#303: Dr. Jules Cormier -How This Doctor Cured His Own Asthma, Eczema, and Daily Hives
What happens when a conventional doctor swaps prescriptions for plants, and a stethoscope for a Ninja Warrior course?
Dr. Jules also runs Maritime Ninja Warrior
Rip sits down with Dr. Jules Cormier, a dynamic family physician from Shédiac, New Brunswick, who has transformed his medical practice—and personal life—through the principles of lifestyle medicine. A former sufferer of asthma, eczema, and chronic hives, Jules shares how a whole food, plant-based diet not only healed his ailments but also revitalized his family’s health and well-being.
Returning to his hometown with a mission to serve, Jules integrates nutrition, exercise, and education into his clinical practice, empowering patients to take charge of their health. He opens up about the challenges of shifting mindsets in a community rooted in traditional diets, and how he bridges that gap with empathy, evidence, and resources from his blog.
But Jules isn’t just prescribing leafy greens—he’s living the example. A passionate athlete and Ninja Warrior competitor, he speaks about the biochemical and emotional power of movement, and how his family trains together to stay active and connected.
Whether you're a physician, parent, or simply plant-curious, this episode will leave you inspired to take the next step toward better health—one plant and one pull-up at a time.
🔑 Key Takeaways:
Healing Through Diet: Jules reversed chronic health issues by adopting a whole food, plant-based diet—first sparked by his daughter’s milk protein allergy.
Lifestyle Medicine in Action: As a practicing physician, Jules merges clinical care with lifestyle interventions, focusing on nutrition and physical activity to prevent and reverse chronic diseases.
Meeting Patients Where They Are: Understanding a patient's readiness for change is key. Jules uses resources, education, and empathy to gently guide patients toward plant-based choices.
Fitness as a Family Affair: Exercise is non-negotiable in Jules’ life. As a Ninja Warrior athlete, he embodies the link between physical movement, mental clarity, and resilience.
Returning Home with Purpose: Jules’ commitment to serving his underserved community highlights the profound impact of bringing health and hope back to one’s roots.
Learn more about Dr. Jules Cormier here.
Episode Resources
https://www.plantbaseddrjules.com/ - Dr. Cormier’s website
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PLANTSTRONG Meal Planner - https://home.mealplanner.plantstrong.com/
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Full Episode via AI Transcription Service
Rip Esselstyn 00:00:00
I'm Rip Esselstyn and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. What do you think happens when a conventional doctor swaps prescriptions for plants and a stethoscope for a ninja warrior course? Meet Dr. Jules Cormier, a family physician from the east coast of Canada who is transforming lives, including his own, through the power of lifestyle medicine. We'll have his awesome story right after these words from PLANTSTRONG. Imagine playing basketball with your buddies and suddenly you start to get really bad hives. And next you're having trouble breathing because of a massive constriction in your lungs and airways. This was basically the life of my guest, Dr.Jules Cormier, a physician who was profoundly frustrated because he didn't know what or why this was happening to him. So after years of battling asthma, eczema and chronic hives, Jules experienced a turning point when his daughter was diagnosed with a milk protein allergy. This moment sparked a family wide shift to a, you guessed it, whole food plant based lifestyle. And the results were nothing short of transformative. Now back in his hometown near New Brunswick, Canada, Jules is on a mission to educate and inspire, helping patients reclaim their health through nutrition, movement and meaningful connection. And this guy who. Who once was suffering to finish a game of basketball, is now a champion ninja warrior athlete and coach. With his entire home set up to support his family's favorite pastime. Let's meet this Canadian superhero, Dr. Jules Cormier. Welcome to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. It's a pleasure to have you tell me this. Now, can I refer to you as Jules? That word. Jules. Jules. So I know that you're in Canada somewhere. Give us a little geography lesson. Where in Canada are you?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:02:25
Today I am on the beach on the east coast of Canada in New Brunswick. So shitiac. New Brunswick, which is a province that borders Maine.
Rip Esselstyn 00:02:38
Oh, yep.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:02:38
Yeah. So as east coast as you can go.
Rip Esselstyn 00:02:43
And so is that where you've been? I mean, did you grow up there?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:02:46
Yeah, pretty much born and raised. I work 20 minutes from where I was born. I moved to Sherbrooke, Quebec, which is not too far from Montreal, Quebec, to do my. My PhD in medicine, but then moved right back, back home just because we're in desperate need of doctors back home. There's not a lot of people, but there's not a lot of doctors. So a lot of patients are without doctors. So as soon as I finished my training, I just went straight back home and opened up a practice there.
Rip Esselstyn 00:03:19
Got it. So just for all the all the listeners today. Jules has, you know, quite a kind of origin story about how he decided to over overhaul his kind of his, his diet and for, for all kinds of conditions that you had going on that, that I can't wait to talk about. Before we jump into that though, I'd love to understand more about your decision to become a physician. When did you know that you wanted to go into medicine?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:03:53
I, I so wish I would have this story of me being born to be a doctor. That's really not the case. Basically I started off in bio, wanted to switch into physics and I think I was just good at science. I liked science applied in medicine just because I think the, the kind of. I listened to the adults in the room who was, who were guiding me towards something that would give back and serve my community. So my mom and my best friend's dad were highly influential in helping me choose medicine. So off the cuff just applied to one university thinking I was going to go into physics and I got accepted into Sherbrooke Medical University. Probably obviously the best thing that happened in my life that was about a 10 hour ride from where I grew up. Almost never left home before that, so moved over there for a few years to do my medical training. Best decision I made and obviously it chose to become a doctor back home. But it was a little bit of an off the cuff decision just to kind of fill out the form and apply. But I had great notes in university and pre med, but our pre med here in Canada is basically just a whole bunch of science courses that opens up a whole bunch of doors towards all sorts of disciplines. But I was really like the mathematician type, very calculated like numbers and, and I thought that that was going to be my path, but ended up being a. In medicine.
Rip Esselstyn 00:05:35
Yeah, yeah. And so what type of medical practice do you specialize in?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:05:44
Okay, so I'm a, I have a weird practice because not the typical family doctor. I went into family medicine to general medicine and then not too long that I went to get certific certifications for skin surgery. So my, my days are pretty much cut into two halves. First half, I teach medicine at our local medical school, supervise interns and see patients with them or by myself. So I have my, my routine regular patient load and during the afternoons that's where I do my skin surgery. So I have a skin surgery surgery clinic right in my office. We have two operating rooms. So everything from lumps and bumps and everything that can be kind of anesthetized locally with a needle and we can do right in the office. So remove things that are benign, some that are not. And so that's the other half of my practice. And in July 2026 we are supposed to sign the contract today. The American College of Lifestyle Medicine has lifestyle medicine residency curriculum that's going to be integrated into our medical facility here in July 2026, the second LMRC program in Canada. So that'll be my new third expertise, lifestyle medicine. So that's, I'm, I'm obviously practicing lifestyle medicine in a day to day basis, but I'm not necessarily teaching it in a formal way like I will be next year.
Rip Esselstyn 00:07:18
Yeah. Okay, that's, that's really, really interesting. And so tell me, you said that you're, you're teaching at the medical school.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:07:28
Yep.
Rip Esselstyn 00:07:30
Are you having an influence at all on these medical students as far as the power of food is medicine or is that something that you can't. You don't touch?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:07:42
I. It bleeds into. It bleeds into. I mean I see the same conditions as a family doctor that any lifestyle medicine doct would see. Right. Diabetes, hypertension, cholesterol, heart disease. And I'd say about 70 to 80% of the conditions I managed are directly or indirectly impacted by lifestyle. Right. And we do have a population that wants to know what can I do to avoid taking cholesterol pills, for example. Right. So definitely it leads into the recommendations and the teaching that I do where before putting someone on a statin or on anti hypertensive medication, I think we're going to have a conversation about what we can do with lifestyle and that biggest chunk is nutrition and exercise. So definitely, definitely I do teach about that to my patients, but to my students as well.
Rip Esselstyn 00:08:39
Yeah.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:08:40
All right.
Rip Esselstyn 00:08:41
I think this is an appropriate time to actually, before we do that, I, I read that you have a. I think it's an older brother and you are a twin. You've got a twin sister named Julia, is that right?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:08:57
Julie.
Rip Esselstyn 00:08:58
Yeah.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:08:58
Julie is my twin sister and Luke is my big brother.
Rip Esselstyn 00:09:02
And so, so you're Jules and then your sister is. You say Julie.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:09:08
Julie, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn 00:09:09
Julie. So Julie and Jules, I guess that was very intentional. And are you close with her?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:09:18
Very close, actually. Funny story. Just, I think it goes to show how tight knit our community is. Julie is now working part time in our medical clinic since last week. So I mean I see her routinely when we go visit my mom, but now I'll be seeing her regularly. And she did manifest interest to try to help me out with the lifestyle medicine project that we're going to be starting here next year. So yeah, we're pretty close.
Rip Esselstyn 00:09:45
So do Julie, Luke and your mother. Have they embraced the plant based lifestyle?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:09:53
Well, I'll say this, my brother reversed his fatty liver with adopting. I pretty much sent him the videos of people I coach and I mean he's made quite some progress I'd say. I eat a 100% whole food plant based diet. Let's just say they're probably in the 80%. So I, I do think that some of my influences hasn't impacted them in the way they live their lives. Yeah, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn 00:10:24
Well it's definitely, it sounds like it's definitely rubbed off on them in a positive way. Well, let's talk about your personal overhaul and, and what exactly happened to you because you were a bit of a mess.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:10:37
I was a.
Rip Esselstyn 00:10:40
For a while until you finally decided to kind of get to the crux of the situation. So share with, share with the plan. Strong audience, what you were facing and all the different conditions that you had to put up with.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:10:55
Yeah. So. Well, let's just say that it started probably not probably during my medical training. So let's say early 2000s is when my asthma eczema kind of got out of control. Manage with with medication like we usually do. But when I started my medical practice in 2005-2007, that's where I started getting chronic daily hives. So hives are pretty much just rashes or welts. And I was diagnosed with chronic idiopathic urticaria. Now urticaria is the medical term for hives and chronic. I get him chronically every day. And idiopathic is a smart medical term for we don't know why it's there. Right. So they were triggered by changes in temperature and by working out. So and I'm a life lifelong athlete so I worked out. Hides would fill my body, cover my whole body. I would go in the shower, I'd come out with hives and I go. I live in, I live in the northern part of Canada. So in winter when to shovel sn came in the the house, hives covered my body. And hives are really a pain in the butt. They're super itchy. But I was managing them with medication. The medication made me drowsy. So I kind of took them off and on until I started working in 2007 and started getting flare ups that were much more severe and episodes where my face would swell up. So my first episode happened during a basketball match because I used to play basketball regularly and some third or fourth quarter maybe after an hour or two of running and playing or sweating, I started getting a tingle in my eye. Looked at my best friend Jeremy and said, jeremy, can you look if I have something in my eye? Within about 10 minutes, my, my eye was completely, completely swollen shut. I mean, I was a doctor at the time. I kind of knew what was happening. I'm like, oh, darn. I mean, urticaria can kind of decompensate into angioedema and angioedema, if left untreated, could progress towards an anaphylactic reaction. So he drove me home, kind of diagnosed, slash, slash treated myself. And I had three more episodes, all during bouts of exercise. The fourth episode was the worse and it put me in a hospital. I thought I was gonna die that day. I had an basically anaphylactic like symptoms. Full body, hives, both of my eyes, my whole face, my, I mean, my throat, everything was swollen shut. I was rushed to the hospital, admitted in the hospital where I work, putting, I mean, IVs by people that I've taught and trained with. Really a weird, weird time for me.
Rip Esselstyn 00:14:17
Now. Did, did, did. Were you having compromise? Were you compromised at all as far as your breathing was concerned?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:14:24
Oh, absolutely. So, I mean, I'm already, I was already diagnosed with asthma before that. So these things tend to decompensate. So I left there with a nepipen and warnings and medication and kind of knowing what to do, what to avoid. Dermatologist told me to take double dose antihistamines. I was taking one medication at double dose in the morning, another at night. I mean, symptoms were not managed. I was still getting hives daily and I was just kind of waiting for that fifth episode, which I thought was going to take me out because every single episode had progressed till then. So for me, definitely an aha moment. It didn't really change my lifestyle. I thought I was eating a healthy diet. I mean, I ate eggs and ham, lean turkey and I mean, I thought I was eating a healthy diet. I was an athlete, I was focusing on protein and meat and, and it's funny because not long after my wife gave birth to my first born, zara, who is 12 now. And Zara was soon diagnosed. Well, we found blood in her stools, in her diaper. Within first months of life, she was diagnosed with milk protein allergy. So surprise. So she had eczema, she had asthma. We had already rushed her to the hospital. Dietitian says, have you ever thought of cutting out dairy and meat from your diet? She told that to my, me and my Wife. My wife was still breastfeeding at the time. And I was like, why would you recommend that? Well, it's associated with allergic and immune conditions. And I was like, well if it were really, I surely would have learned about that in medical school. So I was a little bit skeptical, but went, went home, starting doing some research. I mean I definitely, I'm not googling things as a doctor. I'm looking at peer reviewed science and I'm, I've seen. Damn. There's actually a link here between animal protein and milk and all forms of dairy and atopic conditions, which are rhinitis, runny nose, asthma, eczema, urticaria and angioedema. I'm like, well let's, let's try this. My wife cut out dairy and animal protein from her diet during breastfeeding. I did the same. Slowly but surely just kind of remove the dairy, remove the red meat. That's how it started. And within a few months, I remember my first workout where my chronic daily hives that I had been having for years and years. I worked out, looked at my arm because I was always itching in the shower, right warm, while you're working out, the hives flare up, go take a shower, they get worse. And I'm itching. And I remember stepping out, I think I was doing like elliptical train or something as simple as cardio. And I was like, oh my. And I showed my wife, like I don't have any hives on my arm. That happened somewhere between the second and third month, if I recall, of that kind of transition towards a plant predominant diet. Now when that happened, that's kind of sealed the deal for me, right? Slowly but surely over the next year, transitioned towards a whole food plant based diet. Read the science, discovered your family, discovered Dr. Greger, Dr. Barnard, Dr. Clapper, Dr. McDougal, all of the pioneers, bought some books, started reading, started learning. Within about a year, year and a half, I mean, my symptoms were gone. I had stopped my asthma inhalers, my nasal sprays. I had stopped medication for my reflux, my gerd. I had not had any headaches or migraines, which usually I did after exercising. No more hives, stop my antihistamines. I mean, I was off my medication within about a year, year and a half. Now imagine for an athlete, every time you're working out and you're getting hives, you're just waiting for that one time where that little tingle in your eye happens and you know you're done, you know that you're going to have Angioedema. And I mean, I'm working 60 hours a week. I still am now, but I can't afford to take three days off because I can't see. When these reactions hit me, they were severe and they were disfiguring and I was working here and everyone was like, what happened to your face? And I, I didn't look like myself. I felt him. Honestly, I felt embarrassed. I mean, I felt embarrassed. You're the picture of health. You're an athlete, you're a doctor, you're telling people how to live their lives, and you're here with rashes and asthma and you're taking your inhalers anyways.
Rip Esselstyn 00:19:39
Yeah, but.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:19:40
But for me, when my daughter's symptoms went away, that was the click. That was the, I can deal with rashes, but you don't mess with my kids. Right. So over the next year or two, the whole family transitioned and now we're like a plant based family.
Rip Esselstyn 00:20:00
So how. So you mentioned that your, your youngest daughter, the first couple months, she had some blood in the stools and so how quickly after transitioning her off of, you know, the dairy and, and whatnot did she clear up with? No more of that.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:20:17
Oh, it's like a week. I mean, as soon as you remove the allergen, things just simply get better. Right. So, I mean, I think I could this day, I thank you, thank that dietitian for just putting these words in my mind so I could then kind of do my own research and change my, my life and definitely change my daughter's life as well.
Rip Esselstyn 00:20:37
Well, you know, what's interesting to me is, you know, I've got a lot of Canadian friends. I have a fair amount of Canadian physicians on the podcast. And it seems to me like as countries, United States versus Canada, Canadians to me, have a much more open mindset when it comes to this way of eating. I believe that you're. The Canadian government has the MyPlate, if I'm not mistaken. That is very, very plant forward, if. Is that correct?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:21:08
Well, in 2019, our Canadian food guide got completely updated. They removed the meat and substitute food group and the dairy food group and they replaced it with veggies, whole grains in a protein food group which emphasizes plant based protein. So we could say our food guide, our Canadian government, our. Our dietary guidelines are plant based eating, right?
Rip Esselstyn 00:21:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Huge.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:21:35
We don't call it that because that's maybe not popular with a lot of people, but definitely that's what the plate says.
Rip Esselstyn 00:21:42
Yeah. All right, so. So how long now would you Say that your family has been eating whole food plant based.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:21:53
Oh, I, well, I transitioned shortly after the birth of my daughter. It's been 12, 12, over a decade for me. Probably closer to 12 years. I've never looked back. My wife transitioned maybe a year after. It was a process for them. I Mean Cassie, my second born when she was born in 2014, she grew up on a plant based diet, right?
Rip Esselstyn 00:22:18
Yeah.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:22:19
Now my kids eat like us when they're at home, but if they go to a birthday party somewhere and someone offers them a piece of cake, they eat the cake. Right. Now what happens with my oldest one? She's like, I ate a little bit of cake. My eczema is kind of coming out. I'm gonna take a break for a few weeks. I'm not gonna touch dairy or anything like that. Right. So they're kind of self. They're gauging because when you're, I mean maybe Canada is open minded. I'm glad you said that. But we live in a very small town where people fish and hunt for a living. Right?
Rip Esselstyn 00:22:57
Yeah.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:22:57
We're living right on the coast. Fish fishing and hunting is a way of life here. So obviously my plant predominant eating pattern is me plant whole food. Plant days for me personally is not the most popular from where I'm from. Okay. Yeah. Or I, I live in Shidiak where the. We're the lobster capital of the world. Right.
Rip Esselstyn 00:23:19
Wow.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:23:20
They're self called. And we have a huge lobster statue in the middle of our town. Right. So telling someone I don't eat animal protein or seafood comes with a little bit of a shot.
Rip Esselstyn 00:23:32
So when was the last time you had a lobster?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:23:37
12 years ago. Three years ago.
Rip Esselstyn 00:23:39
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What would you say living where you live is? What's the hardest thing about eating whole food plant based?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:23:51
The. I, I'd say the. For me personally, we've really exponentially expanded the amount the options, plant based options. But it's still while traveling. Right. Because the friction that it causes in my life while traveling, I can deal with it. I'm going to look at menus, I'm going to make some phone calls, I'm going to send some emails. I'm going to make sure that wherever I travel, there's our. There are plant based options. Okay. But that's probably the gist of it. I mean in terms of budget, it's probably cheaper eating beans than eating anything else. In terms of preparation. I mean people think that eating plant based has to be this elaborate, complicated meal that's Instagram worthy. Whereas it could be fruits and veggies and hummus and chickpeas and beans and lentils. And it doesn't need to be complicated. So I'd say for me now I'm far along, I mean, oh, over a decade. Eating this way is not hard for me anymore. It's not causing any friction with my life unless I'm, unless I'm traveling abroad and somewhere new and trying to find healthy, healthy food.
Rip Esselstyn 00:25:00
Food. Who, who does the majority of the cooking in your household?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:25:04
My wife for sure. Yeah, my wife does a lot of the cooking because she likes to veganize recipes that don't typically look vegan, like her shepherd pie or her chili or her Acadian frico that we call, it's like a soup that, it's like a traditional dish here. So she's took it upon herself to make sure that the kids are eating food that looks like the food that everyone else eats.
Rip Esselstyn 00:25:31
Right.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:25:33
And I appreciate her a effort for that. But I, I, I don't eat a complicated diet. I mean, I'm eating sprouted oats with seeds and nuts and granola and berries and soy milk. I mean, nothing too elaborate. Obviously I eat with cheese, but when I prepare a meal, it's a stir fry with beans and chickpeas and lentils or scrambled tofu. Pretty, pretty basic recipes that are kind of realistic for everyone.
Rip Esselstyn 00:26:00
Yeah, Kale. Yeah, on that one. You've been, you've been an athlete your, your whole life. You know, you identify as an athlete just like, just like I do. And it's an important part of who you are. I noticed that you played badminton in, in high school. Is that right?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:26:20
Badminton was my, my, is my main sport in high school. All racket sports. I still, still play racket sports to this day. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn 00:26:28
Well, let me ask you this, and then I want to get into some other things, but have you played much pickleball these days?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:26:35
No, but it's definitely big here. I mean, I'm big in tennis, squash, racquetball, ping pong, have a ping pong table in my home in badminton, but I've never played pickleball.
Rip Esselstyn 00:26:46
Wow. Well, at some point in time, you and I need to play some pickleball.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:26:50
Yeah, I agree.
Rip Esselstyn 00:26:51
Like you, I've done all the racket sports, squash, tennis, ping pong, now badminton, and I mean now pickleball and just cannot get enough of it. So love. So, but what now you are like a badass ninja warrior? And so when did you develop this, this love and appreciation for kind of the the obstacle course with, you know, your, your arms and your legs and your body, which looks so difficult and challenging.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:27:25
Well, 2018, I'm working out every day, but I'm doing calisthenics, a lot of body weight movements like front levers, a lot of pull ups and push ups and body squats and with weight vest. And my brother Luke calls me up and says, did you see this show on television called American Ninja Warrior? And on, on NBC, I'm like, oh my goodness. L. Let me have a look at that. And I remember when I was young, American Gladiator used to play. I don't know.
Rip Esselstyn 00:27:55
Oh yeah.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:27:56
I mean, I love that show. Really resonated with the type of. And I was going to be one of the athletes on that show someday. So he, he talked about American Ninja Warrior. I was like, oh, how cool would it be to have a gym around, around here? Well, the closest gym to where I live is in Montreal, which is a hour drive a thousand kilometers or 600 from where I live. That was in 2018. In 2019, Quebec announces that they're opening up a Quebec Ninja League. So a whole bunch of gyms open up in the suburbs and surrounding areas in Montreal. And they're, they're, they have a league called basically didn't call my wife yelled at my wife and said, hey, did you hear about this? And she said, my wife is an athlete as well, a very strong athlete. And she says, let's, let's road trip. Let's, let's do a road trip and go try it out. So in 2018, we do our first road trip to Granby somewhere in between the beginning of 2019, late 2018. And the owner says, you look, you're pretty good. Damn. We have a competition coming up in six weeks. You should come down. And I'm like, I live 10 hours away. Well, the sport is just starting. Do one competition. So for embarrassing myself, I trained like a madman in the next few months, went to the competition, did extremely well. So TRA trained all 2019. Then the pandemic hit. So we can't cross over the border from New Brunswick to Quebec anymore. And then my wife says, how about we transform our, our home into a Ninja Warrior gym? So we built a gym in our backyard. We transformed our two dog, two car garage into a ninja gym and spend the next basically 18 months in that gym almost daily.
Rip Esselstyn 00:30:05
And now your daughter, are your daughters also into it?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:30:07
Well, yeah, they've competed with us. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn 00:30:11
That's a family affair.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:30:12
That's a family affair. In 2022, me and my wife qualified for the UNAA World Ninja Championships and competed in Vegas, both of us. And then we did the same thing again in Orlando, 2023, and we just competed at the World Championships in LA in Anaheim in 2024. So we went to the World Championships for the last three consecutive years. I mean our life revolves around competing because you have to compete every six to eight weeks. There are tournaments, competitions in Montreal, we have to drive there. So it's a huge sacrifice. But I mean we love, love, love competing and the adrenaline behind the sport is just amazing.
Rip Esselstyn 00:30:57
Do you find that the, the, the setup you have in your two car garage in your backyard is, is adequate for, you know, when you go to the World championships, are you able to tax everything and get your fitness level to the level you need it?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:31:14
Well, that's an amazing question because I'd say in terms of getting stronger, yeah, my gym, I mean I have a maritime ninja page on, on Instagram where people can see the whole thing. But basically the Ninja warrior sport has evolved so quickly. So quickly with kids starting at 10 years old and growing into the sport where their body is evolving and adapting and growing into the obstacles. You have to be so clever. And I mean I'm the one who's building these obstacles with some two by fours and a screwdriver and some nails and screws by myself. So I don't have a CNC machine where I can laser precise cut. So I'd say I always feel like the underdog. Right. Because people who train in Montreal, they train in a group settings 3, 3, 4 times a week in a huge gym where they modify the obstacles. I mean I probably put 10k in that gym just building and, and buying obstacles. But there's only so far you can go in a 20 by 20 square foot, like 400 square foot room, whereas these gyms have 10 to 20,000 square feet of different obstacles to train on. So I'm not using this as an, as an excuse by any means, but I'd say maybe I'm at a little bit of a disadvantage because it's just so many obstacles I can, I can build, right?
Rip Esselstyn 00:32:43
I would say so. And so when you go to the World Championships, give me an idea of is it, is it done in age groups and how many people are in your, your age group and give me an idea of where you finished all that jazz.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:32:58
Yeah, right on. So I'm 44, so I've been competing in the Masters category which is 40 plus. Okay. So the Fun part is that I'm competing with people like me. I don't want, don't quote me on this, but I would say there's about 120 to 150 athletes in my category. At the first year I was in the, I think I finished like in the 20s. I would say it was like 25 or 29. Okay. Next year I was middle of the pack, so in the 80s and this year about the same, I think I was in the 70s. So I'm always middle of the pack. But I'm, I'm okay with that, right? I'm okay with that because I know how it's just help my kind of personal growth to not be the best. And I don't tend like working 60 hours a week and training three times in my gym, though. I train every night, but not always in the ninja gym because of the impact. I mean you have to let, let your, your shoulder joints rest. But I didn't expect to do as well as I did and having my kids watch my competitions, watch me at the Worlds and, and just trying to inspire people to do something that's weird and different. I think that that was really the mission that I was on.
Rip Esselstyn 00:34:18
You've got a bunch of blog posts that go back to, I think 2022. If I'm not mistaken. You have one where you talk about how movement is medicine. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:34:35
Yeah, absolutely. So people forget that muscles are not dormant when they're not working out. When you're working out, first of all, they're producing Myokines and all sorts of kind of anti inflammatory compounds. So when you're working out, your muscles reward you by producing chemical compounds that flow throughout your body, cross the blood brain barrier, change your brain chemistry, change your metabolic function, change how your mitochondria burn energy. So I mean, I, I love the concept of being in the zone. So you get into a zone when you compete at a high level in front of 150 people watching you. You have one chance to not mess up. So I love that therapeutic kind of trans meditation state that you get in. But I also like going for a 15k run where you just kind of get in the zone, listen to a podcast and kind of rest and relax and turn off your mind. But the benefits of exercise go way beyond that. And, and studies show the people who max out their, well, longevity and the risk of chronic disease are correlate directly with your VO2 max and the amount of muscle you have. Right. So. And your strengths. So you Just you live a better life. Life is easier when you're in good shape. If you catch up pneumonia, you recover quickly. Right. If you work out, your cholesterol is better, your blood pressure is better, your, your mental health is better. I mean, pill exercise, like a pill that takes 30 minutes to swallow. I think the slogan goes. And sometimes if people look at the actual data, they kind of forget that people just by walking a few times per week can lower all cause mortality by somewhere between 70 to 90%. I mean, don't have medication that even come close to that. People can lower their mortality by maybe 20 to 21 by reversing diabetes. So people forget that. I mean, exercise is, is on a whole, a whole other level when it comes to kind of chronic risk, chronic disease risk reduction and improving longevity.
Rip Esselstyn 00:37:03
What do you think if you had to pick one of the two, what would you pick? Movement or food?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:37:11
Well, I'm biased because I think the data is pointing a little bit more towards exercise than food. But I think the main problem that society has is the food. Right. So people are eating worse. I think that they're. So I, I think food is having a more negative on a population level, more negative impact on chronic disease than the lack of exercise does. Right?
Rip Esselstyn 00:37:39
Yeah, yeah. As a family medicine doc, I'm sure you see people every day, all day that are suffering from hypertension, hyperlipidemia, all these things, overweight. How do they react when you suggest to them that they should consider a more plant predominant eating pattern?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:38:08
So firstly, I'd say that the way I'm trained is I first assess readiness to change. Yeah, I think the first step is seeing is saying would you be able or would you consider making changes in your diet if it could lower your blood pressure, cholesterol? I mean, let's not lie to, to ourselves here. People. People know me from online, right? So I'm from a super small community. My Facebook page has almost 10,000 followers. So I mean, even if it's not a huge following proportionate to the amount of people that live where I live, I think it is. So my patients already know, they've already seen me online, they kind of know what I preach. So I think I don't really need, I'm not blowing them away when I said, hey, did you know that like flaxseed could lower your blood pressure? But that being said, I mean, a lot of people are simply not ready to change. I'd say about 20%, 15, 20% of people are open to my suggestions. And unfortunately, very sadly, a lot of people say, just, just give me a cholesterol pill because I'm not gonna stop eating red meat and, and fried chicken. I mean, I try to respect that and stay open so that if they become ready in the future, they're, they're not embarrassed to talk to me about it. So first thing I do is just ask, do you want to hear my little speech about so and so? And the fun part is now with my blog, my website, and my podcast and my YouTube channel, I'm like, how about I send you a link? I'm gonna send you a link. So, and I send them my two articles on cholesterol and my podcast episode on cholesterol. And if they listen to it, I think they'll notice that what I preach to patients that are not really ready is taking steps towards increasing plants in their diet. Right. Because for a lot of people, if you say, look, I eat a 100 plant based diet, that's the way to go, that's going to scare some of my patients off.
Rip Esselstyn 00:40:14
Right, right, right. Understandably so. Especially with the big lobster statue there in the city.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:40:22
Exactly.
Rip Esselstyn 00:40:24
Give me your, your two cents on tracking macros and what your philosophy is on that.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:40:32
Okay, cool. Well, I think it's useful for optimization. Okay. I, I'd say personally, when I transitioned and was like, where am I gonna get my protein? I did track with chronometer just to get a sense of, oh, wow, I'm just kind of hitting all targets and not really trying that hard for patients. For the population that I see, I don't think tracking macros is really that useful because most of the people I see are getting 60% of their calories from ultra processed foods. So just, just adding beans is a major challenge. But I do coach people on the side where these patients, we absolutely encourage them to, to track macros because I think it's a, it's an eye opener. Right. People measure macros for a few days and, and with chronometer they actually measure micro as well. They measure their vitamins and minerals and, or, and for a lot of people it's kind of an aha moment, being like, oh my goodness, I'm, I'm eating 40 grams of saturated fat per day where I should be in the 1020 range max, or I'm eating 15 grams of fiber when I should be 30 or more. Right. But I'd say same thing as before. My same answer is I think we need to evaluate readiness to do that because for a lot of people it sets them up for failure where they find it causes a lot of friction with their lives. They find it difficult and they're like, I'm never going to be able to do this. This is too complicated.
Rip Esselstyn 00:42:09
So you know what? No, you, you bring up a good point though, in that even if somebody has no interest whatsoever, it sounds like it might be a good idea for them to, hey, you know, check out this app called Chronometer. And I think it'd be interesting for you to just track your macros and your micros, macronutrients and micronutrients, just to see where you, where you land on things. And they're like, oh my God, I'm getting 45% of my calories from fat and.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:42:33
Absolutely.
Rip Esselstyn 00:42:34
And like, you know, 15 of those are coming from saturated fat. And then maybe the education can start there, you know what I mean?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:42:41
I totally agree. And for me, it also signals a readiness to change because if you downloaded the app and you've went through the friction of logging in your food, that means that you're actually quite serious about this whole thing. You might not appear that way in my office in my 15 minute appointment, but that's a great, great start if people are doing that, just that kind of that, that, that. How do you, I don't know how you, you would phrase that in English, but that's like creating an aha moment, like space for an aha moment. Right?
Rip Esselstyn 00:43:11
Yeah. You seem to really love the science and I know that one of the first books that you just kind of voraciously tackled was how not to Die in 2015 by Dr. Michael Greger. But I'm also wondering how readily are you going through PubMed and looking at the science and all the different articles that are out there. There.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:43:39
Yeah. So, well, after, after doing the whole how not to Die and the, the books by Dr. Barnard and the Pioneers, I don't know if you're aware of this, but Guelph University, a university in Ontario, has a university level certification in plant based nutrition. So I did that for about a year to get certified in plant, Plant based nutrition. Then the whole T. Colin Campbell center for Nutrition Studies, then the Doctors for Nutrition in New Zealand also have certifications and I've done also the American College of Lifestyle Medicine certification. So all really reputable evidence based organizations. And the rest of my time is that, yeah, I go on PubMed and definitely look, but I mean there's something like 10 to 20,000 new publications per year on plant based diets. So it's very difficult to stay up to date. But that just shows how much interest there is in the movement. And I mean, and we have a whole, we have Plant based Canada Shout out, which is an organization in Canada which shares all the kind of the big studies and, and the new data coming out. So they're, we're able to kind of triaged through all of the studies to look at what, what's really important. Important.
Rip Esselstyn 00:45:04
Yeah. And you know, just a shout out to Dr. Greger and nutritionfacts.org where he, you know, distills down all these, all the research and shares that with us on a daily basis.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:45:17
A few weeks ago I met him in person. I was at the holistic holiday cruise.
Rip Esselstyn 00:45:21
Oh, you did that?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:45:22
I did that, yeah. And with Dr. Gregor, Dr. Bar, I had a chance to meet them personally and, and tell Dr. Greger that he played a vital role in kind of just reorienting my life, not just personally, but professionally wanting to teach plant based nutrition in medical school. Right. And like I say, today or tomorrow we're signing the contract to implement his kind of his teachings in our, in our medical curriculum.
Rip Esselstyn 00:45:49
That's great. So did you go with your wife as passengers or did you speak at all or, or what?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:45:55
Dr. Barnard asked me if I'd be interested to speak on next year's cruise, which, which that was just a great honor, but I've already collaborated with Dr. Barnard on, on two different occasions before the crew. So we had met before, but I was there as a participant. So sat on everyone's lectures, met everyone, ate some delicious plant, this food, brought my wife, brought my kids. It was really. I was, I was, I was a participant. I was not a speaker.
Rip Esselstyn 00:46:27
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great. Let's, you know, I think that it's always good to get a little reminder on the importance of this, this, this nutrient. We, we call it the most underrated nutrient that exists. Can you talk about that? Because I know you have a whole blog post on it.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:46:48
Assuming you're talking about fiber or protein.
Rip Esselstyn 00:46:50
Right. I'm talking about not, not protein. I'm talking about the most overrated nutrient.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:46:58
Oh yeah, okay.
Rip Esselstyn 00:47:00
Underrated.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:47:01
Underrated people think this fiber is just something dormant and passive that just kind of slowly passes through digestive system, makes your bowels regular. Some people even suggest that you do not need fiber, which is just blows my mind that you can kind of deny all of the data, but it is the most important nutrient that is related in a dose dependent fashion to risk reductions in pretty much any disease that you, that you could name. I mean the risk of cardiovascular disease. Cholesterol, diabetes, colon cancer, inflammation. Everything kind of gets better when you add more fiber. Fiber only comes from plants. And the best thing you can do to kind of nourish your gut microbiome is to have enough quantity of fiber and enough variety of fiber. So I mean every single bacteria, or I would say most bacteria. In your butt. In your butt. I'm French, so I'm trying to translate my French thoughts in English.
Rip Esselstyn 00:48:12
Yeah, you're doing great. You're doing great.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:48:15
But basically, I mean, our gut bugs, they ferment fiber, they reward us with postbiotics or short chain fatty acids, and different species of bacteria ferment different types of fibers and produce different types of compounds. So I think the most important thing or the one tip I could give you to anyone that says I want to improve my gut health is eat a variety of different plants. Now people will say, can I just take microbiome? Can I just take probiotics for my microbiome? You're not going to reproduce the complex ecosystem of your gut with one pill, that's for sure. So any way that people can add fiber to their diet, I'm telling my patients to sprinkle chia seeds in their lucky charms if they're not going to. So by any means necessary. Right?
Rip Esselstyn 00:49:13
Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I replied to a woman on Instagram yesterday who was bragging about how she hasn't had a stitch of fiber for six years and how she is, she poops once a week and when she does, they're scent free and they're really easy. And I was like, wow, that's, that's cause for concern on multiple levels.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:49:37
I saw that video. So I'm gonna tell a short, short story. I posted about the dangers of misinformation last week and got called out in the comment section by someone on a carnivore diet that basically called me irresponsible for making people sick. And he, he suggested that I was recommending plant based diets so I could make people sick so I could fund my retirement. I mean, they're using the same arguments that have no, I mean, that had no basis in reality. And, and the same thing. I'm like, how can you deny thousand hundreds of thousands of studies and scientific consensus? I mean, that just baffles me. But I saw the video you're referencing and I, I experienced these type of weird comments and posts in my contents as well.
Rip Esselstyn 00:50:36
Yeah. So do you know what's on the, the menu for dinner tonight at, at the Cormier household?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:50:44
I do not. I will soon find out. I'm guessing that it's a mix of, likely a protein source like tofu, maybe some marinated tofu with a side of beans and brown rice, some veggies. I'll. I'll soon find out, but my wife is going to be doing the cooking tonight.
Rip Esselstyn 00:51:05
Got it. I got one. One last question for you there, Dr. Jules, and that is, in your opinion, is there such a thing as a superfood?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:51:17
Oh, awesome question. So if the definition of superfood is one food that does everything, I'd say no, I'd say there's a, there's a, there's a super plate or a super dietary pattern or a combination of awesome foods. If someone say, look, you have to name one food that is a superfood, I'd say legumes, beans, chickpeas, or lentils. You, you know, you choose your favorite. Yeah, but I don't, I don't like the term superfood personally, because I see it more as a marketing term that gets really manipulated and abused where people can eat a unhealthy dietary pattern and think that by sprinkling this superfood on top of an unhealthy diet, that is going to somehow compensate for the unhealthy foods in your diet. But that being said, I mean, I'm a big fan of calling flaxseeds a superfood or calling beans and chickpeas a superfood, or so I know the term gets abused and misused, but I definitely don't use that with my patients.
Rip Esselstyn 00:52:28
And let me ask you this then. Based upon, you know, you said if you had to pick one, it'd probably be, you know, legumes. And tell me why legumes is that just because you could kind of live off them, they give you enough calories and nutrients, macros and micros, or. Why is that?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:52:44
Well, I think a lot of studies show that it's one of the foods the most associated with longevity and one of the foods that is, well, widely under consumed where I, where I come from. And I think that for a lot of people, it can be just added to whatever you're already eating. Right. So. Whereas if you're eating chili, well, putting black beans in a chili is not that complicated. If you're eating pasta with a spaghetti sauce, blending lentils for protein, fiber, complex carbs, nutrients, iron. Not that complicated. Right. So for me, in the, the same kind of thing I get always is, people say it's expensive eating healthy, and I'm like, In terms of nutrient density, in terms of cost, in terms of convenience and ease of use. I mean, legumes are just, just so easy to integrate to most people's diet. It's realistic to find them. It's cheap to cook them, buy them in bulk, and they're super nutrient dense, high in fiber, and like I said, just kind of easy to integrate to whatever recipe you're already eating. So it's one of the go to recommendations that I tend to make.
Rip Esselstyn 00:54:02
Yeah, makes a lot of sense. I said that was gonna be my last question, but I lied. And that's because your. Your. Your answers are so, are so great. Tell me this, Dr. Jules. Is inflammation a good thing or a bad thing?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:54:20
Oh, that. The answer to that. It is. Depends. Inflammation is your body's reaction to trauma or injury. So if you have trauma, you hit your hand, it gets red. That's the broken cells that have been traumatized. They release chemical compounds, and these chemical compounds, they attract your white blood cells and other chemical mediators that start the healing process. But to heal, you need to break down misfolded proteins and kind of clean up the mess. So acute inflammation, great. You need that to live. Right. The issue is that if I pick at my hand and it becomes red, it becomes acutely inflamed. But if I continue picking and picking and picking and picking for hours, the body's healing capacity will be overwhelmed by the amount of trauma. There's chronic inflammation, and then the body's like, ah, let's just scar. Let's just put a scar there because clearly we can't heal. And the issue with chronic inflammation is that that is at the basis of a lot of our chronic diseases. So acute inflammation, great. It's a protective mechanism. But if the inflammation stays there and the cleanup starts to actually clean up normal tissues and starts actually degrading normal tissues as part of the cleaning process. You're going to set yourself up for chronic systemic inflammation, and that increases the rates, makes your artery your causes. Endothelial dysfunction. Basically makes your arteries more sticky. So cholesterol sticks more in it impacts gut permeability. Basically leads to a whole host of. Of conditions that we call chronic diseases, right?
Rip Esselstyn 00:56:17
Yeah. Colorectal disease, all of it. So good, great, great, great answer, doc. Let me ask you this. You got a little. You still have a little dog named Fluffy in the house?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:56:30
I do.
Rip Esselstyn 00:56:31
What kind of a dog is Fluffy?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:56:33
Fluffy's a schnoodle. So it's a hybrid of a poodle and a schnauzer. Looks nothing like the photos. If you Google. Google Schnoodle online.
Rip Esselstyn 00:56:45
But we have a special dog and it's Fluffy. Does Fluffy eat a plant based diet or how does Fluffy.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:56:53
Fluffy eats a whole food? Plant based vegan diet. Yep.
Rip Esselstyn 00:56:57
Wow. So does Fluffy scraps or does she eat a particular plant based dog food?
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:57:04
It's a plant based dog food. I couldn't even tell you which, which name it is because my wife, he's the one who, who found that. But yeah, plant based vegan dog food.
Rip Esselstyn 00:57:13
There's lots of them now. There's lots of them now. Dr. Jules, this has been an absolute pleasure. I really appreciate everything you're doing over there in. Was it East Brunswick or East Brunswick.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:57:28
New Brunswick on the coast.
Rip Esselstyn 00:57:30
Yeah, there you go. There you go. And I want, I want to finish by just reading this quote that that's about you on your website and it's related to your mission and you said, I decided to embark on a journey to find the best evidence based health recommendations out there. I found them and they changed my life forever. And you know what? Continue. Continue doing what you're doing, changing other people's lives. It's a great thing. And thanks for coming on.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:58:05
Thank you for sharing your platform. I mean it's amazing. I'm honored to be here. I've been following your content for a long time, so I was thrilled to open up that email and I'm really, really happy to be here.
Rip Esselstyn 00:58:18
Yeah, well, all the best with your, your, your future ninja warrior competitions. I love that you got that, that fire in your belly for, you know, competition and athletics. It did burns brightly in mind as well. So on the way out, will you just give me a nice virtual PLANTSTRONG fist bump. Boom.
Dr. Jules Cormier 00:58:42
Amazing. Awesome. Thanks a lot.
Rip Esselstyn 00:58:45
To learn more about Dr. Jules and his work, visit plantbased doctorjewels.com and of course I'll link up to that in today's show notes. Whether you're a physician, a parent or simply plant curious, this episode will leave you inspired to take the next step towards better health. One plant and one pull up at a time. Alright, thanks so much for listening and as always, always keep it PLANTSTRONG. The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich and Ami Mackey. If you like what you hear, do us a favo
