#339: Jackie Akerberg - Why Progress Beats Perfection Every Time
Jackie Akerberg is Jackfruitful.com
What does it look like to live plant-based without perfection — and still thrive?
In this episode, Rip reconnects with Jackie Akerberg, plant-based chef, content creator, and community builder, for a wide-ranging conversation about food, growth, relationships, and finding joy in the kitchen. Jackie shares how going vegan transformed her health, how her social media presence exploded through authenticity and community, and why embracing “best possible options” (or BPO) can be the key to long-term success.
From viral layered salads and squash obsessions, to navigating a non-vegan relationship with respect, this conversation is packed with practical cooking tips, mindset shifts, and real-life wisdom for anyone curious about plant-based living — whether you’re all-in or just getting started.
Key Takeaways:
Progress beats perfection. Jackie and Rip emphasize that long-term health comes from consistency, not rigid rules. “Imperfect” plant-based choices still move the needle in the right direction.
Great food wins hearts. Delicious, satisfying plant-based meals — not shaming or pressure — are the most powerful way to inspire others, including non-vegan partners and friends.
Protein doesn’t have to be extreme. A varied plant-based diet easily meets protein needs for most people, without chasing exaggerated intake trends or supplements.
Kitchen confidence matters. Simple techniques — steaming tempeh, pan-searing tofu, using frozen produce, even microwaving strategically — can make healthy cooking faster, safer, and more accessible.
Food is connection. Whether hosting friends, traveling, or building community online, Jackie sees cooking as a way to make people feel welcomed, nourished, and included.
Purchase Jackie’s latest e-book: High Protein Made Simple
Episode Resources
Watch the episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/zJj_lpLiYco
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Jackfruitful.com website: https://jackfruitful.com/
Follow Jackie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jackfruitfulkitchen/
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Episode Transcript via AI Transcription Service
I'm Rip Esselstyn and you're listening to the Plant Strong Podcast. This week on the Plant Strong podcast, I am joined once again by Jackie Akerberg, AKA Jack Fruitful.
She's a plant based cook, creator and community builder sharing how putting plants at the forefront of her plate transformed her health, her mindset and her approach to food.
This is a long overdue Catch up with this rising Brock star and we talk about embracing imperfection, navigating a non vegan relationship, and why simple kitchen techniques can make plant based eating easier and more joyful.
If you're looking for inspiration, practical cooking tips and a refreshing reminder that progress beats perfection, then stick around because it's coming up right after this message from Plantstrong. I want to speak to you directly for a moment.
Over the last 16 years, I have literally watched thousands of people arrive at our Plan Strong retreats carrying all kinds of stress, confusion and a quiet hope that something possibly could change. And the Plan Strong team will tell you we see a remarkable shift during the course of the week.
It doesn't happen overnight, not magically, but something real begins to bloom with each and every group. People slow down, they connect with each other, they open up, they smile and laugh more.
They remember what it feels like to feel good in their own bodies.
That's what the Plantstrong retreats are all about, giving yourself uninterrupted time to focus on your health, to learn in this community setting, and to reset habits that often get lost in everyday life. If you've been feeling like you need a reset physically, mentally or emotionally, this is it.
And to make it super easy, I am reopening the early bird registration rate for podcast listeners only. You can use the code podcast when you register to lock in those savings, but it's only available for a short time.
If you've been waiting for a sign, here it is.
You can learn more at liveplantstrong.com and then click on Events and I cannot wait to see you this spring in Black Mountain or this fall in Magical Sedona. We often assume heart health requires willpower, more discipline, better motivation, fewer slip ups. But the truth is much simpler.
Your heart responds to what's available and repeatable day after day. This is exactly why we built the Plantstrong food line the way we did.
When your pantry is stocked with whole, ready to use plant foods, consistency becomes the default, not another daily decision.
Meals come together faster, choices feel easier, and nourishing yourself stops feeling like work you shouldn't need willpower in your own home, your environment should support you. If you're looking for a practical way to make heart healthy eating more automatic, especially on those busy days, this is where consistency begins.
Go to planstrong.com all right. Hey, Jackie Akerberg, welcome back to the Plan Strong podcast. It is so wonderful to see you.
You know, the last time I had you on the show it was episode 203 and geez, we're somewhere into the, you know, mid-3002 right now. So.
Jackie Akerberg
00:04:04.150 - 00:04:10.670
It's been too long. It has been too long. And that is crazy to think about that because that was what, two years ago? Almost.
Rip Esselstyn
00:04:12.910 - 00:04:13.550
At least.
Jackie Akerberg
00:04:13.870 - 00:04:17.390
Okay, yeah. Wow. Time flies. But yeah, it has been way too.
Rip Esselstyn
00:04:17.390 - 00:05:01.760
Long, if not more. And I know that, you know, you've also been part of the plan stock lineup, which has been great, but I want to, you know, you've.
And again, it's been two years, so I think a lot is going on with your life, with my life. So it's high time for a catch up.
And you know, one of the things that I really admire about you, there's many things, but one of them is that you also kind of are under the same philosophy that I am with Plan Strong. And you wrote this book that we talked about last time. Right. The Clean Vegan Cookbook.
Because you don't use, if I'm correct, you don't use added oils. Correct.
Jackie Akerberg
00:05:02.240 - 00:05:13.600
Very little. I, very little. You really save it for when it counts.
I used to be a bit more rigid and now I go with the flow, but I mean, probably less than a tablespoon a week.
Rip Esselstyn
00:05:14.590 - 00:06:06.260
Yeah, yeah. And that's, I mean, that's. Yeah. But yeah. So you know, you were, you were with this book. You were just very, very, very pure, whole food, plant based.
And that's how we initially met and connected. And we've, we've got a lot of new followers since you and I last spoke.
So one of the things I'd love to do is, so I want to talk to you about food, recipes, sports, your big, you know, you uprooted from Des Moines, Iowa to Aspen. I want to know all about that. I want to talk recipes and hacks. So why don't we start with this.
And this is just to kind of let people that don't know who you are get caught up to speed. So you're, you're vegan. Can you tell us when you went vegan and why?
Jackie Akerberg
00:06:06.820 - 00:07:50.190
Absolutely. And it's kind of a progressive story. So we talked a little bit about this last time. I was here.
And I grew up in Des Moines, Iowa, heart of the country, Midwest, meat and potatoes land, like dairy farms everywhere. And I never liked meat. So growing up, I was mostly pescatarian.
I'd eat a little salmon here, some eggs, some dairy, Some dietary or some kind of allergy stuff led me to do some dietary testing and some food allergy testing and found out I was allergic to dairy. So cut out that pretty much pretty early on. Until I got into like my tipsy college days where I would eat some drunk pizza here and there.
For the most part, I was mostly just eating fish and eggs. And then it was 2019. I watched not only Forks Over Knives, but also Game Changers. And both those documentaries were so fascinating to me.
The way they kind of empowered the plant based diet and focused on how it can really transform your health and, and all the research your family had done. And I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna. It was actually the guy I was with at the time, he's like, let's go completely vegan for 30 days. And we did.
And so for me, that was. I was doing a little bit of dairy at that time, so cutting out dairy, cutting out eggs, and cutting out seafood. And I experienced a huge change.
I went from having to take allergy medicine every single day year round to none. I. My asthma went away. I no longer had any breakouts. My digestion improved. I was able to, you know, drop 10, 15 pounds and maintain it effortlessly.
All these things that I had struggled with that I thought were just things I had to live with were resolved.
Rip Esselstyn
00:07:50.830 - 00:07:55.630
So it sounds like a slam dunk. Like, yeah, why, why not do this?
Jackie Akerberg
00:07:55.950 - 00:07:56.750
Absolutely.
Rip Esselstyn
00:07:56.990 - 00:07:58.590
If this is what's on the other end.
Jackie Akerberg
00:07:58.910 - 00:08:37.320
And then I fell in love with the food because I don't know about you, but for me it's especially not enjoying the taste of like, I remember as a high school kid, we had a Jimmy John's right across the street. And so it's like at lunch when we were seniors, we would like walk over there because we had open campus, and I would get a turkey Tom.
And I'd be eating this sandwich. I'm like, there's a flavor that I hate. I don't know what it is, but there's one ingredient on here that I don't like the taste of.
And finally I would like take off half the turkey, then took off like all the turkey. And I was like, oh, wait, food tastes better.
You celebrate plants and learn how to like, really amplify the flavors of natural whole food ingredients. So that was just such a fun process once I did fully go plant based.
Rip Esselstyn
00:08:37.560 - 00:08:43.600
It's funny you brought up Jimmy John's. What. What. What years were those that you were.
Jackie Akerberg
00:08:43.600 - 00:08:52.360
Doing Jimmy John's prior to me realizing he was a endangered species, large game hunter. So we're talking like 2008, 2009.
Rip Esselstyn
00:08:52.840 - 00:09:19.080
That is so interesting, because right around that time is when, you know, I was at a firefighter at Fire Station 2 at 506 West MLK. And literally right across the street was a Jimmy John's. And we would go there and on the whole grain bread, we'd get.
And actually they named it for a little while there, the engine too. Avocado. And every vegetable under the sun. No.
Jackie Akerberg
00:09:19.160 - 00:09:24.080
And the hot peppers, they do have really good hot peppers. Yeah. Yeah. That's so funny.
Rip Esselstyn
00:09:24.240 - 00:09:26.160
I haven't thought about Jimmy John's in a long time.
Jackie Akerberg
00:09:26.240 - 00:09:27.040
Yeah, me neither.
Rip Esselstyn
00:09:27.520 - 00:09:37.040
Now, the last time you were on the show, you also. I mean, you maybe had 100, 120,000 followers on Instagram.
Jackie Akerberg
00:09:37.280 - 00:09:38.240
Yeah, if that.
Rip Esselstyn
00:09:38.960 - 00:10:07.280
If that. So, I mean, you have become like, you're approaching 500k. I mean, that's like. That's like real influencer territory.
And I'm just wondering, like, how is that? Well, a. How did you. How do you. How do you go from 100 to 500 in two years or less? And what did you do to actually get there?
What did you do to pick up your game?
Jackie Akerberg
00:10:07.760 - 00:10:22.430
Yeah, those are really great questions. Let me try to kind of break it down, because I think there were a few things that came into play. Um, I had a couple videos go incredibly viral.
So that was fun. I mean, those ones which, which, which.
Rip Esselstyn
00:10:22.430 - 00:10:24.070
Can you remember one or two in particular?
Jackie Akerberg
00:10:24.310 - 00:11:12.210
Oh, yeah. And one is still pinned to the top of my Instagram feed. Um, it's my layered fruit salad. And it was. This is actually so funny. So this was last May.
Um, I was in Paris, and on the way to the airport, it was the week before Memorial Day, and I decided to post this layered fruit salad. And it's. It's such a great concept. It's such a cute video.
But I start by making a really simple dressing of, like, orange juice, a ton of maple syrup, squeeze a lime, pinch of salt, and then layering the fruit. The. The hardiest ones, the bottom so they don't get mushy.
And then the more delicate ones, and it looks like this beautiful rainbow in this clear canister. And then I. Right when I'm going to serve, I flip the salad upside down, it tosses itself. It's so cute.
But I posted this video while I was pulling up to the Paris airport, put my phone in airplane mode.
Rip Esselstyn
00:11:12.370 - 00:11:12.850
Yeah.
Jackie Akerberg
00:11:12.990 - 00:11:19.390
Eight hours later, I land in the US and it has like 9 million views. I was like, what? This is the coolest thing ever.
Rip Esselstyn
00:11:20.750 - 00:11:23.070
Nine million views?
Jackie Akerberg
00:11:23.070 - 00:11:38.590
Yeah. And now I think it's at like 12 or 15 million. So that was a fun one.
And the other one was actually a layered salad as well, but my layered salads had a moment and then there's been a couple pastas that have gone viral and a couple salads. But yeah, those were really fun.
Rip Esselstyn
00:11:39.370 - 00:11:46.570
Wow. Well, it's nice to know how Carly Bodrug from Plant you feels every other.
Jackie Akerberg
00:11:46.570 - 00:11:47.450
Day for a minute.
Rip Esselstyn
00:11:48.570 - 00:11:49.290
Exactly.
Jackie Akerberg
00:11:49.610 - 00:12:33.540
I think the other thing that really came into play with my growth was I went from just every day posting a recipe, sharing that recipe, to my stories, to really engaging with my audience more and giving them a lens into my life, my daily life, what my workouts look like, what my social life looks like, what my travel looks like, and talking to the camera more and sharing more personal things.
And that really, I feel like I went from having a brand that had really good recipes to creating a true community of super fans that are involved and engaged in my daily life. And you know, I personally make sure to respond to every single message I get and go through my comments. And that really propelled my growth as well.
Rip Esselstyn
00:12:33.940 - 00:12:48.820
That. I mean, like, I can tell you, I just posted one of my. My mother making a savory oatmeal. It might have been two months ago.
And it's at like 2.2 million.
Jackie Akerberg
00:12:49.380 - 00:12:49.940
Damn.
Rip Esselstyn
00:12:50.500 - 00:12:58.100
And, and you know, there's over 1500, you know, comments. It's like, that's a full time job answering comments.
Jackie Akerberg
00:12:58.760 - 00:13:29.250
Yeah, it is. It really is. And I, I actually used to.
This is a behind the scenes, this is a. I don't tell people this usually, but I used to have a girl that would work for me and she would log in my Instagram every day and, you know, people were just like, oh, yum, it looks good.
She'd reply to those and then she would find the comments that were either asking me a direct question, sharing that someone made it, or, you know, something more personal that she wanted me to respond to and she would send me those. That way I could respond to those. Because it is, it's a full time job responding to comments.
Rip Esselstyn
00:13:29.570 - 00:13:42.930
Yeah, yeah. Well, and how, I mean, tell me this.
So at 5, close to 500,000 followers on Instagram, are you also doing Facebook and TikTok and those other platforms.
Jackie Akerberg
00:13:42.930 - 00:14:09.420
So I always cross post to Facebook. I just. Hi. I hire someone that's helping me with my content and she's like, you got to start posting TikTok again. So I just started TikTok. It's a.
It's a crazy world over there, but I'm dipping my toe in. And then I'm also dabbling in the world of YouTube. So. But Instagram and my website will always be my.
My main areas I nourish, at least for now, until that changes in any way. But, yes.
Rip Esselstyn
00:14:11.340 - 00:14:24.700
Has your life changed professionally? I mean, at 500,000, you're kind of, I think, considered a, like an influencer. You're probably getting solicited by a lot of companies to.
Jackie Akerberg
00:14:24.900 - 00:14:25.100
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn
00:14:25.100 - 00:14:32.820
You know, talk about their stuff. Do you feel like your life has changed a little bit in the last two years because of that?
Jackie Akerberg
00:14:33.220 - 00:15:28.810
Absolutely. I think for sure, in. In a great way. And I think I have more credibility and more recognition in the space.
Like, I was in Newport beach about six months ago and, like, biking down the boardwalk and someone's like, is that Jackie of Jack Fruitful Kitchen? And I was like, oh, my God. This is like a.
Like, that used to happen to me all the time when I lived in Des Moines and would go to Whole Foods every Sing Sunday. Like, people would come up to me every week and be like, I recognize you. I follow your page.
But to get recognized, like, in a random town in California across the country was kind of a moment where I was like, oh, this is becoming a big thing. So, yeah, it has changed professionally.
I think not only have I improved my recipe writing, food photography, recipe development, and just overall processes, but it's. It's fun to have some. Some clout in the space and, you know, engage with some of these top people.
Rip Esselstyn
00:15:29.050 - 00:15:36.330
Well, you're doing a fantastic job. Tell me this, because I, you know, I was reviewing your last several months of posts.
Jackie Akerberg
00:15:36.410 - 00:15:36.890
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn
00:15:37.050 - 00:15:44.170
Are you. Is that the videoing that's going on? Are you setting the camera up or do you have somebody helping you with that?
Jackie Akerberg
00:15:45.050 - 00:16:05.650
So I would say 90% of the time. No, probably like 98% of the time, I have a few different tripods and different angle things I will use, but sometimes my boyfriend Eric helps me.
He's always down to jump in and have a little fun or do camera work if necessary. But yeah, for the most part, it's tripods and little setup things.
Rip Esselstyn
00:16:06.930 - 00:16:44.580
That's a way to be creative with that. Yeah. And resourceful.
So you mentioned, you mentioned, you know, one of the things that's propelled you is, you know, you started giving people a glimpse, right, kind of into your life, your daily life. And you know, you've had a huge change has happened in the last seven, eight months and that is you move from Des Moines, Iowa, Aspen, Colorado.
And I'd love to know, you know, whatever you'd like to share about that move and why. I mean, you've been in Des Moines for a long time.
Jackie Akerberg
00:16:46.320 - 00:19:03.380
Yeah, absolutely. And I appreciate you asking and I'm happy to share.
I'm kind of an open book about this because I do think it's important to, you know, normalize it and share with others what life can look like after a hard time. But about a year ago, I went through a divorce of my partner of nine years.
And you know, whatever odds we had, whatever different directions life was taking us, it's, it's painful to go through that and it's really scary and it's, you know, for a long time I was in a place where I thought I couldn't leave. I, you know, I have a self employed little business and what am I going to do?
And I, because of this business I've built, because of this career, because of all this growth and because of just some self development, I was able to walk away from something that was not healthy for me and no longer serving me. And when that time came, you know, Des Moines, Iowa, it's about 800,000.
But the little like nook bubble that I lived in, it's like the coolest area of town, but it's a pretty small community. And I'm like, I can work anywhere in the world, why would I stay here other than my wonderful family and friends?
And like, I am just going to get out of Dodge and Aspen is somewhere that's always been very near and dear to my heart.
For the past 10 years, I would come out here at least twice a year, if not more, had built a community of wonderful friends and knew it would be a very soft landing. So I came out here for a three month, like I just rented a place. It was, you know, last January.
I rented a place for the end of ski season pretty much and just fell in love.
And I don't know that I'll ever leave, but it's, it's been a, you know, one of the most, you know, hands down the most difficult year of my life and also the most rewarding with some of the surprises and changes and unexpected things. Like meeting my partner Eric was so unexpected.
And it's been the best gift of my life to be with someone who celebrates you and respects you and treats you with love and joy and wants to have fun in the kitchen and try recipes. It's just, it's been such a treat. And Benson, my dog, is here with me and he's so happy.
Rip Esselstyn
00:19:05.380 - 00:19:09.700
I've seen photos and Benson in the videos for sure.
Jackie Akerberg
00:19:10.020 - 00:19:22.260
Yeah, it's been great. So it's been a big change. It was very scary, very painful and so very rewarding on the other side. I'm very happy.
Rip Esselstyn
00:19:22.820 - 00:19:31.860
I can't even imagine. Yeah. How scary that must have been. Where did you run into Eric?
Jackie Akerberg
00:19:33.860 - 00:22:05.280
So this is actually a funny story. It was like right after I'd moved out here and obviously, I mean after my past relationship I was in for nine years and I'm only 34.
So that was a big chunk of my life.
And I had, you know, a lot of input, much of it unsolicited, from friends and family members that, you know, stay single for a long time, be by yourself, find yourself. And I wanted that too. I'm like, I want to just focus on myself, heal from all of this and kind of be alone for a while. It was like my first day here.
I. I was pretty overserved and underfed at an apres ski party and, you know, a little bit tipsy. There's dj, we're at the Aspen Art Museum rooftop.
But I'm with a bunch of my friends and this guy comes up to talk to me and I say, no habla ingles and run away because I wasn't interested. I didn't want to. I'm like, I just am going to pretend I don't speak English. I don't know why that's where I went, but it's what I did.
And the next day we were. My best friend and I were skiing at Aspen Highlands.
And it's funny, there's four mountains here and we were planning on going to Ajax, which is the main one, and last minute pivoted to go to Highlands. And we are, we stopped for lunch mid ski day as you do lunch and an aperol spritz.
And by the way, Aspen, all four mountains have the most incredible vegan on mountain dining options. We'll get to that.
But so we're having lunch, I go to the restroom and I'm like, I see this like the most handsome man I've ever seen in my life staring at me like kind of smirking and I'm like, who is that? I go to the restroom, I come back out, he's still Giving me this look like it's kind of cheeky grin.
And so I go up and I'm like, I'm sorry, but do I know you? Just moved to town. And he was like, oh, so you do speak English. And I hadn't recognized him from the night before.
And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Like, let me buy you a, a beer or something to say sorry.
And you know, at that point I was still kind of in the thick of things, but he was very kind and patient and supportive and understanding of my boundaries and emotional needs to process things. And it was pretty undeniable, our connection and just, it was pretty instant. So, yeah, that's how I met.
Rip Esselstyn
00:22:06.360 - 00:22:29.400
Well, good. Well, thank you for giving, giving me that background.
And so in reviewing a lot of your Instagram posts, it's interesting to me, and I applaud you for this, that he is not vegan. He's not necessarily plant based. He's a meat and meat and potato kind of guy. But he adores your cooking.
Jackie Akerberg
00:22:29.880 - 00:25:05.570
Yes. And it's been, it's funny because that first day that we met at the ski restaurant, he was like, but soy is bad for you.
And I was like, oh, bless your heart, we'll get to this.
Like, and you know, he's, his mind has been so open and like, we've talked about so much and you know, he had dated a couple girls in the past that were vegetarian or vegan. And so when he found out that's what I was, he was like, oh God, this is going to be awful because those girls didn't know how to cook.
They didn't know how to make things have labor. They didn't, they didn't understand how to make plants taste good. And so he was absolutely dreading it.
And the very first meal I cooked for him was my 15 minute spicy saucy tofu noodle bowls. They're so great. I'll send the link so you can drop it. It's one of my favorite recipes.
It uses high protein tofu and then cashews, little green onion, ginger and garlic, combines them with a noodle and like a coconut amino sauce. Phenomenal. But he was literally like, wtf? This is one of the best things I've ever tasted. And it's vegan. Like, this is insane.
So it's been really fun opening his eyes to how delicious plant based meals can be. And he's, he's, he'll always say he's like, it's just as delicious. And I feel just as satisfied. Like, I don't, I don't miss the meat.
It's also been interesting cause I'm someone where I don't think you win people over by shaming them or trying to force change at all. And I think a lot of people go about that the wrong way.
Or when I shared that Eric wasn't vegan, I got some comments like, oh, I could never be with someone like that. And how do you have any respect for someone? And I think it's important to remember, like, we're all out here doing our best. There's choices I make.
You know, whether I'm flying across the country to Morocco next week or, or whatever I'm doing or you're doing, that might not be the absolute best choice for our planet or for animals or for ourselves each day. But we're all doing our best.
And to be with someone who still makes his own choices from a dietary perspective, but open his eyes to so much more options with the plant based cuisine. Because we all know people are like, what do you eat as a vegan? You're like, oh, we have like tens of thousands of grains, plants, legumes, fruit.
Like we have options. Don't worry about us versus your three animals you eat. But it's, it's been really fun.
And also just have that mutual respect for each other and for him to, you know, the first thing he says whenever he meets someone is like, she is the best vegan cook ever. Her vegan food's amazing. Like, I love it. And he's this big macho guy, so it's just, it's been wonderful.
Rip Esselstyn
00:25:06.210 - 00:25:20.650
Well, and I know that your love language is food too, right? Cooking, preparing really good food. So. Wow, he must feel all kinds of love and pampering from you. Lucky guy.
Jackie Akerberg
00:25:21.210 - 00:25:21.730
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn
00:25:21.730 - 00:25:25.290
Now, are you guys, are you, are you living together? Are you separate?
Jackie Akerberg
00:25:25.850 - 00:25:54.660
Yeah, so we actually, I mean, we. Both of our leases were up this summer and he'd actually moved in with me temporarily because his place was having a bunch of work done on it.
And you know, places in Aspen are pretty small and we both have a large dog. And we quickly realized that living together was so much fun and so effortless and so heartwarming that we decided to move it together.
And that happened in June, so.
Rip Esselstyn
00:25:54.660 - 00:25:55.140
Wow.
Jackie Akerberg
00:25:55.140 - 00:25:55.620
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn
00:25:55.620 - 00:26:02.420
So let me ask you this. So are you okay having meat and cheese in the fridge?
Jackie Akerberg
00:26:03.140 - 00:26:45.260
I am.
I, you know, this is always a topic of conversation too, that I tend to not know how to roach necessarily, but it's like I, I don't feed my dogs a vegan diet. And so it's, I have their meat based food here and I don't try to like, necessarily.
I mean, if he gets a steak or something, I don't want to look at it. I'll put it in the drawer. But there's a thing of eggs in there. There's a thing of cheddar cheese.
But yeah, he's, I mean, he's very respectful and very, it's, it's easy. But yeah, there is, there is some meat and. Yeah, but a small amount compared to all the beautiful greens and fruits, so.
Rip Esselstyn
00:26:45.420 - 00:27:03.260
Well, that's good. Again, I, I, I applaud you on your, your openness. I can tell you that. You know, we'll sometimes do a vacation with friends or family. Not anyway.
And not Esselstyn family.
Jackie Akerberg
00:27:03.260 - 00:27:05.060
Yeah, but.
Rip Esselstyn
00:27:06.180 - 00:27:28.900
And they'll bring in some, you know, some meat and stuff and it gets on the cutting board and it's in the sink and it's just like, this is it, you know, when you've been away from it for a long time. Yeah, it is, it is a little bit jarring. Good word. Yeah, jarring and very unpleasant. So.
Jackie Akerberg
00:27:28.900 - 00:28:32.540
Yeah, yeah, I, I completely understand and respect that and agree. And luckily he's so respectful and thoughtful and mindful of the way he handles it.
And it, you know, it's, it's interesting because I, I'm also someone where if we're hosting like last week we had like 25 people over for football Sunday and I made a delicious vegan chili, which actually got more compliments than Eric's meat chili. But we also, you know, we had a cheese board.
We had like, I, I'm someone where I want to make everyone feel comfortable and if they're coming to my house and I only have vegan options, they might feel pigeonholed.
But if I have, you know, a cheese, a meat and cheese board, like, you know, a little prosciutto or whatever, and then also two options of chili, they're much more likely to try them both and realize that they really enjoy the plant based options but not feel awkward that that was all I had. And I know that's not like the only way to go about it, but that's kind of how I've navigated it and it works really well. And.
Rip Esselstyn
00:28:32.620 - 00:28:53.790
Yeah, well, yeah, you know what? Again, well, like, I can tell you, we, when I go home, we have a big Thanksgiving in Cleveland with 40 plus Esselstyns and, and family and friends.
And we usually, there's always somebody that Wants to bring a turkey.
Jackie Akerberg
00:28:53.950 - 00:28:54.350
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn
00:28:54.350 - 00:29:03.710
So that's usually about the only like animal plant based thing that's there for Thanksgiving. But yeah, you know, we, we do our best.
Jackie Akerberg
00:29:03.790 - 00:29:05.470
It's hard because it's like the full body.
Rip Esselstyn
00:29:06.109 - 00:29:09.550
I know, I know, I know. Yeah.
Jackie Akerberg
00:29:09.790 - 00:29:24.760
It's also interesting chime in here being an Aspen, because it is such a, you know, mountain culture country or town. So you go into these iconic places and they have the giant bus on the wall or the.
Rip Esselstyn
00:29:24.920 - 00:29:25.480
Yeah.
Jackie Akerberg
00:29:25.880 - 00:29:58.060
And that's been, you know, I feel like I'm becoming a little bit more, I don't want to say comfortable with it, but used to it while still choosing the places I, I visit wisely and respectfully.
Um, but yeah, it's, you know, the true vegans make up a small part of the community and as much as we can do to celebrate it and bring people in with acceptance and fun and deliciousness is great. But yeah, it's hard sometimes to be exposed to all that.
Rip Esselstyn
00:29:58.620 - 00:30:12.910
Yeah. Carrie and I were interviewing a wonderful woman. Her, her Instagram handle is Vegan AF underscore and she's really.
Jackie Akerberg
00:30:12.910 - 00:30:16.630
Vegan af. Yeah. We can't cast you, can we?
Rip Esselstyn
00:30:16.870 - 00:30:20.230
No. Well, you could, but, but we tend not to.
Jackie Akerberg
00:30:20.230 - 00:30:22.150
We'll save that. Carry the pain of that.
Rip Esselstyn
00:30:22.870 - 00:30:39.020
But she's like, you know, she has this one post where she's like, what we need is thousands and thousands and thousands, really millions of imperfect vegans, as opposed to 12 perfect vegans. And she's totally, she's so. Right, right.
Jackie Akerberg
00:30:39.020 - 00:32:36.970
I completely agree. And that's like, you know, so I'm doing this big trip next week. I think I told you about it briefly, but it's with the getaway company.
They're a fully vegan travel company and I'm hosting an eight day retreat in Morocco in Marrakech. Wow. Wow, I'm so excited. But what's really incredible about this trip, and I'll, I promise I'll close this loop, is they.
You have three totally vegan meals every single day. Every single excursion you do. You, you know, there, there's not going to be any animal welfare issues.
There's not going to be any wool or leather or any of that. It's fully catered to, totally vegan travel, while also having all your excursions and logistics taken care of for you. Amazing.
And I'm someone where, like when I'm traveling, I, or even dining out, I'd like to know how you handle this, but I kind of just choose what I call bpo. Best possible option. If I Am.
Especially if I'm in a group, like, let's say it's a group of eight of us out to dinner, and the server is maybe already a little stressed and she's coming around to order or take my order.
I'm going to pick the best possible option on the menu, realizing there might be a little oil or there might be a little butter, or maybe there's a tablespoon of dairy in the sauce. And I'm just. I know that it's not going to kill me, and I just. Maybe it's my lack of.
I hate confrontation or what, but I just kind of like to just go with the best possible option. And I do the same thing when I travel. But to have the joy of having a completely vegan trip is amazing.
And, like, after Morocco, Eric and I are going to Spain and Portugal and Switzerland, which. Especially Spain and Portugal. There's a lot of meat focus there. And as I'm navigating, I'm like, wow, I'm.
I'm getting spoiled these first eight days in Morocco with this totally vegan trip. And then it's going to be back to the, like, okay, how do I navigate this? Do I, like, ask for a special request in a foreign language?
Like, what do I do?
Rip Esselstyn
00:32:39.050 - 00:33:10.660
Well, I like your whole bpo. Best possible option, especially when you're out and you're left. Let's just say you're really hungry and you're trying to figure it out.
I will never knowingly cross the line as far as doing something that has, you know, dairy or butter or something like that. But oil, If I'm in a restaurant, Absolutely, yeah. If it's white pasta. White. You know, so if it's not a whole grain, but it's a refined grain. Right?
Jackie Akerberg
00:33:10.660 - 00:33:11.060
Totally.
Rip Esselstyn
00:33:11.060 - 00:33:12.580
I'm. I'm fine with that.
Jackie Akerberg
00:33:13.060 - 00:33:50.340
And I kind of come back to the, you know, thousands of imperfect choices, but still going towards that direction versus, I think people get intimidated.
I had someone message me the other day that it's like, I've tried to go vegan four times now, and I do so great for the first three weeks, and then I fail. And I'm like, well, is that a failure? Or did you just have one imperfect meal and you can continue with the goal? And, like, what is your goal?
Are you doing it for animals? Are you doing it for health? Like, let's.
Let's dive into this because maybe being a slightly imperfect vegan is perfect for you, and it's still positively impacting not only your health, but the planet, you.
Rip Esselstyn
00:33:50.340 - 00:34:48.660
Know, what everything you just talked about there. I think it's really important for, I think for everybody to hear this.
And that is, let's just say that 90% of the listeners right now are considering, consider themselves whole food, plant based or vegan or plant strong, clean vegans.
But I want you to know that if you mess up on a Friday night and you go out and you have a hot dog or something like that, to me you're still 98 or 99% plant based and don't look at it as a failure. And now there's no reason for me to continue on with this lifestyle because I just can't hack it.
I don't have the mindset, I don't have the willpower. It's like, no, like even there's 20, what, 21 meals in a week, right Jackie?
Jackie Akerberg
00:34:48.660 - 00:34:49.100
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn
00:34:49.180 - 00:34:58.420
So let's say you're doing 15 of those whole food plant based and the other six or whatever, you're doing great, right?
Jackie Akerberg
00:34:58.420 - 00:35:53.920
Yeah, I completely agree and I think that's such a great thing. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing mentality.
Honestly, an all or nothing mentality is oftentimes what prevents people from making change or changing their habits and sticking with them because it doesn't feel sustainable.
And I am living proof of this that once I did commit to plant based, whole food plant based, you don't crave, you know, refined sugar and cheese anymore after a period of time.
But in those first few weeks, if you're making a, if you're making a big change from an omnivore, sugar rich, dairy rich diet to whole food plant based vegan, you're, it's going to feel so restrictive. So it's almost better to start with those 15 meals a week and then make it, you know, 16 and make it 17 and then forgive yourself and move on.
If you even six months down the road have a slice of pizza or something, whatever that means, it's not about being perfect, it's just making positive changes.
Rip Esselstyn
00:35:54.800 - 00:36:09.910
And I think that for people that are out there and know my father and his mentality and just know that, you know, my father's dealing with people that have a lot of them end stage heart disease. And so for them it is a matter of life and death.
Jackie Akerberg
00:36:09.990 - 00:36:10.470
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn
00:36:10.470 - 00:36:51.870
And so if it isn't a matter of life and death for you, you know, and everybody that's listening you, you know where you stand with your health and if you've had a shot across, across the bow with diabetes or cancer, heart disease and Then is it is absolutely, you know, in your best interest to do it more so than less so. But there's no judgment here, and we just want people to, you know, do. Do the best that you can given. Given the, you know, your.
Everybody's got their own different circumstances they're dealing with.
Jackie Akerberg
00:36:51.870 - 00:36:59.400
Yeah, for sure. And I think that, you know, one other thing you'll notice is when you change the way you eat and then waver.
Rip Esselstyn
00:36:59.800 - 00:37:00.280
Yes.
Jackie Akerberg
00:37:00.360 - 00:38:10.460
You feel terrible. And this actually. My poor dad. So he's a big meat, dairy, potatoes guy. And I mean, they eat really well.
They're not doing, like, TV dinners and cheesy casseroles at home, but a few steaks a week, eggs, bacon, whatever. And he got some feedback from his doctor six months ago that he was either gonna have to take a medication or make some dietary changes. And.
And he chose the dietary changes, which I was so proud of him for. And they road tripped from Des Moines, Iowa, out to Aspen about a month ago. And he kind of. I think he just got excited and went a little rogue.
And, you know, he's stopping at Wendy's for a breakfast sandwich, they're stopping for a hot dog, and my mom's like, oh, God, what's this gonna be like?
And the second they got here at altitude, the combination of all that crummy food in his body that had been used to vegetables and, you know, maybe some, like, lean fish here and there and mostly plants, had a really rude awakening when it was hit with all that and the altitude and the bottle of champagne I had opened when they arrived. But it was. It's a really big thing when you change what you eat and your body change what it wants. So.
Rip Esselstyn
00:38:11.260 - 00:38:23.030
So let's, you know, we. We're all caught up with things, you know, around Aspen and football and your parents and stuff, and let's dive into some. Some recipes.
Jackie Akerberg
00:38:23.270 - 00:38:24.550
Heck, yeah. Let's do it.
Rip Esselstyn
00:38:25.030 - 00:38:26.230
So it's fall season.
Jackie Akerberg
00:38:26.950 - 00:38:27.430
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn
00:38:27.590 - 00:38:43.990
And fall season, I think for you kind of means, like, you like squash. So tell me, like, what are squash? What are some squashes that we should be looking out for now? And do you have one or two dishes that you recommend?
Jackie Akerberg
00:38:44.720 - 00:39:09.520
Absolutely. I'm so glad you asked. And it's funny today.
Today, in present time, not when this Goes Live, is actually episode one of my squash series, so definitely check it out. But I'm going to be releasing 10 different recipes that really highlight squash. And we're not just talking your typical acorn or butternut.
I'm diving into kind of some of the More obscure, unique squashes. I'm actually going to grab my favorite because it's over there.
Rip Esselstyn
00:39:09.680 - 00:39:10.960
Yeah, yeah, get it. Yeah, go get it.
Jackie Akerberg
00:39:11.480 - 00:39:15.880
So this is a red curry squash, like K U R I.
Rip Esselstyn
00:39:17.080 - 00:39:17.720
Okay.
Jackie Akerberg
00:39:17.800 - 00:40:31.920
And it is my favorite squash ever. I actually last night made a hot honey cheesy squash dip. So I roasted this and then I pureed it with a.
With, you know, raw cashews and some nutritional yeast and maple syrup and cayenne and garlic to make like a hot honey cheesy squash dip, which we took to a friend's house and they devoured it. But what I love about this squash is it's so rich and creamy. The skin is very thin. So the skin is edible. Of course, wash it by organic and it's just.
It's so velvety and luxurious. I actually have a chipotle red curry squash soup on my website that is one of my favorite dishes to make.
It's the perfect amount of like, smoky, spicy, sweet and creamy. Absolutely delicious. And my other favorite squash is honey nut, and those ones are the ones that look like miniature butternut.
But again, the skin is edible. It's very thin and tender. The texture of that squash, I'm not sure if you've had it.
I'm sure you have, but it's more flavorful and a little bit more dense. Kind of leaning towards a sweet potato. But then it has more of that squash flavor and a deeper, nuttier richness to it that I just love.
And they're this big, so they're very cute.
Rip Esselstyn
00:40:32.640 - 00:40:40.200
Well, you had me at the word velvet velvety when you. When you were describing that. Yeah, curry squash. Wow.
Jackie Akerberg
00:40:40.600 - 00:40:41.120
It's.
Rip Esselstyn
00:40:41.120 - 00:41:01.880
I've never heard of that before. You've got me very, very excited to try it. So you made.
In one of your recent posts, you were making a salad and you were talking about how, you know, salads aren't just for, you know, summer, and you did a roasted squash. Was that. Did you use the curry or do you use the one you just talked about?
Jackie Akerberg
00:41:01.880 - 00:41:41.610
You know, so red curry is so velvety that I actually don't like to use it in salads because it doesn't hold its shape as well. So I like to use something more like a delicata because those little half moons really hold up in a salad.
Even if you, you know, roast them for a long time and they get soft and tender and creamy, they're still going to hold their shape a little bit more. So that's what I use for that one.
I actually coated it in a Little nutritional yeast and garlic and some breadcrumbs, and then baked it and created a dairy free, of course, Caesar dressing with crispy chickpeas and massage kale. You know I love massage kale, so.
Rip Esselstyn
00:41:41.930 - 00:41:53.450
Oh, my God. Well, you, I. Yeah, yeah, I do know you love massage kale. You did a roasted squash with a. With crispy rice.
Jackie Akerberg
00:41:53.770 - 00:41:55.770
Yes, that one. That one.
Rip Esselstyn
00:41:56.260 - 00:42:02.580
That one looked really amazing. And you also. And on top of it, you did a pumpkin balsamic vinaigrette.
Jackie Akerberg
00:42:02.820 - 00:42:29.870
Yes. So that one I think I used. Wait, did I use. I either used honey nut or butternut for that salad, which is.
Those are both great for holding up in something that you're going to toss. But then, yes, I made an oil free pumpkin balsamic.
So I use balsamic vinegar, pumpkin puree, a little tahini, cinnamon salt, maybe a little garlic, Dijon mustard, water. It was so delicious.
Rip Esselstyn
00:42:30.030 - 00:42:39.950
I can't believe you can remember all those specific ingredients. That's amazing. Jackie, what's your opinion on the microwave oven?
Jackie Akerberg
00:42:40.750 - 00:42:47.870
The microwave oven. Okay, so here's what I'll say. I think there's a time and place for. This is such a random question.
Rip Esselstyn
00:42:48.750 - 00:42:52.070
Oh, I know. Oh, I know. But trust me, there's a reason for it.
Jackie Akerberg
00:42:52.150 - 00:43:01.510
Okay, I can't wait. Here's. Especially since we're talking about squash, here's one thing I really like. The microwave. We're talking about a microwave, right?
Rip Esselstyn
00:43:01.830 - 00:43:02.790
Yeah, microwave.
Jackie Akerberg
00:43:04.230 - 00:43:46.300
Are we talking about air fryers? No, microwave.
So sometimes a larger squash can be really hard to handle for people, especially if they don't have the dexterity or the strength or the knife skills.
And one thing I would always say when working with a squash is make sure you have high quality knives, a great 8 inch chef's knife, and make sure it's sharp.
But one thing you can also do is poke your squash a few times with a fork, place it in the microwave for, you know, two to four minutes, and it softens it just the tiniest bit. So then when you go to cut it, especially those larger squash, it makes it a lot easier to work with and therefore a lot safer.
So that's one thing I love it for. But I'm, you know, I probably use my microwave once a week. I mean, it has its time and place. How about you?
Rip Esselstyn
00:43:46.460 - 00:44:30.690
I mean, we have a microwave. We use it all the time.
As you, you had a post where you talked about the microwave and you were cooking up some sweet potatoes and you said, you're like, listen, no shame here, no shame, right. And. And it's like, you know, as Dr. Greger likes to say, in doing, in doing, you know, put it to the test and do the research.
He says the most dangerous thing about a microwave is if it falls off the shelf and hits you in the foot. Right. That's true.
I think that most Americans, maybe not most Americans, but people that are health conscious think that microwaves are somehow unsafe. Right?
Jackie Akerberg
00:44:30.690 - 00:45:28.090
Yeah. And that's not the case. I just typically don't like cooking things fully in there for the best results.
Unless I'm heating up like, you know, one of your plant strong meals or that recipe you're talking about.
I'm, you know, I wanted to quick steam a sweet potato because I was going to puree it with some miso paste and garlic and maple syrup for this delicious silky, velvety base for these roasted chickpeas and broccoli.
And for something like that where you're not trying to get the sweet potato caramelized, you're not trying to, you know that it's, it's such a time saver.
And in this day and age, when you can simplify and expedite healthy, clean, whole food plant based recipes to make them fit into your lifestyle, that's what we need. So whatever shortcuts work for you, whether that's another thing that gets a bad rap.
Frozen vegetables and fruits, when really they're harvested and processed at peak prime ripeness and all they're doing is freezing it like there's nothing wrong with them. So whatever shortcuts people need to eat healthy and make good choices, I think is great, including the refrigerator.
Rip Esselstyn
00:45:28.090 - 00:45:43.680
Great, great point. I'm such a fan of frozen everything, fruits, vegetables, yeah, Okra, green leafies, you name it. The nutrition is completely intact, as you just said.
Picked at the peak of ripeness, it's all good.
Jackie Akerberg
00:45:44.080 - 00:45:49.520
Have you ever had and one question on frozen fruit, a grade A strawberry.
Rip Esselstyn
00:45:50.320 - 00:45:53.200
Ooh, I don't know what that means.
Jackie Akerberg
00:45:54.000 - 00:46:42.430
I did not either.
And so I was at this food show, I was at the fancy food show out in New York in June with a brand that I work with, Panna Cheesa, my favorite clean dairy free parmesan. And I was walking around getting some samples on my little off time and this company was serving all. The only ingredient they used was strawberries.
Frozen strawberries, frozen grade A strawberries. And this was the sweetest smoothie I've ever had.
And they told me that there's like a, you know, different tiers of ranking when they're going through to harvest these strawberries and the Ones that have a certain color, certain weight, and certain, like, sugar content. They. Natural sugar content are all grade A. And so they're like the sweetest strawberries ever.
I haven't been able to find them in my frozen food section here, but.
Rip Esselstyn
00:46:42.510 - 00:46:48.110
Wow. So. So it. How do you know if you're getting grade A? Does it actually say it somewhere?
Jackie Akerberg
00:46:48.350 - 00:46:49.310
Yep. On the bag.
Rip Esselstyn
00:46:49.470 - 00:46:50.270
On the bag.
Jackie Akerberg
00:46:50.270 - 00:46:53.750
Wow. Well, I remember the brand, but is.
Rip Esselstyn
00:46:53.750 - 00:46:56.910
That just for strawberries? Is it for other fruit as well? Do you know?
Jackie Akerberg
00:46:57.290 - 00:47:00.650
That's another question I don't know the answer to, but the strawberries are amazing.
Rip Esselstyn
00:47:00.810 - 00:47:15.290
Okay. Okay. I want to ask you about tofu and tempeh because I can tell you that in our house, we have tofu probably four to five days a week.
Jackie Akerberg
00:47:15.690 - 00:47:16.250
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn
00:47:16.250 - 00:47:28.040
It's a mainstay in almost every one of our, our, our dishes. But I want to get there by talking about. You have written a e book. Yes, I'm all about protein.
Jackie Akerberg
00:47:28.280 - 00:47:28.840
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn
00:47:29.400 - 00:47:40.880
So what prompted you to write an ebook on protein? And I do know that protein is like crazy popular right now.
Jackie Akerberg
00:47:40.880 - 00:47:45.000
It's having its moment. It's like the cauliflower rice of 2025.
Rip Esselstyn
00:47:46.280 - 00:47:47.320
Good analogy.
Jackie Akerberg
00:47:47.720 - 00:49:01.440
But what prompted this is partially because there's been such a big uptick in people wanting high protein dishes. And I think it's important to understand how much protein you actually need and where you can get your protein.
That it doesn't need to be animal sources, that there are a hundred percent of the essential amino acids and non essential amino acids and protein you need in plants. And also how easy it is to get.
You know, most Americans are effortlessly eating enough protein every single day if they're eating a varied diet with, you know, a variety of ingredients, even plant based.
But if you're someone that's super, super active and doing a lot of strength training every single day, endurance workouts, or you have different medical conditions or dietary needs or age impacts us as well, your protein needs might change a little bit.
And understanding where to get your protein, how to get creative, how to fun, add fun high protein snacks, and the ways that you can kind of incorporate key ingredients into each meal to get that protein is something I wanted to do. And also how to make tofu super delicious because it's my favorite ingredient.
Rip Esselstyn
00:49:01.440 - 00:49:08.720
Yeah. Well, and how, how many do you have? A bunch of recipes that are part of the ebook.
Jackie Akerberg
00:49:09.040 - 00:50:03.260
Yeah. So this ebook goes through. It's, you know, there's all these modules and. But you. It goes through what is protein?
What are the best protein sources, how much Protein each ingredient has and then it dives into how to incorporate them and even includes a five day meal plan that has breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks for every day that help you get at least a hundred grams of protein if that's what you're trying to do. And also just kind of shows the breakdown each day so you can see which ingredients are giving you that. And then it.
My goal is to not only help you understand your protein sources and what you actually need or don't need, but then to kind of understand like if you're adding beans to this meal or tofu to this meal and you know, peas to this meal and spinach and avocado and seeds, you're. It's going to help you.
After you go through this five day meal plan and this whole book, you're going to be a pro and you're going to, it's going to become a lot more natural to add protein into your everyday life.
Rip Esselstyn
00:50:03.660 - 00:50:12.710
So have you personally added more protein into your daily regiment over the last couple months?
Jackie Akerberg
00:50:13.350 - 00:50:55.800
Not necessarily. I, you know, I love tofu a lot. I love edamame, I love tempeh.
So I'm always eating a pretty plant or protein forward diet but it's not something that I'm making a conscious effort to do because my skin is great, my hair is great, my body composition feels right, I feel strong, I feel like I have endurance. And so I'm actually one of the people.
While I'm providing this resource and kind of explaining the importance of it, I'm not jumping on the 200 grams of protein a day train or the have a protein powder for every single meal train. I do have one protein powder that I really, really love. It's so clean.
But no, I'm kind of a middle of the range protein girl and it works really well for me.
Rip Esselstyn
00:50:56.120 - 00:51:07.610
Well, what is the protein powder that you're kind of high on? Because I know that a lot of these have been tested and they're coming back with, you know, all kinds of metal and metals.
Jackie Akerberg
00:51:07.610 - 00:51:33.320
Yeah, Mold toxins.
So I use Aura, it's O R a and it's 100% organic, no added sugar, has some probiotics to help with just digestion and it's third party quadruple tested so it's 100% clean and I just love it. And the best thing about it is it tastes incredible. I've actually converted Eric, he was using some. Yeah, I'll spare you some gross animal protein.
Rip Esselstyn
00:51:33.320 - 00:51:35.440
Oh, not away. Not a whey protein.
Jackie Akerberg
00:51:35.520 - 00:51:50.080
It was like an organ Protein. I don't want to talk about it. He's a full aura convert, not only for their protein but also their creatine and their magnesium. We just, we love it.
Their products are incredible and I love how clean they are and they actually taste good.
Rip Esselstyn
00:51:50.640 - 00:53:31.430
Well, I want to, I want to talk about tofu in a sec, but before we do, I just, I just want to continue just for a sec on this whole protein craze.
And you know, you have some of these influencers and people that have, you know, MDs behind their name that are really, I think as you said, you know, 200 grams a day.
You know, Peter Attia, who we we've talked about is now basically suggesting that everybody should be getting at least 2 grams per kilogram of, of body weight to maintain muscle mass. And I just think it's absolutely over the moon.
And again, as we were talking about, only about 20% of Americans are actually engaging in some sort of resistance training over the course of a week.
And just to make my point here and then I want to move on to some recipes but you know, Peter Attia takes this medicine called Rabisomycin I believe it's called to bring down his MTOR levels and his GF1 IGF1 levels because he is eating so much protein and there's so many studies that show you can get great muscle protein, muscle synthesis just by consuming half of what he is recommending. So I just, you know, I love that you've written a book, an ebook on Protein101, so people can really understand it.
But I just think the levels that some of these people are pushing it are extreme. Are extreme. So extreme.
Jackie Akerberg
00:53:31.430 - 00:54:16.460
Especially the carnivore diet. People not to, I mean if something works for someone, I never want to yuck someone's yum. Like if you are feeling your best, like you, you go for it.
However, it's like if they're just eating animal products all day, there's no micronutrients, there's no fiber.
Like how are you, you're eating all these calories, one of the most calorically dense foods on earth, probably coating it in oil and then you're only getting protein and some iron and you're not getting all the fiber and other nutrients that your body needs.
So where's that coming from versus a plant based diet, A diverse plant based diet, eating a little less protein but getting all those other nutrients to make your body thrive I think is just such a better option and it's so much less expensive.
Rip Esselstyn
00:54:17.100 - 00:54:45.780
Right, Right on.
So Last night I got home and my 11 year old daughter, her latest thing is she pan sears this extra firm tofu and she makes it, she makes this, she calls, she's calling it Sriracha. A Sriracha tofu. And I saw that you have this maple Sriracha tofu bowls and that just made me think, oh my gosh, it looks so good.
Jackie Akerberg
00:54:46.500 - 00:55:21.340
That's one of my favorite recipes. And I think the entire recipe is only 11 ingredients. It's so delicious. And it's. I pan sear the tofu just naked. The tofu not me and so crispy.
And then I make this super simple sauce of, you know, mostly sriracha, a little maple syrup, a little coconut aminos, a splash of rice vinegar and maybe some garlic powder or salt and pepper. I can't remember the fifth ingredient, but it is. Serve that over whatever grain you like.
I chose rice with some fresh cucumber and edamame and green onions and sesame seeds and it's just delicious.
Rip Esselstyn
00:55:21.980 - 00:55:30.790
Yeah. What about another tofu dish that I noticed on your Instagram post was Marry me tofu.
Jackie Akerberg
00:55:31.190 - 00:55:59.670
Yes. Soon I'll be making that every week.
But I, it's a really lovely one and that one combines sun dried tomatoes, garlic and shallot and I mean marry me chicken like had a moment last year all over the Internet and I actually came out with a marry me lentil recipe which is just phenomenal. So I did a marry me tofu and it's crispy hunks of that high protein, super from tofu simmered in this creamy sun dried tomato garlic sauce.
And it's just to die for.
Rip Esselstyn
00:56:00.790 - 00:56:22.730
Help me with tempeh because if tempeh is served correctly or if it's, if it's, I don't know, cook correctly, I should say I love it. But if it's not, I just find it to be really just kind of dry and bitter and just. You've got a dish that you made. It's the sesame tempeh.
Cucumber boats.
Jackie Akerberg
00:56:22.970 - 00:56:23.930
Yes, that's the question.
Rip Esselstyn
00:56:23.930 - 00:56:30.410
I was like, oh my gosh, I want some of that. But is there a. What's your trick to tempeh?
Jackie Akerberg
00:56:30.570 - 00:57:14.830
Yeah, so there's a few things and I, I'm someone that, I love the natural taste of tempeh. Like I fit it into my world very comfortably. But it is a fermented soy product, so it has a little bit more of a bitter or pungent taste.
It also is a lot like meatier and nuttier and more flavorful once you work with it. So I think meat lovers actually tend to love tempeh before they love tofu.
But in that recipe specifically, I cubed it, I added it to a steamer basket and then I added, you know, an inch of water with a splash of rice vinegar and a splash of coconut aminos and steamed it with that in there to infuse the flavor into the tempeh prior to searing it in a pan and then tossing it with the sesame sauce. It was delicious.
Rip Esselstyn
00:57:15.150 - 00:57:17.230
Oh, I want to try that.
Jackie Akerberg
00:57:17.550 - 00:57:18.430
I hope you do.
Rip Esselstyn
00:57:18.990 - 00:57:34.910
So another, another thing that we've been making and I noticed that you are making this too. It is your one pan sweet potato gnocchi bake where you even, even throw the gnocchis on there.
Jackie Akerberg
00:57:35.230 - 00:57:35.710
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn
00:57:35.950 - 00:57:41.630
Right now, unlike you, we don't make our own gnocchi. We buy the store bought stuff.
Jackie Akerberg
00:57:41.630 - 00:57:42.030
Right.
Rip Esselstyn
00:57:42.750 - 00:57:51.570
But even that like work great and then you don't have to worry about, you know, cleaning all the dishes and the pan and it's sticky everywhere.
Jackie Akerberg
00:57:51.970 - 00:58:13.320
Totally. That was pretty revolutionary. I saw someone do that. I think it was plant based plant B A E S. I love her.
And she had a gnocchi recipe where she just threw the, you know, store bought gnocchi on the sheet pan, didn't boil it and they got crispy. And I'm like, I got to try this and it was amazing.
Rip Esselstyn
00:58:13.800 - 00:58:27.960
It works. It works. It really does.
And to your point, right, you just throw it in the oven with all the veggies you want on it and then you just, just throw it in a bowl and you're pretty much good to go. Do you put a sauce on it as well or just eat it like that?
Jackie Akerberg
00:58:28.200 - 00:58:51.030
Yeah. So for that one, it was funny when it came out I was like, this is delicious as is.
So I'd actually already prepared a sauce for the recipe that I was creating. You know, you have these ideas in your head and it was a sun dried tomato roasted red pepper white bean sauce and it was absolutely phenomenal.
But even without the sauce, it was delicious.
Rip Esselstyn
00:58:53.270 - 00:59:04.150
So another thing that my 11 year old daughter Hope loves making, her favorite thing in the world is spring rolls for her birthday. Whenever she has the option of picking what's for dinner, it's spring rolls.
Jackie Akerberg
00:59:04.300 - 00:59:04.980
Yes, me too.
Rip Esselstyn
00:59:04.980 - 00:59:21.820
I noticed, I noticed that you have a crispy rice paper dumpling. Yes, dumplings. And I was like, I literally, I sent texted that to our family channel because I want her to make it tonight.
Jackie Akerberg
00:59:22.140 - 01:00:08.930
Oh my gosh, I hope she does. And something with that one that I love so much.
So I Saute, you know, garlic, ginger, mushrooms, maybe some green onion, and then added the high protein, super firm tofu that sounds like she loves crumbled. And then you're wrapping it. You can either do one rice paper or two. It's a little bit easier to work with if you do two.
But then something that has been really revolutionary for me, it's not a sponsored comment here, but is caraway cookware. Those all natural pans, you don't have to use any oil even for something when you're searing, like rice paper, that would typically stick.
Um, and that's been really cool because otherwise most of those recipes, when you see other people making those rice paper dumplings, they're, they're cooking them in like a half inch of oil and then you're like, why are you even eating plants? Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn
01:00:09.010 - 01:00:42.020
No, my, my sister Jane and my mom Ann are fans of the caraway. We got a caraway pan from my mother for Christmas. It's interesting.
I found that it worked really well for like three months, but if we repeatedly use it on high heat. Yeah, it tends to be a little bit problematic.
So I would tell you, with some of these, these kind of really cleaner non stick pans, like the caraway, you want to be careful that you don't take it too much past medium, medium high.
Jackie Akerberg
01:00:42.420 - 01:00:52.100
Totally. And that's like one thing. Yes. And I actually.
So I don't know if you knew this, but I'm the host of the new Forks Over Knives Mastering Plant based cooking course that came out this year.
Rip Esselstyn
01:00:52.970 - 01:00:54.010
I had no idea.
Jackie Akerberg
01:00:54.090 - 01:01:47.380
Oh, I forgot to mention it. So, yeah, there's like 35 videos, hundreds of recipes, all these courses, and I am the face and person teaching all the courses.
So that was really fun. And when I was out in LA shooting that back in April, Caraway was one of the sponsors.
Again, this is not, I'm not a sponsor to share them, but like, that was my first introduction to Caraway because we had every single piece that they ever, you know, released. And one thing they did with me, they're like, we got to make sure you use this correctly.
Because I'm kind of someone when I get a new pan and it comes with that little book, I'm like, I know how to use a pan, but they're like low heat. You need way less heat than you're used to. You need little or no oil.
They actually talk about that in their little books they give, which I think is really sound. And that was how I learned how to cook with them at a lower heat. Because sometimes you just want that higher heat and you just really don't need it.
Rip Esselstyn
01:01:51.380 - 01:02:10.260
I have a couple more recipe questions for you. This one is. Let me ask you this before I specifically ask you this question.
Do you have any intention over the next five years of opening up your own restaurant?
Jackie Akerberg
01:02:12.530 - 01:03:20.370
Oh gosh, I talk about it all the time. And actually it's funny because everyone I cook for is like, why don't you open a restaurant? This tastes so good. And it's, it's kind of surprising.
Aspen is actually missing. Well, they have. Okay, so Mawa's Kitchen is an incredible breakfast lunch spot that has a ton of vegan options, but it's over by the airport.
And then Spring Cafe is a restaurant in Aspen that's great for breakfast and lunch. Tons and tons of vegan options, but sometimes lacks on flavor. Respectfully. Love you guys.
And then there's a lot of places in town that are just, you know, more meat, cheese, Omnivore forward that have one or two great plant based options on their menu. And I think we're missing a really, really good, healthy breakfast and lunch spot.
However, after I just filled you with all that information, every time I go down the road of doing it and all, all the R and D process, I'm like, wait, I like my life. I like not working at nights and weekends or having employees and I always decide against it.
But it's, I would not say no because it is definitely something I would be so passionate about if all the stars aligned and if I had the right team, I would love to.
Rip Esselstyn
01:03:21.410 - 01:03:39.960
It, it's, it sounds like so much work. It sounds, it sounds like that becomes really your, your baby.
You're everything, you know, I mean, so I would just say be careful, you know, know with eyes wide open what you're walking into.
Jackie Akerberg
01:03:40.200 - 01:04:14.410
Right, Totally.
And that's like, you know, we talked about my parents having the catering company when I was a kid and I vividly remember, I'm like this, you know, four year old little tot and suddenly it's my bedtime and dad's coming down the stairs and I'm like, where's he going? And mom's like, someone didn't show up. He has to go in for the night and do the shift, making all the food.
And between that and every time I go to my dad, I'll be like, okay, dad, new idea, recipe, con or restaurant concept. And he'll listen, he'll entertain it.
And then he plays the best devil's advocate about all the margins and all the lifestyle and he always ends up talking me out of it. So.
Rip Esselstyn
01:04:14.410 - 01:04:21.250
Yeah. Well, let's say you were to open up a Jack Fruitful Kitchen restaurant.
Jackie Akerberg
01:04:21.410 - 01:04:21.890
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn
01:04:21.970 - 01:04:24.930
What would be the first item on the menu?
Jackie Akerberg
01:04:26.050 - 01:04:30.690
It would actually be. And I wonder if you're talking about my creamy sun dried tomato pasta.
Rip Esselstyn
01:04:31.260 - 01:04:37.580
Well, you've mentioned a couple different ones. That's why I'm actually kind of holding you under the flames here.
Jackie Akerberg
01:04:37.660 - 01:04:41.780
Yes, there's a few. It's like I initially said that with that one, and then I created another recipe.
Rip Esselstyn
01:04:41.780 - 01:04:48.140
I can't remember you did you have that creamy miso chickpeas that you're like, oh, this would be the first one.
Jackie Akerberg
01:04:48.460 - 01:04:54.860
It is so good. It is phenomenal. Those two would definitely be on the menu. And a lot of crispy tofu.
Rip Esselstyn
01:04:55.260 - 01:05:09.050
Yeah. Let's. Let's finish with this. How good is your chocolate mousse that has 40 grams of protein per serving? Because I'm a chocolate.
Jackie Akerberg
01:05:09.530 - 01:05:58.240
It is so good. I actually made it for a dinner party the other night. And so when I'm making it for my breakfast, I do add the Aura protein powder. And I love it.
But when I'm just making it for dessert, I usually leave the protein powder out because again, whatever. But it is so silky and thick. And again, I'm gonna use the word velvety and decadent and delicious without having a lick of dairy or refined sugar.
And people love it. Like the other night, being completely transparent, we had a couple over. Eric wanted to make steaks. So I'm like, you do that.
I made my recipe that's going live today. It's a roasted honey nut squash on a whipped maple yogurt sweet sauce. And I made green beans with almonds. And then I made my chocolate mousse.
And all three of those things upstaged the states.
Rip Esselstyn
01:06:00.800 - 01:06:03.120
So are you competitive? Are you competitive?
Jackie Akerberg
01:06:04.080 - 01:06:36.220
You know, it's funny. I'm actually not. And it kind of makes Eric annoyed. Like, if we're playing, we. We play a lot of cards, a lot of rummy cube.
And if he wins, I'm like, oh, good job. That was. That was great. And he's like, no, like, tell me you, like, wanted me to lose. Like, talk shit.
Sorry, Gary, but I'm not necessarily competitive. But in that regard, I just think it's again, circling back to creating an environment where everyone feels welcome and we have different options.
But then introducing them into plant based cuisine alongside it, that they end up loving just as much, if not more is something that brings me very great joy.
Rip Esselstyn
01:06:36.380 - 01:06:43.300
Yeah. So as we wrap this up. And I. I want you to know how fantastic it's been to catch up with you, Jen.
Jackie Akerberg
01:06:43.300 - 01:06:45.420
Yeah. Such a blast. My cheeks hurt from smiling.
Rip Esselstyn
01:06:45.580 - 01:06:59.090
I know. So let's. Again, let's. Let's finish with all the exciting things that you have going on.
So you're leaving, what, 10 days, you're doing a vegan trip to Morocco.
Jackie Akerberg
01:06:59.330 - 01:06:59.890
Yep.
Rip Esselstyn
01:07:00.130 - 01:07:06.610
Okay. And then in Portugal and then from there you're going. Yeah, you're going to Portugal and where else?
Jackie Akerberg
01:07:06.930 - 01:07:13.640
So southern Spain, Sevilla Marbella, and then Porto Douara Valley and then a little blip in Switzerland.
Rip Esselstyn
01:07:14.030 - 01:07:20.190
Wow. And are you doing this by yourself? Are you doing this with others?
Jackie Akerberg
01:07:20.910 - 01:07:31.310
So the first eight days is with the getaway code, that hosted trip, and we have 20 people coming. And then the second two weeks is just Eric and I. Oh, lovely.
Rip Esselstyn
01:07:31.790 - 01:07:41.550
And then you have the protein ebook that's out. And what can people do if they're interested in getting a hold of that?
Jackie Akerberg
01:07:42.200 - 01:07:52.840
Absolutely. If you go to my website, jackfruitful.com, and I bet you guys will conveniently link it here as well and go to shop and click on ebooks.
It's the first one at the top. It's called High protein made Easy.
Rip Esselstyn
01:07:53.160 - 01:08:01.080
Got it. And then are you also. Did you just do an Aspen vegan guide with Chef Chef Bailey Ruskus?
Jackie Akerberg
01:08:01.080 - 01:08:26.230
Heck, yeah. Oh, my gosh. She was. We've been friends for years and her and her husband Steve and their two dogs came out here and we had the best time.
It was so funny. They kept calling me the unofficial mayor of Aspen because I already know everyone and every dog and I.
If I don't know someone, I say hi to everyone and start conversations. So they got a huge kick out of that. And I showed them all over town hikes and that. That guide comes out today as well. So.
Rip Esselstyn
01:08:26.470 - 01:08:34.860
Oh, man. And then this is just an aside. And then you got the forks over knives. You got the forks over knives. Cooking school.
Jackie Akerberg
01:08:34.860 - 01:08:36.300
Mastering plant based cooking course.
Rip Esselstyn
01:08:36.540 - 01:08:59.980
Yeah. So this is completely a non sequitur here.
But I was looking through the Instagram feed of a friend of mine and I saw a photo and I'm like, oh, my God, that's. That's Jackie. And it was you at some breath work event.
Jackie Akerberg
01:09:00.220 - 01:09:04.580
Oh, was it Finian or Peter with Finney?
Rip Esselstyn
01:09:04.580 - 01:09:14.620
The Finian? No, I don't know him at all. I just was like, oh, my God. And then I'm. And then I went down that rabbit hole. But what was that like, that breath work?
Jackie Akerberg
01:09:14.860 - 01:09:18.940
Oh, it was incredible. So it was. Okay, wait, what's the. What's that guy Peter's name? Peter.
Rip Esselstyn
01:09:19.980 - 01:09:22.460
Shoot, I don't know Peter. I know Finney.
Jackie Akerberg
01:09:22.620 - 01:10:19.780
Okay, so Peter is this motivational speaker and author that lives in Aspen. Finian does breath work and like healing workshops. Lives in Aspen, obviously. I live in Aspen.
So we collaborated on this event, fourth of July weekend to have kind of a healthy take. And actually, Eric, my lovely boyfriend, is. He's a real estate broker here in town, but he moonlights as a very talented DJ. So Eric DJ'd.
Finian led this transformational breath work. And I made some vegan treats. But I don't know if you've done something like that, but it was like a.
You would be like, I mean, Finian will teach you the real ways, but. And he has an incredible book called Intentionality.
But the experience your body has, it was like full body tingles, almost like numbness, like all these emotions and the way he guides you through it was very transformative. And then we went and ate a bunch of delicious vegan food afterwards.
Rip Esselstyn
01:10:19.860 - 01:10:38.790
Yeah, I haven't done a lot of that intentional breath work, but our last plan, strong retreat. We had a woman that specialized in that. And to your point, I did three sessions and it was remarkable. Remarkable.
Jackie Akerberg
01:10:38.790 - 01:10:52.760
Love it. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy what your breath can do. And again, just full circle. Your breath, your diet, your. Your movement and your community.
And that's kind of all you need. And dogs. Dogs.
Rip Esselstyn
01:10:55.800 - 01:11:05.480
All right. You know, the last time that I was in Aspen, I went cross country skiing and I did one of those like hut to hut things.
Jackie Akerberg
01:11:05.640 - 01:11:07.160
Oh, you did a hut trip?
Rip Esselstyn
01:11:07.400 - 01:11:08.240
Yeah, yeah.
Jackie Akerberg
01:11:08.240 - 01:11:09.000
No way.
Rip Esselstyn
01:11:09.400 - 01:11:13.780
Like, this was like 1990, like 5.
Jackie Akerberg
01:11:14.420 - 01:11:17.460
Like one of the 10th Mountain Division huts on the back of Ajax Mountain.
Rip Esselstyn
01:11:17.700 - 01:11:19.140
Exactly, right, Exactly.
Jackie Akerberg
01:11:19.140 - 01:11:19.940
That's so cool.
Rip Esselstyn
01:11:20.020 - 01:11:23.540
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, well, we need to get.
Jackie Akerberg
01:11:23.540 - 01:11:26.420
You back out here for one this year we'll be doing a couple, so.
Rip Esselstyn
01:11:26.740 - 01:11:39.220
I would love that. Well, Jackie, thank you so much. This has been spectacular. You look, you're radiating health and beauty and deliciousness.
Jackie Akerberg
01:11:39.540 - 01:11:45.220
Thank you. And same to you. It's always so fun spending time with you and I love being a part of your community. So thank you for having me.
Rip Esselstyn
01:11:45.860 - 01:11:48.580
Can you give me a plant strong fist bump on the way out?
Jackie Akerberg
01:11:48.660 - 01:11:49.380
Heck yeah.
Rip Esselstyn
01:11:49.780 - 01:11:52.100
Boom. Go get them, Jackie.
Jackie Akerberg
01:11:52.660 - 01:11:53.620
Love it. Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn
01:11:55.620 - 01:12:36.360
Jackie is such a powerful reminder that plant based living isn't about being perfect. It's about being present, curious and willing to grow.
Whether it's learning how to cook tofu the right way, finding balance in relationships or building community through food. Jackie shows us how nourishing meals can nourish our lives.
You can follow her at jackfruitkitchen and I'll be sure to put that link up in today's show notes to make it easy to follow until next week. Keep it simple, keep it delicious, and always, always keep it plant strong.
