#302: Michelle Joy Kramer - From Personal Loss to Plant-Based Purpose
What happens when a health scare and deep personal loss become the spark for a total life transformation? This week, you’re going to meet powerhouse health coach, Michelle Joy Kramer, who turned her grief into personal growth.
Michelle Meeting Rip at a PLANTSTRONG Retreat in 2017
Back in 2017, Michelle Joy Kramer joined us at a PLANTSTRONG Immersion in Black Mountain, North Carolina. At the time, she was just beginning her whole food, plant-based journey—sparked by a serious health scare involving her partner and a deeper motivation rooted in her father’s health struggles and subsequent death.
Michelle shares how she transitioned from vegetarianism to a whole food, plant-based diet, dramatically improving her cholesterol and overall health. She opens up about the challenges of navigating social settings post-transition and how she maintains her commitment to healthy living while dining out.
As a concierge health coach, Michelle offers insight into her personalized, tech-supported coaching style—blending accountability, emotional support, and tools like Garmin tracking with a strong foundation of compassion and self-care. Her holistic philosophy weaves together food, mindfulness, spirituality, and individual empowerment, creating meaningful change in the lives of her clients.
She Shares:
💡 From Crisis to Clarity: How her former partner’s health scare and her father’s passing inspired her shift to whole food, plant-based living.
🥦 The Power of Plant-Based: Within months of going fully plant-based, Michelle saw significant health improvements, including lower cholesterol.
🍽️ Eating Out with Intention: Michelle shares practical strategies for staying aligned with your values in social and restaurant settings.
🧭 Personalized Coaching: Her approach avoids rigid rules, focusing instead on customized guidance that meets clients where they are.
📱 Tech-Enhanced Support: Tools like Garmin help Michelle track client progress and reinforce accountability.
🧘♀️ Mindfulness & Meditation: Transcendental meditation is a key element in her coaching, helping clients manage stress and stay grounded.
🌱 Holistic Health Matters: Michelle believes true wellness encompasses mental, emotional, and spiritual well-being—not just food and fitness.
💬 Listen to Lead: She stresses the importance of active listening, understanding emotional eating patterns, and building trust with clients.
Michelle's story is a heartfelt reminder that transformation starts with intention and is sustained by compassion, education, and support. Her blend of personal experience and professional insight offers both inspiration and actionable tips for anyone looking to take charge of their health—whether you're just starting or already on the path.
Learn more about Michelle’s coaching HERE
Episode Resources
https://michellejoykramer.com/ - Michelle’s concierge coaching website
Learn more about our 2025 Plantstrong Retreat in Black Mountain, NC - Nov 9-14, 2025
PLANTSTRONG Meal Planner - https://home.mealplanner.plantstrong.com/
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Full Episode Transcript via AI Transcription Service
Rip Esselstyn 00:00:00
I'm Rip Esselstyn and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. What happens when a health scare and deep personal loss become the spark for a total life transformation? This week you're going to meet powerhouse health coach, Michelle Joy Kramer, who turned her grief into personal growth. That's coming up right after these words from PLANTSTRONG. I love reconnecting with past PLANTSTRONG retreat attendees and hearing how this lifestyle is unfolding in their lives. Back in 2017, Michelle Joy Kramer joined us at a PLANTSTRONG immersion in Black Mountain, North Carolina. At the time, she was just beginning her whole food plant based journey, sparked by a serious health event involving her partner and a deeper motivation that was rooted in her father's health struggles and subsequent death. Since then, Michelle has transformed her own life and now coaches high powered professionals towards better health. In this episode, she shares how she moved from vegetarianism to embrace a fully PLANTSTRONG lifestyle and dramatically lowering her cholesterol while navigating the social challenges that come with making such a bold shift. She also shares her tips for coaching these business executives, many of whom are men. And believe me, it's not necessarily what you may think. Here to spread joy and PLANTSTRONG love is Michelle Joy Kramer. Michelle Joy Kramer, welcome to the PLANTSTRONG podcast.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:01:54
Thank you. RIP Esselstyn.
Rip Esselstyn 00:01:57
Yes. Yes. Where am I talking to you from today?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:02:03
You're talking to me from Naples, Florida.
Rip Esselstyn 00:02:06
Naples, Florida. Do you like Naples? Love it, huh? How long you been there?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:02:13
I've been here almost 14 years.
Rip Esselstyn 00:02:17
Did you guys get hit pretty hard by one of those hurricanes last year or two?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:02:23
Yes, we did.
Rip Esselstyn 00:02:24
Yeah. How did your place survive?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:02:27
Very lucky. No flooding and. Yeah, we were very lucky this year. Last year.
Rip Esselstyn 00:02:36
Tell me, Joy. Michelle. Joy. I see Joy and I'm like, God, do people ever call you Joy? Is that ever? They do.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:02:45
They do. My mother, I was the firstborn, so my mother said I was the joy of her life, and she came up with Michelle Joy. And I started using that in my branding actually, 15 years ago. And my teacher who started my school, Integrative Nutrition, Joshua Rosenthal, he calls me Joy and a bunch of my other friends call me Joy, so.
Rip Esselstyn 00:03:09
Yes. Yeah. Well, I have a daughter named Hope, so I see Joy, and, you know, it kind of. They run in parallel paths, so. So if I call you Joy, don't hold it against me.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:03:23
I love it.
Rip Esselstyn 00:03:25
Good, good, good.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:03:26
I feel a lot of joy being here with you, just so you know.
Rip Esselstyn 00:03:29
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're gonna have a joyful time here discussing all the great things you're up to. Tell me about your personal journey to kind of whole food plant based nutrition. How did that begin?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:03:45
Ah, feels like a lifetime ago. It started about eight years ago and I was here in Naples, Florida and my partner, my girlfriend at the time had. We were going out for an evening and all of a sudden her blood pressure went up and we ended up in the hospital that evening. And she had a heart issue, blockage. And it just happened very quickly. She was in her late 40s. Very, just surprising. She had lost a lot of weight and made some healthy changes in her life. I wasn't whole food plant based at the time, and neither was she. And I was always vegetarian, but never whole food plant based. And it really just in one moment, I mean, my whole life changed. And she had a couple stents put in and it ended up being a coincidence that her uncle knows your dad. And so we ended up after the surgery, we flew to Ohio. We were in your dad's and mom's living room. And I remember your dad saying, no oil. Yeah, I didn't know what he was talking about.
Rip Esselstyn 00:05:08
That's right. No oil in the car.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:05:11
No oil. Well, I had so much oil in our house that, you know, MCT oil.
Rip Esselstyn 00:05:19
Right.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:05:19
I'm an Ironman athlete, so the coconut oil, all of that I thought was really good for me and just completely changed our diets in, in a very short period of time.
Rip Esselstyn 00:05:33
Okay, so. So you kind of went down the, the path initially because of this health scare that your partner had. But tell me about, like, where were you personally on your, your journey at that time? Were you healthy, unhealthy? What were you like?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:05:55
Well, I thought I was healthy. I felt great. You know, nothing was wrong. I had cholesterol, total cholesterol over 200. I thought that was normal. I have a history of heart disease in my family, so it was always a thought for me. But I thought, I'm an athlete, I have low body fat, I feel good. So I thought I was, I thought I was healthy and felt good. Little did I know, you know, and in three months from doing the whole food plant based diet, my cholesterol went from 200 to around 1 48. Yeah, I mean, huge changes. My LDL went down, triglycerides, everything. And that's when I got hooked. And then I started feeling better, recovery quicker. So to answer your question, I never, I always felt good, but I never knew how good I could actually feel. You know, that was the real turning point for me because I already Felt good.
Rip Esselstyn 00:07:02
Right, right, right. So you went from good to great, right? Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah. You didn't know there was any improvement there, but there. But there was. That's great.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:07:11
Yep.
Rip Esselstyn 00:07:13
And your, your partner at the time who had the stents put in and kind of was in trouble. Was she able to stick with this or, or not, do you know?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:07:25
No.
Rip Esselstyn 00:07:26
No. Okay. Okay.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:07:28
She tried. She tried. It was really difficult. I think it was a strain on our relationship.
Rip Esselstyn 00:07:36
What was you mean? Just that, just trying to get her to, to follow the lifestyle.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:07:41
Yes. I became militant around it all because I was feeling so good. I saw the results, I saw the results that she had in a few months. We, and we actually went and saw Dr. Delaney, who's a cardiologist in Port Charlotte, a couple hours from us. So she was monitoring her and we didn't have any, we don't have any lifestyle medicine doctors in Naples that are cardiologists. So we drove to Dr. Delaney and had her monitor her. And I remember we got on a call with her maybe three months after being on the diet. And my girlfriend saw all the changes. The difficult part was we were traveling and eating out and enjoying the lifestyle. And after we left your dad's house, we were like, we were so depressed that we drove to a pizza parlor. We're like, how are we ever gonna do this? But we did and there were results. I just think it was difficult to maintain that lifestyle of so called fun eating out all the time and being this, you know, being on this way of eating.
Rip Esselstyn 00:08:53
Yeah, well, you've, you've obviously figured it out because it's been over eight, nine years now that you've been doing this. How do you navigate eating out now that you, that you're a savvy, whole food, plant based ninja warrior?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:09:12
I love that. I don't really, I don't eat out much. I don't really feel good when I eat out, even if I get things steamed and everything. And I cook a lot at home and I think, which is what I teach in my practice is as a health coach, is ways to eat on the go. And so, you know, like you as a triathlete. I've always, I've never been. I always like to say people live to eat or they eat to live. And I've always been one to just find quick ways to eat. So for me, food is just fuel. And so I have found ways to find whole food plant based nutrition on the go. Like your products with PLANTSTRONG and I call your, your products actually the Hurricane food for Naples, because we can grab all the food, you know, order the food and it's ready to go and you can eat it when you have no electricity. So I just have found ways to help people navigate through, you know, that aren't in the kitchen. And that's how I live. So I don't really eat out much because I love to eat at home. I've learned ways, you know, enjoy my food at home.
Rip Esselstyn 00:10:30
Yeah. So let's go back eight years ago. You had this incident with your partner. What were you doing at the time, as a career?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:10:40
I was a health. I'm a health coach. I've been a health coach for 15 years.
Rip Esselstyn 00:10:45
Okay.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:10:45
@ that time, I was health coaching at a television station in Miami, wlrn, which is also part of npr. And so I was teaching and I was also building my one on one practice with health coaching. And again, it was more around vegetarian, you know, eggs and fish and lots of oils. So I was health coaching and online as well. Built an online practice.
Rip Esselstyn 00:11:15
Right. So my, My understanding from visiting. Visiting your website and reading up on you is that you now, you know, you run a global private concierge health coaching practice, which is fantastic. I want to dive into a little bit more about that and who your clientele are, but before we do, because I. Because in doing my research, I think it really informs where your passions lie right now with who you're coaching. I'd love for you to kind of share with the PLANTSTRONG audience, a little bit about your relationship with your father and what happened there.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:12:01
That's a big one.
Rip Esselstyn 00:12:03
Well, we like going big.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:12:05
Of course we do. So my father committed suicide when I was nine and he was overweight. He was super successful. He was an attorney. I grew up with my dad and my grandfather, both attorneys. So learned, respected both of them very much. My grandfather passed as well, but with my dad, he was the closest person to me. I was nine years old. Just completely. I always like to say that's what had me become an ironman or iron woman. It was that I was just driven at nine years old. I'm the oldest child. I have two sisters, one that passed away a year and a half ago. They're identical. They were identical twins. So I kind of became the. I call it the man of the house, care of my mom and my sisters, and just had this determination and structure and at such an early age. And that was the way that I went through my grief. I started running probably two days after I learned that my father passed away. My best Friend in the neighborhood, his brother was a runner. So we went on the track and it was the first time that I felt some relief and that's where my passion for running began. And it was a way for me to, you know, just, yeah, grieve my father. It was a huge loss for me.
Rip Esselstyn 00:13:39
What do you think it was about exercise, running that was able to temporarily soothe the pain?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:13:52
I think for me, now that I know the science, I would say endorphins, but I didn't know what endorphins and serotonin and dopamine were back then. So it's kind of having all of those chemicals happening for me in the brain, but also this feeling of freedom, like the wind blowing, being outdoors, the nature. I just felt so good during and after. It became a social thing for me, which I'm now doing as well in running groups as an adult. So it became like the social activity with my friends. But we'd be active and moving, so there's something with that moving and movement. And I would think of my dad when I would run. We did paper routes together when he was living. So I started very early on in the dark. I mean, he'd wake me up out of bed at 5am I still get up at 4am now in the mornings. So there's something about that quiet in the dark and that time alone that I enjoy.
Rip Esselstyn 00:14:56
So was it your paper route that your father was helping you with at 4am?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:15:01
Sorry, it could have been his paper route really.
Rip Esselstyn 00:15:08
So he's an attorney and he also has a newspaper route?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:15:10
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn 00:15:11
Why?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:15:12
He's. I think towards the end, before he passed, he. And I know not think my mother shared with me that he struggled, he struggled in his career towards the end he struggled being around people. He put on probably 50 pounds. He was overweight when he passed away, very depressed, lots of depression. So I think towards the end he was struggling to be out with people and. Yeah, so that. So he had a couple jobs to make ends meet.
Rip Esselstyn 00:15:47
Got it, Got it. Understood. And so from what I read, it sounds like you also suffered with depression for a period of. Of time there and some binge eating. Anything you'd like to say about those. Those things?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:16:06
Oh, you really read my story. That was a big. Actually that story I put out on my website was a big deal for me to really share myself, you know, with people too. And I would say the binge eating and depression have been a journey and I've always been involved in something called Landmark. I've been involved with Landmark for 25 years. And I think between that and transcendental meditation that I do and things that I've learned ways each day, certain rituals to, I like to say, manage. I think that's where the diet plays a huge role in the, the shift that happened eight years ago with the plant based, that if I ate, when I used to eat refined sugar, I would feel depressed. And this is something I share with my clients, that I got off refined sugar way before I was plant based about 20 years ago. And I was on Prozac and Wellbutrin. And you know, these young clients that hire me, their parents hire me for them that are on antidepressants today, they're eating refined sugar. And that's the first place I go with people. My depression went away.
Rip Esselstyn 00:17:27
Give me an idea. When you say refined sugar and your clients that are on these meds and you get them off refined sugar, how do you, what does that look like as far as the food that they're eating? Is it soda? Is it soda pops? Is it, is it bread? Is it sugar in their coffee? What is it?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:17:49
All of it. All of it. I, what I do is I add in things for my clients so I don't take away the sugar. You know, some clients will say, you know, especially my males, my corporate executives, they'll say, all right, I'm done with the sugar. For my lady clients, it takes a little bit of time. For them it's a little different. Where by adding in things, let's say adding in some grains, you know, adding in refined. Let me go back to your question. Refined sugar, I mean, like white sugar, brown sugar, things like you said, that are in bread and things like that candy, it could be anything. But when I add in things, whether it's even just drinking more water, you know, people are so dehydrated today. I'm always amazed somebody new will come to me and they're drinking, you know, eight, eight ounces of water. That's all they're drinking all day long, right?
Rip Esselstyn 00:18:50
Yeah, yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:18:52
You know, yeah. And coffee doesn't count as water, so.
Rip Esselstyn 00:18:58
All right. I, I, I really want to dive into your, your coaching, but not yet. So we're going to hold off on that. I want to know a little bit more because you witnessed something on probably CBS Wide World of Sports the same time that I did, and it really influenced you to want to do a, an Ironman triathlon. And that is, you saw Julie Moss basically crawling to the finish line of the Ironman World Championships. I think it was in 1982. And it was pretty darn powerful. And you, you saw that while smoking a cigarette and you're like, I'm gonna do that one day.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:19:40
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn 00:19:43
What. What do you think it was that gripped you and made you wanna go for that?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:19:54
I'm so. I could start crying. I'm still, like, emotional. It. I'm a crier, by the way.
Rip Esselstyn 00:20:03
I like to shine. Sign of strength.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:20:06
Thank you. It's funny, I was living in New York. I was. I was stand. I remember I was standing watching on television with my cigarette, and I was just staring and blown away by these women, and they're crawling to this finish line. And at that time, I was doing 5k runs. Smoker, didn't swim, didn't own a bike. And I just watched and I'm like, I don't even know what came over me. I'm just. I wanted to do it. And I just. I ended up moving. I left New York, I went home where my mom was living at the time, in Juneau Beach, Florida. And I hired a coach. And he believed in me. And I'll let you ask if you have other questions, but the story began there and that was the beginning.
Rip Esselstyn 00:20:56
So what year was that? Because we might be confusing, you might have saw in Jan Ripple that was crawling across the finish line. Because for me, and I'm about, probably 12 years, 13 years older than you are, I'm 62. So for me it was 1981. But for you, do you remember what year it was that you saw this?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:21:18
This was. And it was Julie Moss.
Rip Esselstyn 00:21:21
Really? Okay. Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:21:22
So what year was that?
Rip Esselstyn 00:21:23
You said 81.90B1.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:21:28
I wonder if it was like, you know how sometimes they show, like replays of things?
Rip Esselstyn 00:21:32
Yes, yes.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:21:33
On Iron Man. So I don't know if it was a replay because that. I moved to juno beach in 2000. So I'd say I was watching that around 1998. Okay, so maybe it was kind of a caption on one of the Iron Mans.
Rip Esselstyn 00:21:47
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:21:49
You know?
Rip Esselstyn 00:21:50
Yeah. Because you weren't smoking a cigarette at the age of nine or ten.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:21:53
No, no.
Rip Esselstyn 00:21:57
Right. Well, it's funny, for me, it wasn't Julie Moss crawling across the finish line that captured my attention. What for me was along with that same broadcast, they showed Dave Scott, who was finishing up this marathon in the 110 degree heat on the big island of Hawaii. And this guy looked like an Adonis and he looked like a racehorse. And I was like, wow.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:22:25
Wow.
Rip Esselstyn 00:22:26
I. I want to be like that.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:22:28
Yes, I remember him.
Rip Esselstyn 00:22:30
Yeah, yeah. Total stud.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:22:32
Oh my God. He was big time back then.
Rip Esselstyn 00:22:35
Yeah. So you, you started doing, I mean training for the triathlons. You were successful competing the Ironman Hawaii in Hawaii, which is no small, no small task. And then you started getting adrenal fatigue and digestive issues and you sought out a chiropractor who basically helped you turn, turn the ship around a little bit.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:23:03
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn 00:23:05
What did he, what did he or she say to you that that was able to get you down a healthier path?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:23:14
So I had just finished Hawaii, I think it was 2000. Well, it was 2003.
Rip Esselstyn 00:23:19
Three.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:23:20
And I went and saw Dr. Sullivan who's still in Jupiter, Florida and I was, I had seen her, but I finally, after Hawaii I just said, you know, I just don't feel good. I was 14, body fat. I looked the part, the whole thing and underneath I just was tired all the time, you know, I knew I was over training but I couldn't stop, you know, and I thought 100 mile bike ride a day and 10 mile run is normal for me, you know. So she said, you know, I think you have adrenal fatigue and also you're. I was addicted to artificial sweeteners. I was addicted to sugar. I was still doing all this during Hawaii and she said, let's cut out wheat, dairy and sugar. Those were the three things. I had a weed allergy that I wasn't aware of and my inflammation went down. It was very difficult. It was about three months of like withdrawal. That's what it felt like. And I had already quit smoking so I wasn't smoking anymore. That was just kind of a closet thing I was doing on the side. But God, I felt so much better after. And then I packed up the Ironman training and I said I'm going to go back to school and help people. And that was the beginning. I couldn't believe the difference. I started feeling better and this was obviously way before the whole food plant based so was.
Rip Esselstyn 00:24:49
Well first let me just say congratulations because, and I, I know because I've been there myself that you can get so wrapped up into the, the triathlons being an Iron man or Iron Woman triathlete. And you so self identify with that, that part and people are so impressed. And the reality is, and I'm sure that you talk about this in your coaching because you try and have your clients have a well balanced life, but there's not, there's nothing about doing an Ironman or training for an Ironman triathlon that is well balanced. No, I mean things are going to be out of, you know, out of, out of order, out of place. You know, whether it's your. Your career that's going to suffer, your relationships that are going to suffer, you know, like you said, major fatigue. Because what. What do you think is gonna happen when you're training five to seven hours a day? I mean, it's really hard for, I think, for the body to keep up. And I did a really fantastic podcast with Carrie with a guy named Brad Kearns, who wrote a book called Born to Walk with a guy named Mark Sisson. And it's really a challenge is. And it's very, very disruptive. This whole notion of, you know, running and this. The endurance training that so many people are getting kind of hooked on these days. And then you become this obligate runner or triathlete. And if you don't get your run in or your swimming or your bike and you feel like you're a failure, it's just.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:26:25
It's a cycle. I do want to go back to one thing you asked me.
Rip Esselstyn 00:26:28
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:26:29
Because it really was my stepfather who, when I watched Julie crawl to the finish line, my stepfather. I went back when I moved back home, and there was in the newspaper this. These. This father and three sons, the rebacks. And they're still doing a lot of triathlons. And I saw their picture and it said ironman, Hawaii. And it just kind of. Things started coming together, and that's when I hired my coach, Marty, and my stepfather. I said, I want to do this. And he goes, oh, you'll never be able to do this. Well, the minute he said that, that really, as the oldest child, got me going. I thought, I'm gonna show him. And that was where nothing stopped me. You know, just one of those. Something clicked in my head. It was like, let me prove something so that he's actually. We laugh about it. He. He's a gift in my life.
Rip Esselstyn 00:27:23
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:27:24
That was kind of the straw of like, someone telling me I can't do something. Yeah, no, I just wanted to share that.
Rip Esselstyn 00:27:31
Yeah, yeah, it's great. So you. You've got a lot of accreditations. I know you became a nutrition health coach and you got your degree with the Institute of Integrative. Yeah, nutrition. Is that where you kind of studied over 100 different kind of different dietary methodologies?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:28:00
Yes, I. That was the beginning for me, and it was great because we had all different teachers. Colin Campbell came, Deepak Chopra. So all different types of teachers that would teach about their dietary theories. And then it was great. Because it would be. You'd have a vegetarian teacher one day and then five love languages another day and then ayurvedic medicine. So I, I got a real broad blend of so many dietary theories to be able to really take on anyone and, you know, meet them where they are with their diet and lifestyle. So I started there.
Rip Esselstyn 00:28:37
Yeah. What you, what, when did you, when did you take that course?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:28:44
I took that course in 2010.
Rip Esselstyn 00:28:47
Okay. And you. So it sounds like. So are they agnostic as far as trying to recommend a particular way of eating? They just basically want to share and have you learn a broad spectrum and then you decide what is their philosophy?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:29:14
Their philosophy is every body is different and it's a bio individuality. So everybody's different. Their upbringing is different, their blood type's different, their doshas are different with ayurvedic medicine. So it gave us as health coaches just kind of this broad spectrum of each person. So if you came to me and you said, you know, I'm really struggling and I can't seem to get up and go to the gym, I would have you. I give clients a lot of quizzes, which I've learned in school. I'd have you go through the eight colors of fitness, my friend, dear friend, Suzanne Brew wrote, and I'd have you take a quiz that takes five minutes and we'll figure out your, your color fitness. And then, you know, I share with you why, you know, what are the barriers and what are some tips that would help you. Maybe as a purple you don't like the gym, but as a silver, you do. So it's kind of more giving people permission to be okay with who they are and they don't have to be like their friend sue, you know, so there's no, you know, plant based is the way. I didn't learn that in school. I learned science with each dietary theory. And I like to say everyone's right. I mean, that's how I left school, that everyone's theory is right. It wasn't until eight years ago that my niche and passion really came with whole food plant based nutrition. And then my studies expanded from there.
Rip Esselstyn 00:30:54
Wonderful. All right, let's, let's talk about your coaching business because I think it's fascinating.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:31:01
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn 00:31:02
So tell, tell the PLANTSTRONG audience. What is your niche? Like you, you probably work with all kinds of individuals, but like, where do you feel like your specialty? Lies.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:31:18
Get ready. We're, we're bracing corporate executive men.
Rip Esselstyn 00:31:26
Incredible. And so why, why, how did that, how did that end up Being the case.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:31:40
It really started when I started working at the television station in Miami. This brave soul, the general manager hired me for basically the team there and I did some coaching for the staff and then I took him on and he's on my website, John Lebonia. And he lost over 60 pounds with me. He was a meat and potatoes man back then. Like I mentioned, I taught more vegetarian and we ended up all training for the Mercedes Benz corporate run. So it really started with John and then from there kind of moved after that. I had men and women I was coaching at the station, but then I ended up getting, you know, a few women one on one coaching clients in Naples. And then I had one gentleman come down from Los Angeles who was just here this weekend. He's been with me about eight years now.
Rip Esselstyn 00:32:43
Wow, that's. That says a lot about, about your, your, I think not only your coaching, but your ability to kind of really connect with somebody.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:32:53
Well, thank you. And actually I still speak with John Lebonia. He's kept his weight off. I think he lost a total of £60. Now. I keep sending more plant based things to him, you know, by text and stuff from the state TV station. But yeah, so Amir, who's also on my website, he was here this weekend and he, you know, he's just one of my favorite clients. He ended up telling all his friends back home when he had his results. I have a team, I have about four people on my team and we do heart rate conditioning. So we work and we work with Garmin. And so we ended up training Amir and his team in his business for a bike race and they all had great results and it just started moving in that direction with his friends. So.
Rip Esselstyn 00:33:51
Yeah, well, and, and because I've read your story and because you've shared, shared what happened with your father, you also feel like this is also a very healing process for you as well. Being able to coach some of these, you know, high powered executive men that are probably in certain aspects of their life, you know, a mess. Right. Especially their health, I would imagine. And how gratifying that must be.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:34:25
It really is. It's really gratifying to have somebody contact me and say, look, I want to drop 80 pounds. You know, I don't feel good. Super successful, you know, in their family, personal life and business and yeah, their health. I think part of it for a lot of my clients, they don't really. We look together, you know, I call it under the hood of the car, you know, really of what the blood work showing where Their hormone levels are like, there's so much to it. And it takes about a year working with me, minimum. And then people go on a maintenance plan once they lose the weight. But it is so rewarding to see somebody drop 10 pounds, 20 pounds, 30 pounds. I mean, we've had up to 100 pounds as you, as you've seen, you know, with your clients and customers. And it is so rewarding. I jump out of bed every day, Love what I do, especially now that I'm plant based.
Rip Esselstyn 00:35:30
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:35:31
And it's, it's such a humbling career. And I do think of my dad, you know, every day because my dad was so heavy when he, as I mentioned, when he passed. And I remember he'd be in these dark rooms, even though he'd be out in the world, but then he'd come home and eat at night and just be ashamed that he's eating and hide it. And I've been there, you know, myself. So it's great to work through all that with these gentlemen and even my female clients. So.
Rip Esselstyn 00:36:06
What do you think it is about you and your personality and your approach, your methodology that makes you a successful coach? This is your chance to brag on yourself.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:36:27
You know, that's not easy for me.
Rip Esselstyn 00:36:29
Well, but you always say, got to get out of your comfort zone. Let's do it.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:36:35
I'm here with you today. Of course I am. I like to. You know, I was telling a couple health coaches last week, I'm mentoring one specifically at Lululemon because I'm partnering with them the next this year. And I said, let's get you your first client. I said, but let me teach you first. And I'm going to help her. I said, you got to pretend like you're putting a piece of tape over your mouth when you coach. And so I would say I listen actively, more than talk. I don't give advice. And I really hear my clients, I really hear their struggle, what they're dealing with, just letting them vent, getting it out. You know, they don't need me for a diet they don't need me for. I can give them your book and they're good to go, you know, or a PDF of something. But it's really just having someone to listen for an hour of what they're dealing with and then they feel better and then they don't go eat the Oreos at night.
Rip Esselstyn 00:37:35
Yeah, you, when you started out, you mentioned that there was a book that kind of inspired you, and you use it now with some of your male, male, male Clients along with another one. What are those two books?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:37:53
This is where you get to brag. So my first book is your book.
Rip Esselstyn 00:38:01
Ah, my Beef with Meat. Wow.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:38:03
Yes. Yep. And I this one because the biggest challenge for, for all of my clients is getting off of meat. You know, chicken especially. But you know, this has been for me too. I'm an oat blood type again, going back to the blood types which I learned in school. I'm a hunter gatherer, so I really need kind of that feeling of a lot of beans or a lot of tofu or tempeh or just things that feel like I'm eating chicken. So I have found this book really helpful. And then also this is my favorite. Who I met at, at your, at my first retreat at your PLANTSTRONG retreat in 2017.
Rip Esselstyn 00:38:51
Aaron Spitz.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:38:52
Yep. So these are the two books that I recommend.
Rip Esselstyn 00:38:58
You mentioned. I want to go back to something you mentioned a couple minutes ago that you, you work with Garmin or you have, or your clients, maybe you have them wear Garmin and that way you can monitor their, their sleep, their exercise, their heart rates, all their vitals. How important has, have you found that to be as you're, as you're coaching these men and women, that relationship?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:39:25
Yeah, extremely important. I used to wear Garmin myself when I was racing, so I love their products. I'm now moving in the direction with them with Garmin Health, which is another division and more around the health aspect, especially with whole food, plant based nutrition and how that really changes, you know, our heart rate. Lower, higher, all of it. And, but we use the Garmin watches, we use the scale and now blood pressure cuff, which, which is interesting that I've, I've gotten to see over the last 15 years being in practice because we used to. I have two brothers that are with me in my company and one of them, Yarrow, who's my right hand man, he's been with me for nine years. So he writes the heart rate programs for our clients. We use training peaks as our platform and then we use Garmin the products. And it's great because our clients can't hide. We see everything. So if they didn't get a workout in, we know, right? Or they did, we know. And so we're every day in communication with our clients. We take on a certain amount of people per year and we just, we see their scale and you know, their weight. What we do each month is we pull reports for their doctors as well if they want that. But we go over it with our clients so they can see the changes in real time. And so it's made a huge difference because, you know, people lose weight and they feel good and you can see it. But when they can really, aside from blood work and see the changes and you can see the changes in the data, it makes a huge difference. It's accountable. They're accountable.
Rip Esselstyn 00:41:08
Do you also have them keep a food log? And if so, through what app or what methodology do you use?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:41:17
We don't.
Rip Esselstyn 00:41:18
Okay, so that, that sounds, that sounds very intentional.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:41:23
No food log, no counting calories for our clientele. I said to a client this morning, we know our clients don't even have a minute to go to the bathroom. So we help them find ways to, you know, order the food for them, whatever they need, ship it to them, you know, help them just get their workout in. They have family careers, so they're not going to sit there and be journaling. We tried it for a few years in the beginning, and it just, I don't even keep a food log. So I try and bring my, what I do and what Yaro does and, you know, what works for us. And it's worked really well because our clients don't want to write down everything.
Rip Esselstyn 00:42:08
Well, let me ask you this, because I, I, I agree, once you get the hang of it. Absolutely. But I find that so many people, especially in the beginning, they think they know how to do it right, and they're not, they're just slipping up left, right and center. And so to me, I find it's a nice way to kind of course correct along the way, especially the first couple months. What, what about taking a quick photo and just like sending off a photo as a text? No, you don't want them to mess with that either.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:42:39
Well, what we do is so we, I do a revisit form every week. So our clients, I'll meet with a client once, one hour each week. And so I will have them fill out a revisit form, which on the revisit form, it's a one pager. It has breakfast, lunch, dinner, and they will fill that out. I won't say every week they do, but if they don't, I have one printed, ready to go, and I help them, you know, I'll talk to that, talk it through with them. Yeah, So I do it that way. Now, pictures. We do have our clients take pictures. I have to remind them, like, take a picture of your dinner tonight. They're not ones that are like, thinking about, let me take a picture.
Rip Esselstyn 00:43:17
Right.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:43:18
Our client, you know, they have two Phones or on the airplane, their kids are calling, their team needs them. Whatever's going on, I get it.
Rip Esselstyn 00:43:30
So these are high powered executives. How do you deal with these huge executive egos?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:43:42
I don't think, I think I've only had one ego in 15 years. I don't really attract clients that have these high, big egos. I don't know if it's because they were heavy and they've been so uncomfortable and have gone through so much in their life. Whether people make fun of them or, you know, they've had so many struggles, they don't have the ego yet. And even, even after they lose all the weight, they're still really down to earth people. So I don't, I've only had like one lady who, you know, came across like, you know, one of these people that they want to be smarter than you, and that's okay. I just say, yeah, you know, more than me, that's fine. It doesn't bother me.
Rip Esselstyn 00:44:32
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:44:32
But I've been very fortunate to attract a certain type of client that. Yeah. I think a big part is they've struggled for so long with not feeling good that they don't have it. That makes sense.
Rip Esselstyn 00:44:47
Yeah. And what, what percent of the, of your clients would you say have come through word of mouth?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:44:56
99%.
Rip Esselstyn 00:44:57
Right. Well, it's the best kind, right?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:45:00
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn 00:45:01
You use the Garmin for heart rate. What have you found? Because it sounds like a lot of your clients, they're whining and dining. They're entertaining clients. I would imagine alcohol typically seem to fit into that lifestyle. And I don't do alcohol. Haven't for a long time, but I know people that do. It messes with their sleep, it messes with their resting heart rate when they wake up in the morning. Have you found that to be the case and do you try and dissuade them from doing alcohol?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:45:33
Yes, Most of them drink. They want to stop. So I work with them to help them with that. Yes. It, it disrupts everything. Their mood, their sleep, their. The way they're eating, everything, you know, their sex life, erectile dysfunction. And so I don't drink either. I might have one. I, I tell myself, you can have one a year because it really affects me, but I usually don't end up having it. And I know for me, if I, if I do have one drink, I get night sweats or I just don't feel good. So I work with my clients. I'm not very strict with my clients, and I think that's one of the things that has made me successful, I would tell you that. But to answer your question, with alcohol, I really try and have my clients completely get off alcohol.
Rip Esselstyn 00:46:38
Yep.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:46:39
Do they? Here and there. I have one client who's been with me, I think, seven years now, and he's been sober. He just celebrated six years. And I went to his first AA meeting with him in Los Angeles, and I'm just so proud of him. He stayed with it.
Rip Esselstyn 00:46:57
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:46:58
Yeah. The poison. We know that, right?
Rip Esselstyn 00:47:03
Yeah. It's every organ in the body.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:47:05
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn 00:47:06
So you say that. That being healthy is all about lifestyle choices around nutrition, which I feel like we've talked about exercise, relationships, careers, and then spirituality. So that's kind of a branch of this wheel or a pillar of it that I'd love for you to tell me about. What. What are your. Your thoughts and your beliefs when it comes to spirituality?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:47:41
So I grew up Jewish, and I went to Hebrew school, and I went to high school in Israel. And I don't practice Judaism today, but it was something that, in my early years, it really set a wonderful foundation for me. And I think later on in life, I started moving into more of the. Just. I would try meditation here and there, but it was more of a. You know, I went to Thailand, and so the Buddhist and all of that. But for spirituality for me, today is just taking time for myself. And this is something with self care that I teach my clients. Just. I think for my clients, it's. If they have a, you know, getting a massage, spirituality, it might sound kind of funny, but just having self, you know, care time, going out for a walk. And I would say that's more the spirituality piece. And then I bring in transcendental meditation, which I've been doing for since 2017. And I have. My clients go through TM and I work with teachers all over the country, and it's such a simple practice that it's something. I just started with a new client last week in Michigan, and she's already gone through tm. And it's designed for very busy, stressful people. So it's very simple. You just close your eyes, you have your mantra, and it's easy. There's nothing. No app. There's nothing to do. They have an app. But it's. I try and find simple things for people to get in touch with their spirituality, and that's. TM is part of that.
Rip Esselstyn 00:49:32
Yeah, I really. I like that. And it's amazing how many people I've come and come into contact with lately that tell me that they Try and do meditate. Right. Half an hour when they wake up and half an hour before they go to bed. And how it's just been a game changer for them. And I am still, I still, I.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:49:54
Was going to say, do you meditate?
Rip Esselstyn 00:49:56
I, I, you know, my, my meditation is usually in motion when I'm swimming or when I'm out for a walk or usually it's movement, it's not sitting still, which I need to do. I need it. I, I really don't have too many excuses except, you know, three young kids, a wife, career, and yeah, normally the thought of getting an extra half an hour sleep is really nice.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:50:25
I think you'd enjoy tm.
Rip Esselstyn 00:50:27
Yeah, Yeah, I do too. I do too. I just needed, I need to, like, commit. Do it.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:50:35
I'll support you in that.
Rip Esselstyn 00:50:37
Okay, good. Thank you. So tell me when you've, when you're bringing on a new client, do you let them know that, okay, this is how things are going to work and we're going to focus on these five aspects of your life. Do you say nutrition? Do you say, I want you to start leaning into whole food plant based. I want you to start exercising 30 minutes a day. Want you to start meditating. I mean, how does that work?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:51:13
I'm laughing because I had a client who was referred to me from another client, and he goes, I want to hire you. I want the results my friend had. But I'm not going vegan. Okay.
Rip Esselstyn 00:51:26
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:51:27
I said, okay, well, just know we are going to move in that direction. Are you okay with that? And we'll go slow because it will be, you know, it's about whole foods. And then he was like, oh, oh, okay.
Rip Esselstyn 00:51:43
Right.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:51:43
So I guess to answer your question, it depends. Everybody's different. And I have something called the circle of life that I use that I show different areas like you talked about. And we'll go through that and I'll have them take a test, a little quiz thing, which I mentioned I do a lot of. But again, everyone is coming from so many different avenues. When they start with me, the direction and the structure in the beginning is to get them a garment watch and get them a scale. So we have the tracking. So we always start there. They do before and after photos. I'll have them fill out a health history form so we have the background and a physical activity form for my guys to be able to start putting their program together with training peaks. So there is a system, I would say, for someone that comes to us with severe heart disease, I'm Going to ship them your dad's book, prevent a reverse heart disease, which I studied with your dad, his program last year, which I was so excited about.
Rip Esselstyn 00:52:58
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:53:00
And so it depends on the severity and what they're coming to us for if they want to get off seven medications. I'm going to say, look, before you hire me, we're going to go whole food plant based, no salt, oil, sugar. It's going to be strict. Can you do it? Because that's where you're going to get the results. And they'll say yes or no. So it's a small percentage of people that we work with that do whole food plant based. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn 00:53:27
Let's say you're, you're working with somebody and they have an awful week. They've fallen off the rails. They don't do anything quite right. What do you do to kind of get them back on track?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:53:40
I'll listen, I'll see what's going on, you know.
Rip Esselstyn 00:53:45
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:53:45
What's going on at home? What's going on with your wife? What's going on with the kids? What's going on at work? What are you stressed about? Did you meditate last night? Did you meditate this morning? Morning. Did you drink water? I'm a big juicer. I work also with Hippocrates in West Palm beach. So I love green juice. So I find green juice companies all over different locations for them. And I'll just go down the list of things. How was your sleep last night? Did you drink alcohol? Did you take a sleeping pill? You know, I asked all the questions very quickly to get to quickly. What's going on? Did you eat a lot of sugar last night? And I could pretty much. We know in a second. And they know. My clients know their bodies better than I do.
Rip Esselstyn 00:54:33
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:54:34
What do you think it is? What's going on?
Rip Esselstyn 00:54:38
You know, it almost sounds like. So we've got three electric cars and every one of them you can go in and find, see where the car is at any point in the day. Where they're, if they're driving, where they are, where they're parked, park. It almost seems like a little bit of an invasion, right?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:54:56
Sounds like a Tesla.
Rip Esselstyn 00:54:58
Well, there's, there's, there's, there's many that have that capability. But it sounds like you have that same, like, you know, you, you, you have the inside track into what's going on with these men and women, which is, which is, you know, it's great.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:55:15
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn 00:55:16
Let me ask you.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:55:17
I know because I, I was there, right you know, personally.
Rip Esselstyn 00:55:22
Yeah. Let me ask you this. This is so, so many of these. Let's just right now segment this into the high powered executive men that you're dealing with and for any of the listeners that also the women that are married to a high powered executive male or vice versa. But how important is it for you to connect with that spouse so that, that it's kind of a team effort.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:55:57
It's funny. Usually the wives will call me, we need you for my husband. So that's usually the word of mouth. Usually if it's not a friend of a friend, you know, a gentleman and his friend, it's usually a wife will call me and say, I need you for my husband. You know, he's a mess. But to answer your question, I don't interact with the spouses. I will give my client. You know, I might say, is it okay if I get your wife's email or your partner's email and send them some recipes for you for them to cook or the chef or somebody maybe from that perspective, if they're cooking. But as far as it's interesting, I actually coach the men to be, I don't like to use the word better, but hey, do you know your wife's love language? You know, is it acts of service? Is it, you know, physical touch? What is it? And I might have him go take a quiz with her. So I'm always like in the relationship area, finding ways for them to connect with their spouses with, with their wives more than it's something she's doing over there.
Rip Esselstyn 00:57:18
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:57:18
It's really about the guy and his body and, and how he's relating to his partner. Does that answer your question?
Rip Esselstyn 00:57:27
Yeah. Yeah. What is, what's the most difficult thing about being a health coach?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:57:40
Probably with the whole food plant based diet. I know it works. And sitting back when someone's not ready to go there fully and giving them the time to get there or not get there, that's probably the hardest part because I live it. And I'll be 50 years old in July. No meds, no Botox, nothing. I don't even think I have a filter. I may have a tiny one on here, but no. And my mom worked for a dermatologist, so I was never in the sun even when I raced. I always did things at night or early in the morning. But I feel, I wish I, when I was an ironman, I wish I was plant based. I probably would have gone professional.
Rip Esselstyn 00:58:35
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:58:36
You know, and I feel 20 years younger. @ my age, I just can't even believe the difference. So that's probably the hardest part. When people are on keto and not ready and just sitting back until they are right.
Rip Esselstyn 00:58:52
What is the best thing about being a health coach?
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:59:00
The best thing about being a health coach? That's a great question. There's so many, I think just the connection that I have with my clients. It's like a professional family. You know, they, they, they allow me into their lives, you know, everything they're dealing with and who they are, and they're just meeting me and they're just telling me their whole life story, and there's so much compassion. And I feel so honored, you know, that they're letting me in their life. And so that's probably the biggest thing for me.
Rip Esselstyn 00:59:45
Well, one of, one of your most. One of your great success stories just happened to be, if I'm not mistaken, your own mother. Right.
Michelle Joy Kramer 00:59:54
Oh, God, she drives me crazy. And I love her.
Rip Esselstyn 01:00:00
Victoria.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:00:01
Yes, Victoria. She'll be so happy you mentioned her name.
Rip Esselstyn 01:00:05
Yeah, well, it sounds like she's crushing it.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:00:09
She is, and it really has. I'm so proud of her. She's been whole food plant based for eight years now or nine years. She's, you know, stayed with it. It's brought a different level of a relationship with us. I feel like she's my health coach sometimes. She's always showing me new things and giving me things and. But she's a big fan of your food. And I remember when your burgers came out, she shipped me all these burgers. She was so excited. Before I even knew. So I'm really proud of my mom for. At her age, she's 76 and she had some blockage. It went away. She got off Synthroid. I mean, all these doctors told her it's her age, and I'm like, no, mom, just trust me. Give me a year. We're gonna do this together. And she did.
Rip Esselstyn 01:00:57
So do you have a coach in your life?
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:01:04
Oh, God, yeah. So many. Yes. I've always had a coach. Yarrow, who works with me, is my coach. He trains me every. I pay him just like a client. And I just, I'm gonna hire my personal trainer here in town and get back into strength training. So I have him, David. I have a business coach. I have a coach from Landmark. I have a mentor, Michelle, who's been my, my mentor 25 years. So I have a lot of people around me, and I feel like that's really what got me interested in becoming a coach. You know, I never would have made or completed Ironman Hawaii. My first time doing Ironman Florida without a incredible coach.
Rip Esselstyn 01:01:59
So do you have a coach I like? I don't. I don't.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:02:03
Oh, I'd love to coach you.
Rip Esselstyn 01:02:06
I need five. Five or six.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:02:08
How about just for tm?
Rip Esselstyn 01:02:11
Right. You mentioned three things that are, I think, important. One is courageous action. Two is to have a support team. And three is never give up. You do those three things, you can do almost anything. And I couldn't agree with you more. But what do you mean by courageous action? Give me an example.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:02:40
Having that phone call that you're afraid to have and you've been putting off. Having the conversation that you're putting off or procrastinating that you haven't had in 10 years with your wife. You know, something you've been hiding or something you're ashamed of or something. Something you're not happy with and you're afraid to say, you know, some type of communication. You know, buying a pair of running shoes and you're 80 pounds overweight, and you go to the running store and you buy a pair of shoes and you get outside. That's a courageous action. Going and getting your first colonic, which I'm a big fan of having. You know, sending my clients to different wellness centers to have a colonic. That's a big deal. No one wants to talk about it. It's like, you know, the penis book? No one wants to talk about that. But these are things that healed my IBS, you know, 20 years ago, colon hydrotherapy. So it's part of my practice. I bring it up. So these are courageous actions that are not comfortable, but you take action anyways. That is going to bring you greater health and vitality.
Rip Esselstyn 01:03:58
You have.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:03:59
Did I lose you at colonic?
Rip Esselstyn 01:04:00
No, no, no, no, no, no. It's hard to lose me. Yeah, I like. And I don't know who you said this to, but you told it to somebody. Maybe it was your mother, maybe it's one of your clients. You said, you're not going to fit in, you're going to fit out. Because they're like, oh, I bet I'm not going to fit in. And you're like, that's okay. You're going to fit out. Maybe until you fit in. But what did you mean by that exactly?
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:04:31
I actually first heard that line from my dear friend and mentor who started my nutrition school, Joshua Rosenthal. Yeah, that was his tagline in school. Like, it's okay that so many of you feel like you don't fit in. And I've always felt like I never fit in. I was always one of these, you know, even as a kid, you know, running at nine years old. And then I came out to my family as a gay woman when I was 18, which was a huge deal. Nice Jewish girl. I didn't know any gay people. I just shared with my mom and was very scared. That was a courageous act. And then, you know, moving into this direction with being an Ironman, I feel like that was fitting out. Who's doing that and then going whole food plant based. I mean, this has probably been the one big thing for me of fitting out. It's such a small percentage that are eating this way in S.O.S. you know, no salt, oil, and sugar.
Rip Esselstyn 01:05:37
Yeah. Well, you know what? You know what I love about all that I think the most is that you talk about how important it is to have an authentic relationship with yourself. And I think by by establishing an authentic relationship with yourself, you can then have these amazing, strong relationships with others. But it really does start with yourself. And I read that in your. Your story. You talk about that. So, I mean, kudos to you.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:06:10
Thank you. I know. I'm following you. You read everything. It's not an easy journey, you know, to get to that place, to be authentic. And I probably would not have shared all this with you, you know, 15 years ago. So it's really been a lot of work on myself. And that's the spirituality part to get here, be able to say this on national television.
Rip Esselstyn 01:06:39
That's right.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:06:40
National podcast, our new version.
Rip Esselstyn 01:06:44
Yeah. Yeah. Well, Joy. I'm gonna call you Joy. Is there anything that you would like to say before we wrap this up? I just. Let me say that it's been such a joy reading up on you, getting to know about your journey, your authentic self that is kind of now moving through this world and helping people through your incredible coaching practice. And I love the fact that you're. You're helping. Helping men who seem to. Who seem to be the most obstinate and stubborn when it comes to making these changes. And you have such an amazing presence and calmness and equanimity about you that it's easy for me to understand why your practice is thriving and why these powerful men are so attracted to your style.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:07:49
Thank you. I appreciate that. I do want to say how excited I am to be here with you. And I also want to say that when I first met you in 2017, it was in North Carolina at your retreat, and it was actually a birthday gift from my partner at the time. She said what do you want? Anything in the world. And I said to go to Rip Esselstyn's retreat.
Rip Esselstyn 01:08:17
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:08:18
And I went. And I remember meeting you. I'd sent some pictures to Carrie from back in the day, and I was. I just. I'm very inspired by you, you know, the fact that your background and everything you've done and everything you're doing, and, you know, I just want you to know it's such an honor to be here with you today. I'm constantly sharing your products and your books and just who you are as a man in the world. You know, it's not a lot of convincing because I'll say, take Rip's book. You know, get on this website. This is my coaching talk.
Rip Esselstyn 01:08:55
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:08:55
And they do. And because you're a triathlete, you know, I'm like, he's a triathlete. He was a firefighter. Like, they relate to you. So I want to thank you for what you're doing in the world. You've made a huge difference in my life, my mom's life, and my clients. So you're doing amazing work. That's what I want to say.
Rip Esselstyn 01:09:15
Yeah. Well, it's very nice of you to say all that. I. Yes, I very much appreciate it. And Joy, that was really, really kind of you. Thank you for those. Those nice words. I have so enjoyed spending the last hour with you and getting to know you, and you're my PLANTSTRONG sister.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:09:42
Thank you. I look forward to doing future things with you.
Rip Esselstyn 01:09:46
Yeah.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:09:47
I am going to follow up with you about tm. Don't think I'm a coach.
Rip Esselstyn 01:09:50
Okay. All right, you do that. Hey, can you. Can we finish with a virtual PLANTSTRONG fist bump?
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:09:57
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn 01:10:00
I can't see it. There it is. Bam.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:10:02
Maybe I should bring the garment in since we're out here.
Rip Esselstyn 01:10:05
Yeah. Yeah. All right, bye.
Michelle Joy Kramer 01:10:08
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn 01:10:12
For more information on Michelle and her coaching practice, visit michellejoykramer.com. I so appreciate her approach to coaching and habit change with all of her clients. Start small and then develop sustainable habits. And never underestimate. Underestimate the power of a mindfulness practice. Real change is possible with the right mindset support, and, of course, PLANTSTRONG plate. Thanks so much for listening and as always, always keep it PLANTSTRONG. The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey. If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones. You can always leave a five star rating and review on Apple podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode. As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr. And Ann Crile Esselstyn. Thanks so much for listening.
