#319: Kori McClurg - Beyond Willpower: Why Self-Compassion Is the Secret to Transformation
Go from self-loathing to self-love with Kori McClurg
What if the only thing standing between you and your true potential… is you?
Rip welcomes Kori McClurg, author of the new book Get Out of Your Own Way. Kori’s journey from self-loathing to self-love is one of courage, vulnerability, and the transformative power of plants.
Like so many, Kori spent years battling the weight of diet culture, mental health struggles, and a body that reflected her inner turmoil. But through honesty, self-compassion, and a shift to a whole food plant-based diet, she discovered a new path — one that nourished both her body and her spirit.
Here’s what you’ll take away from her story:
Vulnerability is power — When we open up about our struggles, we create space for healing.
Food is medicine — Shifting to a whole food plant-based lifestyle can dramatically improve health and vitality.
It’s not about willpower — Real change happens when we address the emotions behind our habits.
Self-compassion changes everything — Treating ourselves with curiosity and kindness opens the door to growth.
Start small, move with grace — Sustainable transformation comes from compassionate, incremental steps.
Kori’s story is a reminder that transformation doesn’t start with a strict diet or sheer determination — it starts with love. When we get out of our own way, we create the freedom to thrive.
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Full Episode Transcription via AI Transcription Service
I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
What if the biggest thing is you?
[0:04] What if the biggest thing standing between you and your best life is you? This week, I welcome Kori McClurg, author of Get Out of Your Own Way, who shares her powerful journey from self-loathing to self-love, and how a whole food, Plant Strong lifestyle helped unlock her true potential. We're going to have her inspiring story right after these words from PlantStrong.
[0:35] All right, loosen up. If your idea of a good time happens to include hiking in the mountains, eating outrageously plant-delicious food, and leveling up your health with a crew of like-minded rock stars, then I have got the perfect getaway for you. This November, join me in Black Mountain, North Carolina for our PlanStrong Retreat. It is six days of feel-good movement, expert-led inspiration, deep connection, and meals so good, you'll wonder how we did it without oil, sugar, or salt overload. It's camp for grown-ups, minus the junk food, plus the health transformation. Don't wait. This retreat always sells out. Head to liveplanstrong.com and click on events and save your spot before they're gone.
[1:33] Whether you're struggling to make peace with your body, trying to break free from unhealthy patterns, or simply need a dose of hope, today's episode just may be the message that you need to here today. My guest, Cori McClurg, knows exactly how you may be feeling. Once trapped in a cycle of self-loathing, alcohol abuse, poor health, and the pressures of diet culture, she found a new path, one fueled by emotional awareness, a mindset shift, and the healing power of a whole food, plan, strong diet. But here's the thing. Making lasting change isn't about simply having more willpower or more discipline, which is virtually impossible in the age of ultra processed foods, all the temptations swirling around that and distractions. The key is true understanding how your brain works, and then unleashing that knowledge and power that's already residing within you.
Meet Kori McClurg
[2:40] And that's what Corrie explains in her book, Get Out of Your Own Way. So stop relying on willpower and start feeling unstoppable with Corrie McClure.
[2:55] So, Kori , you're on the show because you have written quite an amazing book. I'm going to show it to people here. Here's what the cover is. Get Out of Your Own Way. And for those that can't see, there's a turtle on its back, kind of flailing, trying to right itself. And your subtitle is A Scientific Approach to Unlock.
[3:29] That's the nice way of saying it. Unlock your brain, fix your body, and unleash your power. You know, one of the things that I love about this book is you don't mince words. You know, you're kind of a no-nonsense type of person is my takeaway from this. And so I just love to dive into this book because there's so much wonderful information that I know all of our Plant Strong listeners can get from it. So what I'd love to start is I was reading the preface, the preface,
The Power of Vulnerability
[4:18] preface, preface, preface. Yeah. That's how you pronounce it, preface. Isn't that funny? When was the last time I said that word? You said that word out loud, yeah. And I was immediately just struck by the...
[4:35] Uh, brutal vulnerability and honesty that you laid out. And I'm, I can't imagine that was easy. No, it was not. Um, but you know, I just felt like it was really important to, you know, have people understand that you're not alone, right. That, that I've been there certainly, and that probably most of us have been in these like really dark places and feeling so ashamed of, you know, what we've done or what we're doing, our inability to change. And I just thought, you know, I just kind of got to come out swinging with that, you know, and just say, hey, this is it, right? Like, you know, I have struggled for a long time and got really low. And so fear not. There is hope for you. And even if you haven't been that low before, I can know your frustration.
[5:42] Yeah. Well, let people know how low. I want them to get a taste of kind of what you wrote in the preface. Preface yeah god look at me i've got it and um because i mean it it just like stopped me in my tracks and and and i'm happy to read a paragraph as well just to kind of you know kind of set the tone and get everybody in the in the right frame of mind sure um so i'm just going to read this paragraph it's the second uh paragraph of the preface i hoped alcohol poisoning or hypothermia would quietly snuff me out in the night. I was 34 years old and already on my third husband, who was also 20 years older than me and older than my dad. Mental health was an issue for me, but I was also physically unwell. I was only having a few decent days each month. For the other days, I had nasty PMS with severe cramps and bloating, or I was enduring my heavy, painful periods with more cramping and bloating. I was also anemic, which my doctor chalked up to my heavy periods. So I'll stop there. But what would you like to add to that?
[7:03] Um, yeah, it was, it just felt like this, this pit, right? Like you, I didn't know how to get out of it. It just felt like no matter what I did, it was, um, you couldn't, you can't climb out of the pit. And I remember trying, you know, so many things, like physically trying so many things. You know, I did the whole paleo and all of that business and trying to, and of course, now I know that probably compounded my physical problems.
[7:42] And then, and psychologically, just like, you know, what's wrong with me? You know, why can't I just be grateful? By all measures, I had a great life. I was successful in business and I had people around me that loved me. But still, I just felt so ashamed for not being grateful for all that, like still wanting other things. And then also when I would try to, you know, improve, particularly around around like my diet or losing weight and I couldn't do it or I would do it for a few days or whatever and then fall off the wagon. Right.
The Cycle of Self-Loathing
[8:36] And then that would just build up more shame of like, what's wrong with me? I can't, you know, do this. I can't get it right. I, you know, I can willpower through for a few days, but then I'm like back, you know, back in it again. And yeah, it just it just felt like.
[8:56] You can't get out of it. And I think that's where those feelings of just like, I'm not doing myself any good and I can't see, you know, when you're in the pit, you also can't see that you're doing anything for anybody else. You know, you just feel like it would just be easier if I just weren't here. And and so, you know, that's just where your mind goes is like, OK, how can we just how can we just get out of this? You know? Yeah.
[9:28] Yeah. Stop the pain. So you also mentioned how you just absolutely hated yourself. Oh, God. Yeah. I mean, it was just self-loathing. It's just you're just yeah, just this total self-loathing. And again, because I, in my mind, I just had all these metrics that I kept building up of, well, I tried this and I couldn't do it. I tried this and I couldn't, you know, stick to that. I've, you know, I had set the goal for losing, you know, 20 pounds. Like, I don't know how many times I had set that goal, right? And then, and never could get there. And so in my mind, it was just this building up of, of all of these reasons for why I wasn't you know, living up to whatever, you know, standard I had set for myself. Yeah. But did the people around you, like, I think that this was, I mean, I think you say here that you would have, you really would have wanted to kind of snuff yourself out, but you knew that your.
[10:30] Husband at the time wouldn't do a good job of taking care of Rita, your dog. Yeah. And so, I mean, just to think that, okay, you were hanging on by a thread.
[10:40] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, really. And it's funny you say that about the people around me. I mean, people read this now and they I've got I got so many text messages right after it came out and my friends were reading it and like we had no idea, you know, that you were this low. And, yeah, it really was like me being worried about my dog, why I couldn't leave. You know, I had to be here to take care of my dog. But so your friends, your husband at the time, parents that you were taking care of, did they realize that you were on the brink of snuffing yourself, that you were that miserable with yourself and your life? No. No, I don't, I don't think anybody had any idea. I mean, my, my in-laws for sure. I mean, they were, they were already struggling with, you know, dementia and stuff. So they, they had no idea. And then, and, you know, I just did.
[11:42] You know, it's very high functioning. You know, I still it was not in me to ever show emotion. I mean, I this is another thing I talk about in the book was it was, you know, my whole existence was to not have emotion. Right. It seemed to me that emotion was what was wrong with us, that if I could just be an android, then I would be so much more efficient and productive.
[12:14] And so just deny, you know? Yeah. Well, you talk about how your favorite character in Star Trek was Data, right? He's who you looked up to the most, right? Totally. Totally. Yes. Yes. I still kind of have a kindred, you know, feeling for data.
[12:34] So when, I know you're a veteran of the, I think it's the Air Force, right? And so when, like when, when were you part of the Air Force? Right after I got out of college. Yeah. So that was like really my first, you know, professional job was after I got out of college. I was trying to figure out, you know, what to do with my life. And I thought, you know, this is a good way to get launched in the service. Yeah. And so were you a pilot in the Air Force or afterwards? I wasn't a pilot. I got my pilot's license after I got out of the Air Force, actually. But no, I wasn't a pilot. My actual Air Force specialty code was a scientist. So I did a lot of aircraft testing and aircraft equipment testing. So I actually did get to fly a lot. My kind of my running joke was always like I flew a lot and I got to tell the pilots what to do, you know, because they were supposed to be flying to get my data. Right. And so when you're 34 and you're going through all of this on your third husband's.
[13:56] What were you, were you an entrepreneur at the time? What were you, what were you doing for work? At this point, I would have been working with, I think I had transitioned from, after I got out of the service, I continued to be a defense contractor for some years. And then at some point, my dad and I started talking about kind of his succession plan for a business that he had started some years before.
[14:26] And so I was like, yeah, I'll come learn your business and sort of, you know, just so I understand it at least. And then if, you know, you decide to transition out, you want to keep the business, like there's continuity and whatever. So I had moved to be to start working in that business. And I think, you know, that was probably part of the sort of feeling of despair is that in the military and even as a defense contractor,
The Role of the Air Force
[15:01] it's very clear to everybody what the mission is. You know, like everybody's on the same page. We all know what we're doing. We all know what we're there for. And so it's, there's no question. We just all like act in accordance with this mission. And then when I got into, you know, civilian, the civilian world, that does not exist. And so I remember working in that business and and being so struck by how so many people in the company did not know what we were there to do and like what purpose we served.
[15:40] And so I think that was hard. I think that was hard to be around. And it took me a while to sort through what are we doing? What is not just in a macro sense, but in a micro sense, like how do we fit in here?
The Journey to Writing
[15:57] Um and and then just to be around a lot of people that don't understand what we're what we're doing you know why we're all working toward this um so i think that was for sure part of um just that you know one more thing kind of piling on um yeah yeah it was a it was tough well um let's take a step back for a sec um so this this book came out last year right uh officially came out early this year. You're right. You're right. Yeah. 2025. And, you know, I think you, you wrote this book so that people can better understand how their brain works, uh, how to fix our bodies. And then we can finally kind of arrive at this place where we can unleash our power. Exactly. And so, um.
[16:51] Like, why did you finally in 2025 decide to write this book and put it out to the universe? What was it like? It's a lot of work to write a book. So something must have really compelled you to put this thing out there. Yeah, yeah. As you will know how much work it is. Um, yeah, I think, um, I think I felt like I had finally, like, put a bunch of pieces together, um, that, you know, for many years, um, you know, to your credit and, and, and others in the whole food community, I had learned so much. And I had learned what, you know, was the healthiest diet and even, you know, how to implement that. And yet I was still failing at that. And so whenever I, when I learned about another kind of, you know, psychological methodology, then things came together for me.
[17:59] And I kind of felt like, I feel like I'm kind of in a unique position here, right? To like have brought a few things together and, you know, bringing these things together helped me. So I feel like maybe I have a unique perspective in this and why don't I just see if I can kind of, you know, organize it all in a succinct fashion and then, you know, put it out there and see if it's helpful to anybody else. Maybe this isn't the right time to ask the question, but I'm going to ask it. What does arrive mean to you? When you finally arrive, which is what I think you're asking your readers to get to that point.
[18:46] Yeah. I mean, the arrival to me is, and kind of the The reason that I organized the book the way that I did. Kind of my whole thesis is that so many of us spend so much time and energy and stress, you know, concerned about our health, right? Whether it's your mental health or your physical health, like you're just investing so much in that. And it doesn't need to be that way. And I feel like the reason that, you know, and I feel like even though you're spending so much time on this thing, like most of us have something else that we care about, like this little fire inside of us, right? That's kind of just, you know, barely kept alive.
[19:33] And what gets in the way is like all this time and anguish that we've spent on our health. And so the idea being that if you can, if you can, you know, get past that, then now you can sort of let that, that little flame, you know, really grow into, you know, unleashing your power, unleashing, you know, yourself onto the world and the thing that you really care about and bringing all of your unique talents and skills and perspectives to the world.
[20:06] And so that's really a rival to me is that we've been able to overcome this, you know, this thing, this illness that really the modern environment has put on us. And once we can unleash ourselves from that, then it's kind of like Katie bar the door, right? Because we're not spending so much time and energy on just what shouldn't be an issue at all.
Understanding Your Brain
[20:33] Yeah. Yeah. Good, good, good point. So you've broken the book up into three parts. The first part is really around the brain. The second part is around the body. And the last part is around power, right? Unleashing that power. Let's dive into the brain and mindset. And, you know, for starters, I think you you say that willpower and discipline aren't the keys when it comes to kind of what drives sustainable change.
[21:06] And so what is, like, what is the key to maybe the correct mindset that drives sustainable change in your opinion and your research?
[21:20] Yeah, so it really all comes to how do you want to feel about something? So willpower is all about our behavior, right? It's all about us being focused on what is our behavior and what do we want it to be? And the reason that that's, you know, we know from other research, from lots of research that willpower is short lived, right? We can only exert that for so long. And so and the reason is, is that you're fighting what you're fighting other thoughts and other desires, other feelings when you are trying to employ willpower. So the idea with this approach is that, first of all, we have to be in a position where we can get in a curious space, where we can let other information in. The first step in doing that is to like set down the shame that we feel about our behavior. So so often we get caught up in this shame cycle of, you know, I can't I can't get myself to do what I want to do. And so, you know, like it's, you know, to to stop.
[22:36] You know, drinking or to stop, you know, eating Cheetos or whatever. And so then I struggle. I can't stop doing that. Well, now I feel more shame because I can't stop myself from eating, you know, the bag of Cheetos. And so what do I do to console myself about my behavior? Well, I eat the Cheetos again, right? Because that's what obviously I gravitate toward to make myself feel better. And so while we're caught up in this shame, you're very little is going to be able to get in, right? So then we want to think about, instead of thinking about behavior, let's think about how we want to feel about this thing, right? So, you know, I want Cheetos to be irrelevant in my life. I don't even want to think about Cheetos anymore, right? That's really what I want my goal to be. And the reason this is important is that because we're humans And because we've evolved the way that we've evolved over millennia is that we do everything based on how we feel, right? Our feelings are our motivators for everything. So, you know, we're never going to be able to just willpower our way through something if we have a conflicting feeling about it. You know, like, I really want to give up Cheetos, but I love Cheetos. You know, they make me feel so good when I eat Cheetos.
[24:02] So until you get to that space of being able to set down the shame and then start to understand how do I want to feel and addressing how you want to feel about it. Then, you know, it's going to be this constant cycle of trying to employ willpower and then, you know, feeling badly because the willpower didn't last.
[24:25] So then you're saying the best way to kind of rewire your brain is not through willpower or discipline, but by kind of searching your feelings, Luke? Yeah, it's really about becoming aware of them, right? Like, what is happening for you? You know, being aware that you're feeling the shame, being aware what's happening when you want to eat the bag of Cheetos, you know, what's happening then? So the first step is awareness, for sure. The second step is now we have to start understanding what's driving those feelings. For sure, there is a huge component of this evolutionary drive that we have to eat the most calorically dense thing in our environment. We have that. And so there's no point in feeling shame about that. That is the nature of you being a human. The thing that you can start to become aware of is the fact that that's not the problem. You being a human is not the problem. The modern environment is the problem, right? This is a unique situation that we find ourselves in, in all of human evolution. And so that is what we can turn our attention toward of how are we, you know, how can we support ourselves in this modern environment?
Liminal Thinking Explained
[25:49] And, like, start also working through this once we've gotten curious about how we're feeling.
[25:57] Now we can start to explore, like, what's coming up for me in these times? You know, like, for a lot of us, it might be, well, if I have, if I get healthy, I start making changes in my diet. What is my spouse going to think about that? You know, what are my kids going to think about that? What, you know, will it be awkward at the next family event? Like a lot of times we're experiencing these things and we're not totally conscious of it. You know, we just kind of have these liminal thoughts going on. And so part of the process is to just like start, you know, bringing this up. And part of, you know, my job is to help people to bring it up, right? So like, let's bring it to the surface. Let's think about, you know, how will that feel? And then once you, you know, get in touch with that, you know, is it true, right? How can we explore whether those ideas are true or not once we've consciously thought about them? Well, one of the things that I thought was interesting is you mention in your book under the phase one where you're talking about the brain that you are not your thoughts. That's right. And that, to me, I had to like sit and really try and understand that. Yes. My question to you is, if we're not our thoughts, what are we?
[27:27] Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah. I mean, the idea of you are not your thoughts is that because, and this can go like super philosophical. There's books written on this, right? Yeah. You're trying to create some separation between, because we can observe our own thoughts, well, that means we aren't them, right? So if I can sit here and watch something else, then that thing isn't me. You know, I personally like to believe that, you know, we are just these like...
[28:11] We're just these beings with good intentions. We're just trying to survive in the world, and at the base of it, we're trying to meet the evolutionary goals of propagating our species, right? And so the fact that we can think these conscious thoughts is just a part of that. And the fact that we can observe them means that we don't have to own them. You know, I think so many times people get they have a thought and they think, oh, my gosh, does that mean I'm bad or does that mean I'm good or does that mean I'm, you know, just because you have a thought and the thought could be coming from, you know, 50 years ago. Right. I mean, that thought could have come from something a kid said to you, you know, and it it doesn't mean that that's you. It just means that it it's it's a wire, right? It's a wire getting connected in your brain. I really like that a lot.
[29:11] And one of the things that I've started doing is meditation. And you're right. You can observe your thoughts and like, wow, why did that pop up? And why am I thinking about that? But it's really cool to actually be the observer of yourself. Yeah, exactly. I mean, the whole idea is just to approach yourself without judgment. Just observe. Just be curious. It doesn't have to be good or bad. You have a chapter called Thoughts Below the Surface. And I think this might be the one where you mention how liminal thinking is key to understanding yourself. So can you please enlighten the PlanStrong audience? What is liminal thinking? Yes. And why should we all understand it?
[30:01] So liminal thinking. So Dave Gray has this great book called Liminal Thinking, and he really does a deep dive into it. But the whole idea and he uses this great metaphor. So we've probably all most people have heard the story of like, you know, three blind men who are like touching an elephant and they're all trying to like figure out what it is. Right. And like, you know, the the one touching the side of the elephant is like, oh, my gosh, this is a big wall, you know, and the other one like touching the trunk is like, oh, it's a fire hose or whatever. And and so they're all coming at it right from their perspective. They they can't see the whole picture. They can just see their part. And so that this is a great.
[30:47] Um, this is a great way to think about how we all stumble through the world. We're, we're merely approaching it from this very unique perspective that we have. And often this perspective we have is created, not often, every time this, this perspective we have is created from all of the experiences that you've had, all of, you know, your upbringing from.
[31:13] You know, the culture you live in. And so these things, these, Dave kind of has a, he uses like a pyramid, a building block kind of analogy for that. Like there's all these things, these levels that you're standing on and you think that you're standing on the ground. You think you're standing in reality, but actually you're, you're not really standing on reality. You're standing on this, you know, high pyramid that is all built up from your experiences, from, you know, your childhood, your culture, your, you know. And so the idea being that once you – this is all going on in your head and you don't even realize it, right? You're thinking that, you know, what you could do or couldn't do or like what's good and what's bad. And you're just making these like snap judgments and you're not conscious that you're doing it. You know, oftentimes our liminal thoughts really are like a feeling, you know, you'll be in a situation and you'll kind of like, I don't like this or, you know, this gives me a little stress or whatever. And all of that is like your liminal thoughts. It's just this stuff that's kind of going on underneath the conscious level.
[32:26] And, you know, if you sat down and think about it a little bit, yeah, you can like bring that stuff up. But until you become aware of the fact that you're touching the side of the elephant, you're not going to like be able to have the perspective that, hey, I might be touching an elephant. Well, so what's what is the best?
[32:43] In your, like, research, what's the best way for us to get in tune with that liminal side of ourselves? Yes.
[32:54] I mean, it kind of just comes back to this whole awareness is the first step, you know, that you have to be aware of the fact that as you go through your day, and I even, you know, I have this exercise that I have people do, is just, like, set a timer. On your phone and like every hour, just like jot down maybe a word or two about how you're feeling, like what's going on in your body, you know, what thoughts are coming up. Because that's the only way you're ever going to get it is like, if you're not aware of it, you're never going to, you know, most of us go around. And for good reason, this is also, you know, evolutionarily explainable. We mostly go around sort of cut off from our bodies. We sort of go around cut off from our emotion because we're just trying to get a task, you know, completed. And there's good reason for it, but also to really, when you want to make changes, you got to start getting aware of where, you know, those feelings that are coming up. And once you start becoming aware of it, then you can start questioning and trying to understand better. But until you make the choice to like, okay, I need to feel what's happening. You know, what, am I uncomfortable in this moment? You know, Am I happy in this moment? Whatever. Do you think the best way to delve into that is...
[34:18] To do work through books or through, you know, somebody that kind of is masterful at that? Yeah. I mean, it kind of depends on the person. You know, I, it's like, it's kind of like with, you know, adaptation to a plant-based diet, you know, some people have had major life events and so they make a change, you know, on a dime, right? Because they've had something happen to them and they get it. They do it immediately. And then other people, it's like a slow walk, right? Like they make little changes every day and it might take a few years. So yeah, I mean, I wrote the book because I thought, you know, even just having some experience, even that amount of knowledge would be helpful to somebody. But also, you know, I also created like a whole program for that very reason of like, you know, sometimes you just want like the day-to-day support and you want the day-to-day kind of challenge of that, you know, a coach who's like giving you kind of that daily education and that daily reiteration of the principles.
Breaking Free from Diet Culture
[35:28] I want to move on from that topic to the diet culture that we're currently living in. And, you know, you dive pretty deep into this, the endless cycles of kind of diet and deprivation.
[35:45] You yourself have, you know, you've seen the light, right? I think that you've embraced a whole food, plant-based diet. I'd love to hear your journey around body, diet, and how you've landed where you've landed. Mm-hmm.
[36:08] Um, yeah, I mean, it's been a long, a long road. I, you know, years, years ago, well, honestly, even before that, when I was in college, I read Diet for a New America and, you know, stopped eating meat then. And, and I actually think it's my story is kind of an interesting case study in that.
[36:29] But, you know, when I read Diet for a New America, there was no internet, right? We had like dial-up systems and stuff. And so for a long time I went, you know, I didn't eat meat. I didn't really know what, I don't think I really knew what vegan was or like, you know, any of the health aspects. But then as I got progressed in my professional life, it was so isolating to not eat meat. I mean, you would go to a restaurant and there would be, no, maybe iceberg lettuce salad might be what, you know, the option was in those days. And so I just thought, I must not get this, right? I must not understand, you know, that this is really okay and this is really what we need to do. And so for some time I went back to eating meat and then it was finally, I don't know, 12, 13 years ago that I watched Forks Over Knives. And at that point, you know, when we had the internet and everything and I could get more educated, you know, after I saw the movie, then I was like, is this real? You know, and just digging into it more. But then I still struggled. I mean, that was kind of what I was talking about in the book. I started learning more.
[37:47] About diet. And I did, I improved my diet once I stopped, you know, eating meat and any animal products. All of the, all of my, you know, menstrual cycle issues went away, you know, just within a month or two. So I knew like, hey, I'm onto something here. This is real. And then, but then I just struggled with, you know, I still couldn't meet my weight loss goals. I'd still like go back to kind of vegan junk food and, and I was still drinking alcohol. And I'm just like, you know, and knowing that none of this is good for me. And yet I still, you know, would kind of come back to it. And it wasn't until I learned really from Annie Grace and This Naked Mind, she's focused on alcohol, but really what was intriguing to me was this whole idea of having a goal around your emotion and how you want to feel about something. When I started getting that, and in fact, I enrolled myself in one of her programs because I was like, I'm going to re-engineer this so I can apply this to food because I think, you know, this has such wider applicability. Luckily, I didn't have to re-engineer it. She ended up offering a coaching program.
[39:13] You know, become a certified coach program so I could actually, you know, learn it straight from her instead of having to reverse engineer it. Um, and yeah, so after that, it was like, I could do the work to finally get, you know, what my values are. And the fact that, you know, this, that if that this other stuff is poison, you know, that, that why would I, why would I ever put something in my body that doesn't promote my health? You know like once i did yeah i mean that's really what you do that's really why you do it is is and and maybe it's for a whole bunch you know other reasons like to yes get some altered state of mood or to appease you know your social circle because you're afraid of being um isolated from them you know there's there's probably a lot of reasons um but it wasn't until yeah i dug into that stuff and really um um just was able to to like feel good about the fact that this is the choice that i'm making for myself and why would i ever do anything other than that you know like i always use this analogy of of like.
[40:32] You know, we we don't you know, none of us have has to like we don't have to do battle with ourselves to like not drink bleach. You know, we don't we don't have to. And so so why why do we struggle with that, you know, in these other areas of our lives? And so often it's because of these liminal thoughts or because it's so acceptable in our society to drink alcohol or to eat the junk food or to whatever. And so really you can get to a point where you don't do those things like you don't drink bleach. You don't have to think about it. You know, I don't have to think about not drinking Blakes, and I don't have to think about not eating something that doesn't
Embracing Whole Food Plant-Based
[41:20] promote my health goals. Yeah. So what does your food look like these days? If you had to describe to somebody, you're sitting next to them on an airplane, and they're like, oh, nice to meet you, Kori. You're pulling out a whole wheat sandwich with kale and hummus. What's that about? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I do a totally whole food, plant-based diet. I also happen to not do wheat because I just happen to have celiac disease. But I encourage people to eat wheat. Don't not eat wheat because I don't eat it.
[42:00] Yeah, and so I don't eat oil. I have to – I don't eat any of the SOS in general. I'm not going to say it doesn't get in like when you ask for something at a restaurant and you know it comes back and it has some oil on it or something. I'm sure that stuff happens. But when I'm in control of my food, I don't eat that. And yeah, I mean it's great. I have to I personally have to be cautious with nuts, for example, you know, super calorically dense and the weight will be on so fast, you know, if I if I indulge in. So are you, are you, are you currently at your weight and health goals? Health goals for sure. I would say, you know, the more I dig into like the longevity stuff, I think I could stand for my BMI to be a little lower for longevity. Um, so, you know, I'm, I'm still working on that stuff. And, um, and I like to experiment with that stuff, you know, like, um.
[43:08] You know, like not eating after, you know, a certain time in the afternoon or something and just understanding how that affects my sleep and and and then and then subsequently how that affects my like if I sleep better, am I am I eating less during the day or if I just stop eating at a certain period of time? You know, do I notice that I'm losing weight from that or, um, so yeah, I think in those last, um, you know, those last few longevity pounds, I'll talk, I'll call it, um, you know, I'm still experimenting with that stuff. Yeah, that's really interesting. Um, I was, I was talking to somebody the other day and they're like, oh, if I eat anything, like within an hour and a half of when I try and go to bed, I just can't sleep well. And I could eat a big bowl of cereal with fruit, and then 10 minutes later, I'd be sound asleep.
[44:04] It doesn't affect me, but it's funny how that's kind of very individualized. Totally. So you mentioned the BMI, and it sounds like you really – and I know one of the things to me that's so impressive about this book is everything is backed by science.
Surprising Research Insights
[44:23] You, you know, you really, you really made an effort to make everything science backed. And so the question is, did you have any like surprising research insights that then changed your approach to health and any coaching you're doing?
[44:45] Yeah, I mean, I think probably the most surprising stuff to me is around the psychological elements. You know, I think that it's so pervasive, you know, you're talking about diet culture, and I think it's so pervasive in that culture that willpower and discipline, you know, is the way to make changes, to make behavioral changes. And really, the science doesn't support that. The science supports that, you know, having compassion for yourself is a huge factor in being able to make long-term sustainable change. And so, and that's, you know, that's kind of counter to everything that we are exposed to. You know, we think we're supposed to, like, be hard on ourselves and, you know, sort of, like, have this drill sergeant kind of mentality with ourselves.
[45:33] But that's not what the science shows. The science says, you know, that compassion and, like, willingness to give it another go is what is successful. So I think those were the things to me that were more, that were really eye-opening. You know, I think as I had been so many years kind of getting more and more educated and diving into the science around the diet itself, that most of that was probably kind of unsurprising to me. Some of the time-restricted eating stuff is very surprising and super interesting, I do think. And so many people get it wrong, you know, time-restricted eating, not late. You need to do time-restricted early. Some of that stuff is really interesting.
The Importance of Compassion
[46:25] Yeah. Well, you mentioned, you know, compassion is something that's very important for kind of long-term success and sustainability. I'd like to talk for a sec about kind of lasting change and empowerment around that. And what if my mindset going into, let's say that I am, you, Kori, have convinced me that I'm going to go from the keto diet, carnivore diet, to a whole food plant-based. But I feel like, oh my gosh, this change, it's going to be so overwhelming. So how do I change my mindset from this is going to be overwhelming and I have no idea like how to get up, get out of my own way and start this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, the first the first step is having that awareness of.
[47:27] That your feelings are valid, like feeling overwhelmed is absolutely valid. You know, there's nothing wrong with you because you feel challenged, because you feel stress or struggle. And that really understanding, digging into it, you know, and just getting some, you know, having compassion for yourself, the fact that you have those feelings, and then And then trying to have some curiosity around it, around, you know, why does it feel stressful? Why does it feel overwhelming? You know, and also just having this acceptance of there's a reason that you want to eat these calorically dense foods. And that is just the nature of being a human being. And that, you know, also having some solace in the fact that that will go away. Right. That once you eventually kind of adopt a healthier diet, that draw toward those foods will eventually go away. But yeah, just just knowing you're a human being. Right. You have these feelings for a reason. It's kept us alive for two million years. Right. And there's a reason that you have these feelings and there's nothing wrong with you because you have them.
[48:43] What's your opinion on this like all or nothing philosophy that so that so many of us, I think, have? Yes, that's man. I was in that trap forever. Um and i think it you know part of it kind of comes back to this whole compassion thing in that if we we mess up once then we're bad right we're bad because we messed up and so to overcome the feeling of being bad then we like indulge in this stuff even more um but no i mean i i um And I personally like coach people in like, let's just do this one incremental step at a time because it is overwhelming. You know, I'm asking you to completely change your diet. And oh, by the way, everything you think about diet and the way that you're going to relate to everybody and, you know, owning the fact. I mean, for some people, just owning the fact that you have a value of health, that's a hurdle for some people, right? I mean, if you come from a culture where, you know, it's like barbecue every weekend and, you know, beers every night, like that's a that's a huge step to just say I value my health and I'm going to like own my diet in a way that so I can be healthy.
[50:13] So, yeah, I think it's just, it's kind of back to that whole...
Overcoming All-or-Nothing Mindset
[50:18] Compassion, right? That's the first step, and awareness and feeling less judged. Well, I heard you say in relation to diet that, you know, you're whole food plant-based, you're doing the no oil thing, you're also SOS, you know, so salt, oil, sugar-free for the most part. But I heard you say that, you know, you do the best you can, but when you're out somewhere, Right. And some sneaks in, you know, you just, I mean, what are you, what are you going to do? Right. Right. So that to me is nice to hear you giving yourself a little bit of grace and compassion around that. And I think that to be a human being and, you know, if you're doing this 90% fantastically well, give yourself a huge pat on the back. Right. No, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And we, yeah. And we, you know, we kind of have a saying around here And, you know, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. It can be all or something. And don't beat yourself up, right? Exactly. Yeah, 100%. So I want to finish, Kori, with some rapid fire questions for you. And the first one is, what is the one habit that you absolutely 100% swear by for your own well-being? And you have to pick one.
[51:46] That's tough.
[51:50] You know, I really feel like taking a walk or a run and like being outside. To me, if I can't be outside during the day, I just feel like nothing else works. Nothing else works. And it affects so many other things. You sleep better whenever you've been exercising and being outside. Isn't that the truth? And you live in Colorado, is that right? Yeah, yeah. Do you have nature galore where you live? Oh, yeah. I mean, just in my neighborhood, we have some great trails and stuff. And we don't even have to drive anywhere to get in a good hike. I'm sorry, Kori. Yeah, I know. I know. That's fabulous. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, you're right. There's nothing like taking a forest bath. Totally. Yeah.
[52:46] Okay. If you could debunk one health myth forever, what would it be? Oh, my gosh. The whole protein thing. It drives me insane. I can't tell you how many times I see people eating this big plate of nasty stuff because they think that getting their protein is going to make them healthy. Of course, we've all been asked, I don't know how many times, about where do you get your protein? Yeah. So, yeah. Exactly. Give the PlanStrong audience an idea. What does your morning routine look like and feel like?
[53:29] Well, I get up pretty early, you know, like five or so every morning. And depending on the season, you know, because we're pretty far north in Colorado, in the wintertime, we might not go out and walk immediately. Cause it's still dark at that hour. But yeah, I usually get up pretty early. I have some tea in bed. I, I am not, I just immediately wake up person. I need a little, I need a little, you know, like time to get my full consciousness. But yeah. And then, you know, take the dogs out and get in a jog or a walk or something with them. And then I come back and make everybody breakfast, the dogs and me. And yeah, that's kind of the morning change. Now, you're remarried, right? Yeah. You're married. Good. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. And you like this guy? Yeah. Yeah. He's pretty good. Yeah. Good. Good. So give me an idea. What is your evening routine look like?
[54:39] Evening is, again, almost always another walk with the dogs. And then I just try to, like, start – I really like to just get things quiet and really get things, you know, ready for bed. Personally, you know, I like to take a shower and just, like, really get myself into, like, doing all those things that promote good sleep because sleep is one of those things. It's right up there with being outside as far as pivotal for my health. I mean, I can tell, you know, if I've gotten eight versus seven and, you know, God forbid it was less than seven, it's not going to be a good day. So, yeah. So I'm like all about like doing everything. And I try really hard not to look at my phone, you know, after I've walked the dogs and I'm coming back and getting ready to bed. I do read. I really like to read at night. So I just have like a little light, little book light that I read by. And then this usually doesn't take too long and I'm out. That's great. And so I think it's really interesting the way you start the book.
[55:51] With this story of self-loathing and hatred and, you know, how you're on the brink of snuffing yourself out, right? And then you end the book with a whole thing on what would I do if I loved myself? I love the contrast between the two and how they're literally bookended. So I would love for you to end this great conversation, like talking about the power of loving yourself and why we should ask ourselves that question. What would I do if I love myself?
[56:31] Yes, exactly. I mean, I phrase it in that way because I know that for a lot of people, that's super uncomfortable to say I love myself, you know. And so you don't have to travel that whole bridge in one fell swoop. You can just ask yourself, well, if I did love myself, what would I do, right? So in this moment, what would I do? I would not eat the crap. I would eat what's health-remoting. I would go for a walk when I'm stressed out. I would, you know, there's all the I would, you know, not continue to go to my family's barbecue. But, you know, if it's bothering me, like there's so many things where we just asked ourselves, you know, what if I love myself in this moment, what would I do? And then it's usually a pretty simple answer usually comes pretty quick.
[57:26] Yeah. You know, one of the things you say here is, so if I love myself, would I feel down because my book draft wasn't done?
The Power of Self-Love
[57:35] You say, no, I'd be ecstatic about how much I have accomplished. I'd be proud of what I'm working on. If I love myself, would I eat that junk food to feel numb about my upcoming product launch, blah, blah, blah. So yeah, it's really, it's really great. Yeah. Well, there she blows, everybody. Get out of your own way. Gosh, what a fantastic cover. How did you guys come up with that cover? Yeah, I had this great graphic designer and she just like totally got it. You know, I was. Oh, yeah. This is exactly what that feeling is. Yeah. Kori, a couple of questions for you here.
[58:15] Where can people go to get this book? Is there like Amazon or and then also where can they go to follow you? Are you on any of the social media platforms? Yes. So the book is on Amazon. It's in the Kindle version or the, you know, or the paper copy. But always you can just go to the probably the easiest thing is go to my website because everything is there. And I'm trying to get the book up on some other, you know, platforms. So if you just go to KoriMcClurg.com, then you can sort of, you know, see everything there. And if there's other options, I think I'm going to do the audio book. But that's, you know, another project down the down the pipe here. Can I give you a suggestion? Yes. Do it. Awesome. Do it. You won't regret it. Yeah. Yeah. Good. That's a good move for sure.
[59:10] Well, Kori. Thanks for joining me on the PlantStrong podcast. Thank you so much. It's so good to talk to you. Yeah. Can you give me a virtual PlantStrong fist bump on the way out? Oh, right on. Totally. Boom! PlantStrong, Kori. Absolutely. Totally. Kori is living proof that when we get out of our own way and fuel ourselves
Kori McClurg's Journey
[59:35] with plants, there is no limit to what we can achieve. If her story resonated with you, please be sure to check out her brand new book, Get Out of Your Own Way. It is a terrific guide to breaking free from old patterns and stepping into your strongest, most authentic self. I'll be sure to put a link to that and all of our free resources, events, and tools that will keep you inspired and thriving on your own journey in today's show notes. So until next time, stay strong, stay curious, and always, always keep it plant strong.
[1:00:15] The Plant Strong podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey. If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones. You can always leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode. As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr. And Anne Crile Esselstyn. Thanks so much for listening.
