slightly different taste to it.
So we wanted to include a variety of different beans in case, you know, we get told a lot that people don't necessarily like chickpeas.
So, okay, we wanted to be able to give people different options.
Yeah. But for the most part, they're all interchangeable. Yeah.
[1:05:55] Go ahead. People think that a plant -based diet is just eating salads.
That's an unfortunate thing that we run across all the time.
People are like, no, I cannot be eating a rabbit all day, every day.
This book just tells people the diversity that you can achieve with a plant -based whole food diet and all the recipes that you can make. Totally.
Like right now, I'm in the main section, main dishes. before that, there were, you have side dishes, you have breakfast, you've got some amazing looking burgers.
I'm looking at these, these veggie packed millet cakes with a dipping sauce.
So talk to me a little bit about millet. That's a grain that I don't use that often, but are you, I mean, I know it's an ancient grain.
Are you guys, does it have some particular property about it that is diabetic friendly? I mean, for the most part, it's very high in protein and fiber.
So both of those are great nutrients for diabetes. But then research just shows that millet in particular is a really great green for type 2 diabetes.
And I'm sure the fiber and the protein really play into that.
Lovely. All right, so on page 190. Turn your books, page 190, class. Here's our 190.
So you've got the crispy chickpeas, five ways.
And of course, the reason, I mean, chickpeas to me are so underutilized.
[1:07:24] I was hanging out with Cyrus. He usually stays with me when he's in Austin.
He literally will snack on cans of chickpeas, as you probably are well aware, he needs to try your crispy chickpeas.
So what are they, what are they crispied with and what kind of seasonings can we expect here?
Yeah, so the three ways are, we have a ranch style which is just apple cider vinegar, dill, parsley, garlic onion powder, salt and pepper.
We have a salt and vinegar, which is with white wine vinegar and some salt and then a nacho cheese in air quotes here, which is nutritional yeast Paprika onion powder chili powder and salt and so what you do is basically it did this recipe definitely took a lot of trial and error Because it is hard to get chickpeas crispy if you don't know the proper technique, And one of that those techniques is we're trying to remove as many of the skins as possible So, I don't know if you're like familiar with chickpeas I have a little bit of a skin but you can get it off pretty easily by just rolling it on in a in a dish towel.
And so you definitely want to do that first to get as many skins off.
And then you just put it in the, in the oven or air fryer and crisp it up.
And so these are, so you take the chickpeas right out of the can, put them in a dish towel and then roll them.
[1:08:41] Is that right? You drain and rinse them and then you roll them in the dish towel.
Okay. So, but they don't have to be completely dry when you start rolling them.
Um, uh, no, no, that's, or you want to like pat them dry, remove some of that moisture, but they don't need to be completely dry. All right, good, good little cheeky, good little cheeky. So.
Indulgent yet healthy dessert options
[1:09:01] Some people think, oh my god, I can't ever have another dessert.
But you guys have quite the incredible spread when it comes to desserts here.
And I'm a chocolate lover, so I'm going to zero in on three of your desserts.
The first is your chocolate -covered Snickerdates on 206.
All right? Yeah, I mean, really? I mean, I can eat these, and this is going to help my insulin sensitivity?
[1:09:27] Yeah, I mean, what, like, compared to everything is relative in nutrition, right? Are you eating this? Are you eating Snickers?
And if you're eating, this is going to be a much better option for you.
And of course, everything in moderation, you don't want to over consume these either.
But yeah, these are going to be a great healthier option.
[1:09:43] And listen, page 208. I'm making this tonight. And I'm kidding you not.
I'm going to post it on social. Look at this.
This is a chocolate chia pudding on 208.
That, to me, is what is that? Bananas with, does that have a little bit of walnuts on top?
Yeah, crushed walnuts, yep. And then what's the white cream?
That's not whipped cream, is it? No, it's a plant -based yogurt.
A yogurt. Do you guys, like, talk to me. What's a plant -based yogurt that doesn't have added sugars and is clean?
So, we have a whole appendix for that, actually. You do?
Yeah. So we actually go through some of our favorite brands.
It's not a comprehensive list, but just some of our brands that we like and so for the yogurts if you turn to page 250 you can see that kite Hill has a good And almond milk yogurt.
They also have a great style yogurt. That is good so delicious has an unsweetened coconut milk yogurt and Silk unsweetened vanilla almond milk yogurt and then there's a few others as well.
Got it All right, we're almost done here with the recipes that I'm going to point out here. Page 214.
You got me with fudgy. So here, here's the fudgy brownies. Only really four ingredients.
Like what are the four ingredients and and how can the audience make these?
[1:11:08] Yes. So it's just bananas, ripe bananas. That's going to help sweeten the recipe.
So it's three ripe bananas, half a cup of peanut butter. That's going to help bind everything together.
Then you're going to have half a cup of a hundred percent cocoa powder.
So that's the chocolatey goodness.
You could do about a teaspoon or more of baking powder. That's going to help give it just a little bit more texture.
And then just a pinch of salt. And And you basically just blend, kind of mash that all together until you get a nice consistency.
And then you put it in the oven at 350 for 25 to 30 minutes. Fudgy brownies.
Let's do it. And you can add some, in this picture, we had added some walnuts.
You can add some walnuts if you want a little bit of a crunch to it.
Sauces: Minimizing Oils in Diet
[1:11:56] So sauces. You guys a big fan of sauces and stuff like that? Yes.
Oh, yes. Because we do we do want people to minimize or at least reduce their oils in their diet Just because as we mentioned before it can be so easy to over consume Oils and it can be a major contributor to calories in the diet.
No Sauces and dressings are such a great way to flavor your dishes without having to use oil So we use a lot of nuts and seeds mix those up blend those up with other ingredients to create our dressings.
So here's like you guys have a whole bunch of them. Here's just one this green goddess drizzle looks goddessly like.
[1:12:43] What would I put this over? What would you recommend?
I mean really anything you could put it on top of a salad, you could do a on top of a grain bowl, or if you're Like, we have one recipe in the book that's called One Pan Chickpeas and Rainbow Veggies, and so that could be a really good one to put all over that.
And when, is this book available right now for people to purchase and how can they get it?
It will be available on November 7th and it is available wherever books are sold.
So that includes Amazon, Walmart, Target, Barnes & Nobles, some local independent bookstores as well carry it. Fantastic!
And how much, how long did it take you guys to write this book and do all the recipes?
Over a year. Yeah, good the photography like I said, we did between 60 to 70 photos We photographed them in two and a half days. It was it was madness.
I Actually, I understand because I've done the same thing.
Expanding Reach: Podcasts and Instagram Lives
[1:13:53] What's next for you guys you just kind of hanging on right now I mean waiting for the book the book to launch Well, right now we're doing lots of podcasts, we're doing a lot of Instagram lives, and what is next for this book, actually, it's going to be translated to Spanish.
Last week, I just finished the Spanish translation, and we're going to have the opportunity to spread this message in Latin American countries now, so I'm very happy about that.
Fabulous, man. Well, Diana and Jose, it's been an absolute pleasure spending time with you today.
Thank you for you know your your work with type 2 diabetes trying to revolutionize it and um and all the people out there literally the the tens of millions of people that are struggling with pre -diabetes type 2 diabetes and don't even know it that to me is the, uh the very very sad thing but man you guys great book you guys are wonderful human beings I hope to see you in person sometime soon.
Thank you, Rip. Thank you for having us. Give me a virtual fist bump on the way out. Ready? Boom! Boom!
All right. Over and out. Thank you. See you. Bye -bye.
[1:15:13] You can learn more about Jose and Diana at type2diabetesrevolution .com.
And I'll be sure to put a link to that in today's show notes.
Their book is currently out and available and even if you don't have high blood sugar, pre -diabetes or type 2 diabetes, perhaps you know someone who does and may find it useful for all the information and the delicious recipes.
I recommend giving it a read. Thanks as always for listening and always keep it plantstrong.
Support the PLANTSTRONG podcast by following and sharing
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The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, Ami Mackey, Patrick Gavin and Wade Clark.
This season is dedicated to all of those courageous truth seekers who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth.
Most notably, my parents, Dr.
Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr. and Ann Crile Esselstyn.
Thanks for listening.
